PPL PRS Music Licence
Discussion
I'm sure many here have had dealings with these and I appreciate the need for such a licence; however, what I'm struggling with is the section of their terms that says:
You agree to grant permission to Us, as well as Our duly-authorised representatives, to enter and inspect the Premises during business or opening hours for the purposes of checking the Use Details and/or (where reasonable to do so) otherwise checking Your compliance with this Agreement. Without affecting our rights under this Agreement, where we carry out an inspection pursuant to this clause, we will do so in accordance with our obligations under Our Code of Conduct.
So, they can pop in anytime during office hours and nominate any representative they choose?
Has anyone had a visit from these?
You agree to grant permission to Us, as well as Our duly-authorised representatives, to enter and inspect the Premises during business or opening hours for the purposes of checking the Use Details and/or (where reasonable to do so) otherwise checking Your compliance with this Agreement. Without affecting our rights under this Agreement, where we carry out an inspection pursuant to this clause, we will do so in accordance with our obligations under Our Code of Conduct.
So, they can pop in anytime during office hours and nominate any representative they choose?
Has anyone had a visit from these?
I am no lawyer, but it doesn't sound particularly onerous to me. They are entitled to check that you're acting in accordance with the rules - how else can they do that other than politely ask to enter your premises within reasonable opening hours? They can't use one of those funny vans the TV Licencing people used to have (remember them?).
My in-laws used to run a pub with such a licence and never got a visit in the 10 years they were in charge.
My in-laws used to run a pub with such a licence and never got a visit in the 10 years they were in charge.
I have a large warehouse and don't have any music on site at all.
Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to yet I still get hounded by these idiots and they still try to blag their way in by saying they are allowed to come in to inspect.
Lucky we only run a three person crew here and all of us know to tell them to go away and not waste our time.
But they still try, and they phone us to hassle us. Its like they cant believe we don't have a radio on.
One told me that if I can hear next doors radio I need a licence.
Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to yet I still get hounded by these idiots and they still try to blag their way in by saying they are allowed to come in to inspect.
Lucky we only run a three person crew here and all of us know to tell them to go away and not waste our time.
But they still try, and they phone us to hassle us. Its like they cant believe we don't have a radio on.
One told me that if I can hear next doors radio I need a licence.
I had fun with those guys a few years ago. It went something like this:
They called me up, and said they were from the PRS, and did I know what they did.
"Yes"
"Do you know that if you have on hold music, you need to have a licence."
"Yes, I do"
"Do you have on hold music?"
"Yes, we do"
"Do you have a licence from us?"
"No, we don't"
I could imagine the "kerching" that he must've been thinking.
"We don't need one'
"Why do you think you don't need one"
"Because we don't"
"But you've admitted that you've got on hold music, and legally you must have a licence from us"
"No, we don't need to get a licence from you"
"And why not?"
"Because I wrote the music and I'm letting the company use it"
"Oh. I guess you don't need to pay then"
They called me up, and said they were from the PRS, and did I know what they did.
"Yes"
"Do you know that if you have on hold music, you need to have a licence."
"Yes, I do"
"Do you have on hold music?"
"Yes, we do"
"Do you have a licence from us?"
"No, we don't"
I could imagine the "kerching" that he must've been thinking.
"We don't need one'
"Why do you think you don't need one"
"Because we don't"
"But you've admitted that you've got on hold music, and legally you must have a licence from us"
"No, we don't need to get a licence from you"
"And why not?"
"Because I wrote the music and I'm letting the company use it"
"Oh. I guess you don't need to pay then"
Getragdogleg said:
I have a large warehouse and don't have any music on site at all.
Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to
Just on this specific part of your post you are missing the point to be fair - for the purposes of PRS licence it irrelevant that the public don't have access to your building. Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to
48k said:
Getragdogleg said:
I have a large warehouse and don't have any music on site at all.
Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to
Just on this specific part of your post you are missing the point to be fair - for the purposes of PRS licence it irrelevant that the public don't have access to your building. Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to
It's moot anyway because I hate music or radio when I'm working but are you saying that if I had music on and its just me and my two employees in the warehouse I need a PRS licence ?
Getragdogleg said:
48k said:
Getragdogleg said:
I have a large warehouse and don't have any music on site at all.
Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to
Just on this specific part of your post you are missing the point to be fair - for the purposes of PRS licence it irrelevant that the public don't have access to your building. Its not public, its a private business that the public don't have access to
It's moot anyway because I hate music or radio when I'm working but are you saying that if I had music on and its just me and my two employees in the warehouse I need a PRS licence ?
Broadly speaking, "public performance" means "anywhere outside a domestic setting".
So warehouses, offices etc even if it is only employees that hear the music, could need a licence.
PPL and PRS joined forces so there is only one licence to cover both now. There's info here: https://pplprs.co.uk/themusiclicence/sectors/
21TonyK said:
I was under the impression PRS was not a legal requirement as you cannot be fined for not having one but potentially sued by PRS acting on behalf of the artists they represent. Hence if you play music by an artist who does not subscribe to PRS there is no need (as they suggest).
Your impression is incorrect - the legal backing for PPL PRS is provided by the Copyright, Designs & Patents Act and they have and will issue fines.Eg. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/...
48k said:
21TonyK said:
I was under the impression PRS was not a legal requirement as you cannot be fined for not having one but potentially sued by PRS acting on behalf of the artists they represent. Hence if you play music by an artist who does not subscribe to PRS there is no need (as they suggest).
Your impression is incorrect - the legal backing for PPL PRS is provided by the Copyright, Designs & Patents Act and they have and will issue fines.Eg. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/...
"Is it a legal requirement to have a PRS licence?
The licence you need is called 'TheMusicLicence'. You can also contact PPL PRS to check if you need a licence and get a quote. You're infringing copyright if you play live or recorded music in public without a licence. You could be sued for damages."
Just making the point that as I understand it PRS have no right to enter premises or half the things they seem to suggest to people.
Edited by 21TonyK on Wednesday 23 August 18:28
21TonyK said:
48k said:
21TonyK said:
I was under the impression PRS was not a legal requirement as you cannot be fined for not having one but potentially sued by PRS acting on behalf of the artists they represent. Hence if you play music by an artist who does not subscribe to PRS there is no need (as they suggest).
Your impression is incorrect - the legal backing for PPL PRS is provided by the Copyright, Designs & Patents Act and they have and will issue fines.Eg. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/...
"Is it a legal requirement to have a PRS licence?
The licence you need is called 'TheMusicLicence'. You can also contact PPL PRS to check if you need a licence and get a quote. You're infringing copyright if you play live or recorded music in public without a licence. You could be sued for damages."
Just making the point that as I understand it PRS have no right to enter premises or half the things they seem to suggest to people.
Edited by 21TonyK on Wednesday 23 August 18:28
The only "confusion" from that news story is that they talk about PRS and PPL separately, as it is from a few years ago. Since then they joined forces to create a single licence called TheMusicLicence. I think you can even buy a licence online. Things have certainly come on a long way since the days I used to sit in a BBC radio studio with a stopwatch and a triplet form from PPL to fill in the details from the record label once it had been played on air, fax the white copy to the mothership, file the yellow copy in the studio, do something I now forget with the pink copy....
Edit: Apologies Tony it looks like we are both right - they do have legal backing but the enforcement is by suing for damages.
https://www.gov.uk/licence-to-play-live-or-recorde...
Edited by 48k on Thursday 24th August 07:32
Its turned into an interesting thread ! Thanks for the input 48K !
How would I stand if a had a Trade turn up to do maintenance on my electrics and he had a radio that he put on while he worked for a few hours ?
Again, its purely hypothetical as I would politely ask he didn't even turn it on, none of us miss the radio anyway and anyone who does odd days often comments on how nice and peaceful it is in our place.
How would I stand if a had a Trade turn up to do maintenance on my electrics and he had a radio that he put on while he worked for a few hours ?
Again, its purely hypothetical as I would politely ask he didn't even turn it on, none of us miss the radio anyway and anyone who does odd days often comments on how nice and peaceful it is in our place.
Getragdogleg said:
Its turned into an interesting thread ! Thanks for the input 48K !
How would I stand if a had a Trade turn up to do maintenance on my electrics and he had a radio that he put on while he worked for a few hours ?
Again, its purely hypothetical as I would politely ask he didn't even turn it on, none of us miss the radio anyway and anyone who does odd days often comments on how nice and peaceful it is in our place.
My guess would be that the licencing is the tradesperson's responsibility, it's not the fault of the business if a tradesperson visits and puts their own radio on whilst they do a job on the business premises. But interestingly, if the tradesperson visited a domestic customer, their radio is not publicly performing the commercial music. So what do they do? Do they have to figure out what percentage of their customers over a year are domestic and get some sort of pro rata rate? I'm sure as soon as the tradesperson sticks their head above the parapet with PRS PPL they will be tucked up with an annual licence in some way shape or form.How would I stand if a had a Trade turn up to do maintenance on my electrics and he had a radio that he put on while he worked for a few hours ?
Again, its purely hypothetical as I would politely ask he didn't even turn it on, none of us miss the radio anyway and anyone who does odd days often comments on how nice and peaceful it is in our place.
48k said:
Getragdogleg said:
Its turned into an interesting thread ! Thanks for the input 48K !
How would I stand if a had a Trade turn up to do maintenance on my electrics and he had a radio that he put on while he worked for a few hours ?
Again, its purely hypothetical as I would politely ask he didn't even turn it on, none of us miss the radio anyway and anyone who does odd days often comments on how nice and peaceful it is in our place.
My guess would be that the licencing is the tradesperson's responsibility, it's not the fault of the business if a tradesperson visits and puts their own radio on whilst they do a job on the business premises. But interestingly, if the tradesperson visited a domestic customer, their radio is not publicly performing the commercial music. So what do they do? Do they have to figure out what percentage of their customers over a year are domestic and get some sort of pro rata rate? I'm sure as soon as the tradesperson sticks their head above the parapet with PRS PPL they will be tucked up with an annual licence in some way shape or form.How would I stand if a had a Trade turn up to do maintenance on my electrics and he had a radio that he put on while he worked for a few hours ?
Again, its purely hypothetical as I would politely ask he didn't even turn it on, none of us miss the radio anyway and anyone who does odd days often comments on how nice and peaceful it is in our place.
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