Implications if your type of fuel is incorrect on V5

[greg123]

I can't find the legislation requiring you to notify DVLA if you have changed the engine to one of a different type of fuel.

Presuming the vehicle is insured, taxed etc what potential offence is having say 'petrol' on the logbook when it's had a diesel fitted?

This is presuming the insurance knew or it was under a fleet policy, so I guess purely a police/DVLA action question. If anyone has a link to the legislation that would be great.

DVLA state you "should" inform them of any changes. Fine, what if I don't?

Cheers Greg

[normalbloke]

Are you going to share the story?

[Orang]

Your problem could be when selling it where the V5C has the wrong details i.e. fuel type / taxation class and engine serial number.

[98elise]

It depends on why you don't want to tell them.

Is it for financial benefit/tax avoidance etc?

[davek_964]

98elise said:

It depends on why you don't want to tell them.

Is it for financial benefit/tax avoidance etc?

And ULEZ maybe?

[Missy Charm]

greg123 said:

I can't find the legislation requiring you to notify DVLA if you have changed the engine to one of a different type of fuel.

Presuming the vehicle is insured, taxed etc what potential offence is having say 'petrol' on the logbook when it's had a diesel fitted?

This is presuming the insurance knew or it was under a fleet policy, so I guess purely a police/DVLA action question. If anyone has a link to the legislation that would be great.

DVLA state you "should" inform them of any changes. Fine, what if I don't?

Cheers Greg

You either haven't seen the guidance, or haven't read it properly:

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registra...

You are required to notify the DVLA of all changes of engine number, so that the logbook can be updated. That includes a like for like change such as a reconditioned unit or, as in your case, a completely new type of engine. The guidance doesn't say 'should', it says 'must'.

Whilst you can get insurance and an MOT test with a dud logbook, i.e. one that doesn't accurately reflect changes such as a new engine, you risk penalties from the DVLA if they find out*. The worst case scenario is withdrawal of the registration document entirely, followed by a demand that the car is submitted for an IVA test and then, potentially, issuance of a 'Q' plate. It's up to them how much they wish to muck you about, but be wary of the fact that they can.

• by means of VOSA check, the police or even a bloody-minded individual who knows your wheels aren't kosher.

[davek_964]

Missy Charm said:

You either haven't seen the guidance, or haven't read it properly:

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registra...

You are required to notify the DVLA of all changes of engine number, so that the logbook can be updated. That includes a like for like change such as a reconditioned unit or, as in your case, a completely new type of engine. The guidance doesn't say 'should', it says 'must'.

I don't think that says what you think it does.

It says that if you change the engine - and hence notify DVLA of the changed engine - you must provide evidence that you did so. That's not quite the same as saying you must notify them of the engine change (although I agree you should - and if you must prove you did in fact change the engine, and are not providing false information that you did - it does logically follow that if you do change the engine, you must tell them)

Edited by davek_964 on Wednesday 2nd August 13:10

[greg123]

I have read it. Several points, I'm not asking about engine number. I'm asking about fuel type. You say they could mess me around, fine, DVLA or police can only 'mess me around' within the scope of the penalties prescribed in the legislation that cover this.

That's what I am asking here, if anyone knows the legislation pertaining to updating the DVLA on V5 details SPECIFICALLY fuel type.

Cheers :-)

[Missy Charm]

davek_964 said:

I don't think that says what you think it does.

It says that if you change the engine - and hence notify DVLA of the changed engine - you must provide evidence that you did so. That's not quite the same as saying you must notify them of the engine change (although I agree you should - and if you must prove you did in fact change the engine, and are not providing false information that you did - it does logically follow that if you do change the engine, you must tell them)

Edited by davek_964 on Wednesday 2nd August 13:10

Errm... If you go and have a nice lie down, I'll bring you a cup of tea

[greg123]

davek_964 said:

Missy Charm said:

You either haven't seen the guidance, or haven't read it properly:

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registra...

You are required to notify the DVLA of all changes of engine number, so that the logbook can be updated. That includes a like for like change such as a reconditioned unit or, as in your case, a completely new type of engine. The guidance doesn't say 'should', it says 'must'.

I don't think that says what you think it does.

It says that if you change the engine - and hence notify DVLA of the changed engine - you must provide evidence that you did so. That's not quite the same as saying you must notify them of the engine change (although I agree you should - and if you must prove you did in fact change the engine, and are not providing false information that you did - it does logically follow that if you do change the engine, you must tell them)

Edited by davek_964 on Wednesday 2nd August 13:10

Also I'm not talking about notifying of an engine change, but fuel type change. However you raise an interesting point as commonly when a logbook doesn't show the right fuel, it's logical it's not reflecting the current engine.

[greg123]

normalbloke said:

Are you going to share the story?

No story, just knew of such a vehicle and mused I couldn't work out if it was a tangible offence or not

[greg123]

Orang said:

Your problem could be when selling it where the V5C has the wrong details i.e. fuel type / taxation class and engine serial number.

Understand, that's not what I'm asking though

[greg123]

98elise said:

It depends on why you don't want to tell them.

Is it for financial benefit/tax avoidance etc?

I think that would be some much wider fraud type thing I don't think appropriate in this case, bit like if you fit illegal HID lights they don't go into why, if you wanted to use them for illegal hunting, it's a fixed scope of penalty and either has a defined consequence or doesn't.

[greg123]

davek_964 said:

98elise said:

It depends on why you don't want to tell them.

Is it for financial benefit/tax avoidance etc?

And ULEZ maybe?

That's interesting isn't it!

[Missy Charm]

greg123 said:

I have read it. Several points, I'm not asking about engine number. I'm asking about fuel type. You say they could mess me around, fine, DVLA or police can only 'mess me around' within the scope of the penalties prescribed in the legislation that cover this.

That's what I am asking here, if anyone knows the legislation pertaining to updating the DVLA on V5 details SPECIFICALLY fuel type.

Cheers :-)

Are you asking what would happen, then, if an existing petrol engine were to be torn to pieces and an entirely new diesel unit built up using the same block with the same engine number? There may not be legislation to cover that specific scenario, but then there may not need to be on the basis that said scenario is vanishingly unlikely. If it came about and were tested in court, it is likely that existing DVLA provisions would be extended.

Have you such a conversion in mind?

[greg123]

Missy Charm said:

Are you asking what would happen, then, if an existing petrol engine were to be torn to pieces and an entirely new diesel unit built up using the same block with the same engine number? There may not be legislation to cover that specific scenario, but then there may not need to be on the basis that said scenario is vanishingly unlikely. If it came about and were tested in court, it is likely that existing DVLA provisions would be extended.

Have you such a conversion in mind?

Understand, I guess as it's hypothetical I'm really asking for the legislation/consequence that cover updating V5 specific to the vehicle fuel type.

For a hypothetical scenario, let's say you find a camper on auto trader was petrol now had a diesel fitted. Scenario 1) engine number and cc updated but for some reason fuel type still says petrol. Scenario 2) whoever fitted the engine just didn't update DVLA.

I'm not so much after a debate on the scenarios, but the nuts and bolts of any possible legal consequences and the legislation that defines those consequences.

We are not talking about not updating keeper details, or a stolen vehicle etc. All legit, specific to updating DVLA about fuel type and possibly engine details only. There had to be legislation to cover this, or it's just a request to inform them not law.

[IJWS15]

Is this going to create issues at MOT time? Tester looks up vehicle details and sees it should be for example petrol and (i) tries to test a diesel as a petrol car or (2) refuses to test the vehicle because it is obviously not kosher.

[MustangGT]

davek_964 said:

I don't think that says what you think it does.

I think it does:

DVLA said:

Change vehicle details on a V5C registration certificate (log book)
Contents
When you need to update your V5C
What evidence to give
How to update your V5C
What evidence to give
You must give DVLA evidence or written confirmation if you make any of the following changes to your vehicle. Your V5C update will be rejected if you do not.

Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)
You need to provide one of the following:

a receipt for the replacement engine that includes the engine number and cylinder capacity
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)

Change of fuel type
You need to provide evidence if:

your existing engine is converted – the confirmation must be on headed paper from the garage that did the work

a new engine is fitted – provide the receipt as confirmation

[greg123]

IJWS15 said:

Is this going to create issues at MOT time? Tester looks up vehicle details and sees it should be for example petrol and (i) tries to test a diesel as a petrol car or (2) refuses to test the vehicle because it is obviously not kosher.

That's outside the remit of my question, but talking to one tester, no, he would simply test it as the fuel it was presented running on.

[greg123]

MustangGT said:

I think it does:

DVLA said:

You must give DVLA evidence or written confirmation if you make any of the following changes to your vehicle. Your V5C update will be rejected if you do not.

Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)
You need to provide one of the following:

a receipt for the replacement engine that includes the engine number and cylinder capacity
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)

Change of fuel type
You need to provide evidence if:

your existing engine is converted – the confirmation must be on headed paper from the garage that did the work

a new engine is fitted – provide the receipt as confirmation

'you must' under what legislation? There must be some.