Bus incident - 83 year old loses legs
Discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/28/fa...
Appalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
Appalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
Bennet said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/28/fa...
Appalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
Appalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
Bennet said:
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh.
Are you being serious...?Edited by Sebring440 on Friday 28th July 14:45
Bennet said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/28/fa...
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh.
Disagree, he fully deserves it, and more. Deliberately closed the door on an old lady who was half on the bus and drove off? Scumbag. How would she 'have previously dodged a fare' anyway? She's a pensioner with a free bus pass. Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh.
IMHO the issue here is that even without a walking stick to get trapped etc, having shut the door they should be making sure that the person is properly clear before pulling away.
They indisputably know someone is at extreme proximity (given they shut the door on them) so should be showing extreme caution. They clearly didn't given the subsquent serious injury.
They indisputably know someone is at extreme proximity (given they shut the door on them) so should be showing extreme caution. They clearly didn't given the subsquent serious injury.
Bennet said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/28/fa...
Appalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
He deliberately shut the doors on herAppalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
He then failed to ensure she was clear of the bus before he drove off
Fully deserved sentence, for a charge he plead guilty to
freedman said:
Bennet said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/28/fa...
Appalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
He deliberately shut the doors on herAppalling and tragic situation.
Hate to say it, but the prison sentence seems very harsh. The actual act of negligence, failing to notice the stuck walking stick, was surely an easy mistake to make. Is that worthy of 27 months? The wrist strap certainly didn't help matters.
The family are obviously playing on the age and "compassion" angle. Has the court done the same?
Poor woman.
He then failed to ensure she was clear of the bus before he drove off
Fully deserved sentence, for a charge he plead guilty to
surveyor said:
My only comment is that there are two sides to the story. Not every 83 year old granny is a sweetheart.
Although the comments on making sure that they are clear of the doors still stand.
There can be no side to this story in which the bus driver is anything but beneath contempt for what he did.Although the comments on making sure that they are clear of the doors still stand.
freedman said:
He deliberately shut the doors on her
He then failed to ensure she was clear of the bus before he drove off
Fully deserved sentence, for a charge he plead guilty to
If she was close enough for her to put her stick in the closing doors there can be no argument about if she was close enough to be seen and so he knew what he was doing and which will be why he plead guilty.He then failed to ensure she was clear of the bus before he drove off
Fully deserved sentence, for a charge he plead guilty to
PorkInsider said:
surveyor said:
My only comment is that there are two sides to the story. Not every 83 year old granny is a sweetheart.
Although the comments on making sure that they are clear of the doors still stand.
There can be no side to this story in which the bus driver is anything but beneath contempt for what he did.Although the comments on making sure that they are clear of the doors still stand.
As said he should still make sure it is safe to pull away.
I'm not looking to die on this particular hill. I think it depends on how you imagine the situation playing out, based on the brief written description.
From the bus driver's point of view, apparently he believed he had closed the door on a putative fare dodger. (I assume that's accepted practice among bus drivers as a means of preventing people from getting on, and probably happens all the time.)
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
We can all agree that (as it turns out) bus drivers need to be aware of such freak possibilities. But can I imagine overlooking those two facts if I'd been him? Honestly, yes...
The odds are, he's a decent enough bloke. Wrong time, wrong place, a poor decision and he's now in prison. A secondary victim of a freak situation. I'm surprised there isn't slightly more sympathy for that point of view. Also, the guilty plea doesn't mean much without knowing his reasoning for that.
Anyway, I can see what others are posting. I'm happy to take on board the general consensus.
Maybe another bus driver will be along in a moment to confirm that they are all trained and drilled in these sorts of things every week and failing to check for it is just incomprehensible.
From the bus driver's point of view, apparently he believed he had closed the door on a putative fare dodger. (I assume that's accepted practice among bus drivers as a means of preventing people from getting on, and probably happens all the time.)
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
We can all agree that (as it turns out) bus drivers need to be aware of such freak possibilities. But can I imagine overlooking those two facts if I'd been him? Honestly, yes...
The odds are, he's a decent enough bloke. Wrong time, wrong place, a poor decision and he's now in prison. A secondary victim of a freak situation. I'm surprised there isn't slightly more sympathy for that point of view. Also, the guilty plea doesn't mean much without knowing his reasoning for that.
Anyway, I can see what others are posting. I'm happy to take on board the general consensus.
Maybe another bus driver will be along in a moment to confirm that they are all trained and drilled in these sorts of things every week and failing to check for it is just incomprehensible.
Edited by Bennet on Friday 28th July 15:38
Bennet said:
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
You may not know many old people, but quite a few walking sticks have wrist straps on them - not a "freak occurrence" at all....and as others have said, he had a mirror, he should have made very sure she was clear before proceeding...I think the phrase is 'duty of care'...
Bennet said:
I'm not looking to die on this particular hill. I think it depends on how you imagine the situation playing out, based on the brief written description.
From the bus driver's point of view, apparently he believed he had closed the door on a putative fare dodger. (I assume that's accepted practice among bus drivers as a means of preventing people from getting on, and probably happens all the time.)
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
We can all agree that (as it turns out) bus drivers need to be aware of such freak possibilities. But can I imagine overlooking those two facts if I'd been him? Honestly, yes...
The odds are, he's a decent enough bloke. Wrong time, wrong place, a poor decision and he's now in prison. A secondary victim of a freak situation. I'm surprised there isn't slightly more sympathy for that point of view. Also, the guilty plea doesn't mean much without knowing his reasoning for that.
Anyway, I can see what others are posting. I'm happy to take on board the general consensus.
Maybe another bus driver will be along in a moment to confirm that they are all trained and drilled in these sorts of things every week and failing to check for it is just incomprehensible.
She was 83, she gets free bus travelFrom the bus driver's point of view, apparently he believed he had closed the door on a putative fare dodger. (I assume that's accepted practice among bus drivers as a means of preventing people from getting on, and probably happens all the time.)
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
We can all agree that (as it turns out) bus drivers need to be aware of such freak possibilities. But can I imagine overlooking those two facts if I'd been him? Honestly, yes...
The odds are, he's a decent enough bloke. Wrong time, wrong place, a poor decision and he's now in prison. A secondary victim of a freak situation. I'm surprised there isn't slightly more sympathy for that point of view. Also, the guilty plea doesn't mean much without knowing his reasoning for that.
Anyway, I can see what others are posting. I'm happy to take on board the general consensus.
Maybe another bus driver will be along in a moment to confirm that they are all trained and drilled in these sorts of things every week and failing to check for it is just incomprehensible.
Edited by Bennet on Friday 28th July 15:38
freedman said:
Bennet said:
I'm not looking to die on this particular hill. I think it depends on how you imagine the situation playing out, based on the brief written description.
From the bus driver's point of view, apparently he believed he had closed the door on a putative fare dodger. (I assume that's accepted practice among bus drivers as a means of preventing people from getting on, and probably happens all the time.)
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
We can all agree that (as it turns out) bus drivers need to be aware of such freak possibilities. But can I imagine overlooking those two facts if I'd been him? Honestly, yes...
The odds are, he's a decent enough bloke. Wrong time, wrong place, a poor decision and he's now in prison. A secondary victim of a freak situation. I'm surprised there isn't slightly more sympathy for that point of view. Also, the guilty plea doesn't mean much without knowing his reasoning for that.
Anyway, I can see what others are posting. I'm happy to take on board the general consensus.
Maybe another bus driver will be along in a moment to confirm that they are all trained and drilled in these sorts of things every week and failing to check for it is just incomprehensible.
She was 83, she gets free bus travelFrom the bus driver's point of view, apparently he believed he had closed the door on a putative fare dodger. (I assume that's accepted practice among bus drivers as a means of preventing people from getting on, and probably happens all the time.)
The fact that the victim had inserted her walking stick into the closing doors and the fact that she was physically attached to that stick amount to something close to a freak occurrence.
We can all agree that (as it turns out) bus drivers need to be aware of such freak possibilities. But can I imagine overlooking those two facts if I'd been him? Honestly, yes...
The odds are, he's a decent enough bloke. Wrong time, wrong place, a poor decision and he's now in prison. A secondary victim of a freak situation. I'm surprised there isn't slightly more sympathy for that point of view. Also, the guilty plea doesn't mean much without knowing his reasoning for that.
Anyway, I can see what others are posting. I'm happy to take on board the general consensus.
Maybe another bus driver will be along in a moment to confirm that they are all trained and drilled in these sorts of things every week and failing to check for it is just incomprehensible.
Edited by Bennet on Friday 28th July 15:38
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