Reclaiming a harvested organ.
Discussion
I was reading and article earlier about human trafficking and it mentioned organ harvesting.
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
e-honda said:
I was reading and article earlier about human trafficking and it mentioned organ harvesting.
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
No. I haven't a clue if it would even be medically possible, but ethically its a firm no. It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
People don't buy organs for the fun of it. They buy them because they're dying and desperate.
So what you're asking is "should a person who recieved an organ from an unwilling or coerced donor be condemned to death to return the organ?".
You might struggle to find Doctors willing to perform an operation with so many risks, and a terminal outcome for at least one of the patients.
Monty Python Life of Brian Part 5 springs to mind...............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0
Rushjob said:
Monty Python Life of Brian Part 5 springs to mind...............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0
As does the film Repo Men: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1053424/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0
Rivenink said:
e-honda said:
I was reading and article earlier about human trafficking and it mentioned organ harvesting.
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
No. I haven't a clue if it would even be medically possible, but ethically its a firm no. It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
People don't buy organs for the fun of it. They buy them because they're dying and desperate.
So what you're asking is "should a person who recieved an organ from an unwilling or coerced donor be condemned to death to return the organ?".
You might struggle to find Doctors willing to perform an operation with so many risks, and a terminal outcome for at least one of the patients.
From a surgical perspective, technically it could be done, although it would be a risky procedure, and the now returned kidney wouldn't actually be going to its anatomically correct location. Explants, i.e., removal of a transplanted kidney, are relatively common and happen when there are issues with rejection, infection etc., but the organ then goes in the bin as it's pretty much dead and useless by this point. If it's still functioning well, there's no reason why it can't be implanted back in the original donor.
The ethics of it would also be much more complicated than that. It doesn't matter how desperate someone is, that does not entitle them to kidnap a human being, subject them to a potentially lethal procedure to steal a vital organ from them, and abandon them in a foreign country with nothing, and no care. That's assuming it's a kidney or partial liver and the donor survives, and not a heart.
The next level of ethics is what if the unwilling donor develops/has developed failure of their remaining kidney? The reason we have 2 kidneys, 2 lungs and lots of length in our gut is to provide us with redundancy and spare capacity should some of it fail. If one of your kidneys has been stolen, you haven't got any reserve left should the other fail. You'd want your other one back pretty sharpish if that was you!
Besides, if they lost their transplanted organ, the recipient of the original stolen kidney wouldn't be [i]condemned to death[i/] or anything as dramatic as that, they'd be going on an appropriate level of renal replacement, almost certainly 3 times a week dialysis at that point, but not death. They'd be no worse off than they were prior to the stolen kidney being implanted. Not a great life, much more restricted, and much shorter life expectancy, but not immediate death. Therefore, they're only being put back in the position they originally were.
However, those possibilities don't mean that every stolen kidney should be returned to its owner of they're tracked down. Surgical procedures carry significant risks, including death, especially complex operations such as transplants.
Would any surgeons even perform the reversal procedure? Well, that would depend on the circumstances. In an unusual scenario where a recipient and an unwilling donor whose kidney has been stolen have both been conclusively identified, and the donor is now in need of their original organ back to survive, I suspect there would be surgical teams (you need a whole team, not just a single surgeon) willing to operate, much like there are doctors who take part in administering lethal injections for capital punishment in USA.
It's an interesting ethical question.
QuickQuack said:
Rivenink said:
e-honda said:
I was reading and article earlier about human trafficking and it mentioned organ harvesting.
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
No. I haven't a clue if it would even be medically possible, but ethically its a firm no. It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
People don't buy organs for the fun of it. They buy them because they're dying and desperate.
So what you're asking is "should a person who recieved an organ from an unwilling or coerced donor be condemned to death to return the organ?".
You might struggle to find Doctors willing to perform an operation with so many risks, and a terminal outcome for at least one of the patients.
On removal of kidneys - transplanted kidney's will only be removed if there is a health risk - a failed transplant is rarely removed. I know people with 4-5 kidneys in their body (original two and transplants over the years) as removing one is no trivial matter and as a failed kidney will shrink, it's not as if the space is required.
QuickQuack said:
Rivenink said:
e-honda said:
I was reading and article earlier about human trafficking and it mentioned organ harvesting.
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
No. I haven't a clue if it would even be medically possible, but ethically its a firm no. It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
People don't buy organs for the fun of it. They buy them because they're dying and desperate.
So what you're asking is "should a person who recieved an organ from an unwilling or coerced donor be condemned to death to return the organ?".
You might struggle to find Doctors willing to perform an operation with so many risks, and a terminal outcome for at least one of the patients.
From a surgical perspective, technically it could be done, although it would be a risky procedure, and the now returned kidney wouldn't actually be going to its anatomically correct location. Explants, i.e., removal of a transplanted kidney, are relatively common and happen when there are issues with rejection, infection etc., but the organ then goes in the bin as it's pretty much dead and useless by this point. If it's still functioning well, there's no reason why it can't be implanted back in the original donor.
The ethics of it would also be much more complicated than that. It doesn't matter how desperate someone is, that does not entitle them to kidnap a human being, subject them to a potentially lethal procedure to steal a vital organ from them, and abandon them in a foreign country with nothing, and no care. That's assuming it's a kidney or partial liver and the donor survives, and not a heart.
The next level of ethics is what if the unwilling donor develops/has developed failure of their remaining kidney? The reason we have 2 kidneys, 2 lungs and lots of length in our gut is to provide us with redundancy and spare capacity should some of it fail. If one of your kidneys has been stolen, you haven't got any reserve left should the other fail. You'd want your other one back pretty sharpish if that was you!
Besides, if they lost their transplanted organ, the recipient of the original stolen kidney wouldn't be [i]condemned to death[i/] or anything as dramatic as that, they'd be going on an appropriate level of renal replacement, almost certainly 3 times a week dialysis at that point, but not death. They'd be no worse off than they were prior to the stolen kidney being implanted. Not a great life, much more restricted, and much shorter life expectancy, but not immediate death. Therefore, they're only being put back in the position they originally were.
However, those possibilities don't mean that every stolen kidney should be returned to its owner of they're tracked down. Surgical procedures carry significant risks, including death, especially complex operations such as transplants.
Would any surgeons even perform the reversal procedure? Well, that would depend on the circumstances. In an unusual scenario where a recipient and an unwilling donor whose kidney has been stolen have both been conclusively identified, and the donor is now in need of their original organ back to survive, I suspect there would be surgical teams (you need a whole team, not just a single surgeon) willing to operate, much like there are doctors who take part in administering lethal injections for capital punishment in USA.
It's an interesting ethical question.
I would add there's potentially three other factors at play too:
1. A recipient of an organ is perhaps unlikely to agree to have it removed, so subjecting them to surgery would bring its own ethical issues.
2. Would many recipients know their organ was obtained illicitly? Going via the black market wouldn't necessarily mean the organ was obtained through coercion or without consent.
3. In many parts of the world where this is likely to occur, there is often a big imbalance in power and wealth between recipient and donor so the likelihood of the latter getting justice is probably quite low.
e-honda said:
I was reading and article earlier about human trafficking and it mentioned organ harvesting.
It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
That is a great question!It made me wonder, if you were the victim where someone took your kidney and the police were able to track down the recipient, could you get it back?
Had there ever been a case of it? If not what would likely happen?
What if it had gone to a young child?
How much would you be willing to accept in compensation?
I'll be interested to see the comments on this topic.
jdw100 said:
That is a great question!
What if it had gone to a young child?
How much would you be willing to accept in compensation?
I'll be interested to see the comments on this topic.
Interesting you ask - what if it had gone to a young child- It leads to the question are some recipients more worthy than others. For example the choice a young child or an adult qualified surgeon ( insert your own preference here). It might be stated that the child has its whole life ahead (providing we don’t die due to climate change or something else. ) Indeed that child might grow up to be a mass murderer or any such nefarious individual. I would hate to be the one who decides the order on the waiting lists for such transplants. Would a young mother or father with children trump a single adult with no dependants. And this is after being “lucky enough” to be a match in the first place. What if it had gone to a young child?
How much would you be willing to accept in compensation?
I'll be interested to see the comments on this topic.
A very complicated and debatable question.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff