Am I in the wrong here? PCN
Discussion
I parked in a station car park where the charges where (as I thought) £3 for 3 hours or £4 all day. I paid for a £4 all day ticket using the app.
Got back to the car to find a parking ticket. (PCN).
Turn's out I'd missed the fact that the £4 ticket was only for users of the station.
However here's the kicker. The PCN was issued 2 hours 54 minutes after the time I parked (as shown on the app).
I returned to the car a couple of minutes later - actually saw and spoke with the enforcement officer.
So although I paid for an all day ticket costing £4 and only available to station users I didn't make use of it. I only stayed the 3 hours allowable to non station users.
So I obviously appealed.
Just had the result back - appeal rejected with the following...
"The notes made by the Civil Enforcement Officer indicate that all windows were checked and although a transaction was found whilst checking the RingGo service you are unable to stay in this car park for longer than three hours unless you are a customer of the XXXXX.
Only customers of the XXXXX may remain in this short stay car park for over three hours provided a XXXX voucher is displayed in the vehicle in addition to either an over-three-hour pay and display ticket/RingGo session has been obtained. This is clearly stated on the signage in the car park.
It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure their vehicle is parked fully in compliance with the regulations in place at all times.
I have considered your appeal in detail but feel that the charge was correctly issued and should still be paid."
Am I going mad here or have I missed something?
They're being pedantic in that the 4-hour rail user ticket is different to a 3-hour non-rail user ticket...and that 4-hour rail user ticket is only valid if you USE THE TRAIN and STAY LONGER than 3 hours.
You did neither, so the ticket is invalid...despite it costing £1 more than a ticket which would have covered your stay.
However, they don't mention that in their decision, so I'd re-appeal based on their decision claiming you stayed for over 3 hours when you have proof that you didn't.
You did neither, so the ticket is invalid...despite it costing £1 more than a ticket which would have covered your stay.
However, they don't mention that in their decision, so I'd re-appeal based on their decision claiming you stayed for over 3 hours when you have proof that you didn't.
Long time lurker and current enforcement officer here.
I'm afraid you're most likely stuffed there.
The fact you bought the ticket which needs to be supported with a voucher which you didn't obtain is enough. The time used is irrelevant, if you had purchased the £4 ticket and had a voucher making it legal that's it you're all good, but you didn't.
Even without knowing where this occured, I'd wager that this has happened previously, gone hrough the appeals process and been found in favour of the operator, hence the officer issuing to you.
I'm afraid you're most likely stuffed there.
The fact you bought the ticket which needs to be supported with a voucher which you didn't obtain is enough. The time used is irrelevant, if you had purchased the £4 ticket and had a voucher making it legal that's it you're all good, but you didn't.
Even without knowing where this occured, I'd wager that this has happened previously, gone hrough the appeals process and been found in favour of the operator, hence the officer issuing to you.
I was going to ask the issuing firm but I think you dropped it in there.
Someone said, reappeal. You can't. Only one appeal is allowed.
Appealing to POPLA will be a waste of time as they simply rule on the terms and it looks like you didn't meet them.
I'm in the dock at the moment because I didn't meet the term of paying within 10 minutes of arrival. Lets just say I encountered problems in making payment but paid in full for the time I was in the car park before leaving. They won't accept that. They suffered no financial loss. They want a further sum. So far they have passed it on to 3 debt collection agencies and now a firm of solicitors (over a period of 18months).
I tell each of them the same. No debt exists and if your client thinks so then proceed to MCOL
Someone said, reappeal. You can't. Only one appeal is allowed.
Appealing to POPLA will be a waste of time as they simply rule on the terms and it looks like you didn't meet them.
I'm in the dock at the moment because I didn't meet the term of paying within 10 minutes of arrival. Lets just say I encountered problems in making payment but paid in full for the time I was in the car park before leaving. They won't accept that. They suffered no financial loss. They want a further sum. So far they have passed it on to 3 debt collection agencies and now a firm of solicitors (over a period of 18months).
I tell each of them the same. No debt exists and if your client thinks so then proceed to MCOL
Sir Bagalot said:
I was going to ask the issuing firm but I think you dropped it in there.
Someone said, reappeal. You can't. Only one appeal is allowed.
Appealing to POPLA will be a waste of time as they simply rule on the terms and it looks like you didn't meet them.
I'm in the dock at the moment because I didn't meet the term of paying within 10 minutes of arrival. Lets just say I encountered problems in making payment but paid in full for the time I was in the car park before leaving. They won't accept that. They suffered no financial loss. They want a further sum. So far they have passed it on to 3 debt collection agencies and now a firm of solicitors (over a period of 18months).
I tell each of them the same. No debt exists and if your client thinks so then proceed to MCOL
I can appeal again according to the info they sent with their decision.Someone said, reappeal. You can't. Only one appeal is allowed.
Appealing to POPLA will be a waste of time as they simply rule on the terms and it looks like you didn't meet them.
I'm in the dock at the moment because I didn't meet the term of paying within 10 minutes of arrival. Lets just say I encountered problems in making payment but paid in full for the time I was in the car park before leaving. They won't accept that. They suffered no financial loss. They want a further sum. So far they have passed it on to 3 debt collection agencies and now a firm of solicitors (over a period of 18months).
I tell each of them the same. No debt exists and if your client thinks so then proceed to MCOL
Its a bit complex.
Firstly don't pay the ticket.
Wait for them to contact me with a Notice to Owner (NtO) via the DVLA.
"Upon receipt of the NtO, the recipient may either pay the PCN or make a formal representation to the Council. We will consider any representations that are made even where they may have been a previous rejection of challenge. If the representations are accepted we will cancel the PCN and/or NtO, as appropriate."
Even if that fails...
"If the representation is not accepted a Notice of Rejection will be issued with details of how to appeal to a parking adjudicator, the independent Traffic Penalty Tribunal www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk. They will be able to consider whether an appellant's case falls within any of the statutory grounds of appeal. Further details of the statutory appeals process can be found on the website www.patrol-uk.info"
Their rejection today talks only of overstaying the 3 hours which I did not do and I have time on my hands so I think I'll keep the appeal process going for as long as possible. Nothing to lose.
I read situations like this almost every day.
Is this really what the UK has become?
The parking companies are so greedy that although they have had their £4, and the user stayed less than 3 hours, because they didn’t get a “voucher” as well as paying - they issue a large fine.
Holy Moly !
This country needs to take a long hard look at itself - this is a ridiculous way to live.
Every car park I visit has its own weird and wonderful rules, usually written in small print on signs way up in the air which makes them extremely hard to read, let alone understand.
It seems like the constantly changing speed limits on roads these days - it’s deliberate entrapment to raise money from fines.
Heaven help us.
Is this really what the UK has become?
The parking companies are so greedy that although they have had their £4, and the user stayed less than 3 hours, because they didn’t get a “voucher” as well as paying - they issue a large fine.
Holy Moly !
This country needs to take a long hard look at itself - this is a ridiculous way to live.
Every car park I visit has its own weird and wonderful rules, usually written in small print on signs way up in the air which makes them extremely hard to read, let alone understand.
It seems like the constantly changing speed limits on roads these days - it’s deliberate entrapment to raise money from fines.
Heaven help us.
Canon_Fodder said:
OP don't bother with the popla rubbish that's a total shill
have your day in Court
Rhubarb! I’ve had 5 PEye tickets, appealed every one costing them at least £135 plus their time. Every time I’ve wonhave your day in Court
Better to spend an hour on research Than having a half day hanging around a court
Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 23 August 23:18
elanfan said:
Rhubarb! I’ve had 5 PEye tickets, appealed every one costing them at least £135 plus their time. Every time I’ve won
Better to spend an hour on research Than having a half day hanging around a court
That’s the type of response these companies need. Well done ! Better to spend an hour on research Than having a half day hanging around a court
Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 23 August 23:18
i4got said:
You have to get a voucher from the station and put it in your window to show you're a station user.
Not sure how this will work when they close all the ticket offices. What happens if you've got a digital ticket? The whole thing sounds like a faff. The far side of our local station's car park is a good 5 minute walk to the station so you'd have to park, go to the station to get the ticket and voucher, walk back to the car to display the voucher, then walk back to the station to catch the train.It’s time these parking cowboys were regulated as they’re taking the p*ss with their own set of rules that they literally make up as they go along, just so someone sat elsewhere can make a financial profit from the land here.
The most ridiculous case was when I parked in one carpark, went to one shop and then went to another shop on the opposite side of the road. I got an invoice cunningly disguised as a fine (to trick vulnerable people into paying), for “walking out of the carpark”. Is there a law against walking across a road? In todays environmentally friendly and ultra low emission society do they honestly expect me to drive my car across the width of the road?
The most ridiculous case was when I parked in one carpark, went to one shop and then went to another shop on the opposite side of the road. I got an invoice cunningly disguised as a fine (to trick vulnerable people into paying), for “walking out of the carpark”. Is there a law against walking across a road? In todays environmentally friendly and ultra low emission society do they honestly expect me to drive my car across the width of the road?
Edited by Mr Miata on Thursday 24th August 12:20
i4got said:
Sir Bagalot said:
OP, was this a Council issued ticket? Or a Private parking firm issued one?
Council - Winchester City Council.
Honestly, what a honey trap. How £100 is representative of their 'loss' I'll never know. Especially as Mr Musk is presumably leasing those spaces off them anyway! b
ds 
At least with a council ticket you will have a fair appeals process, you may not win but it will be fair! The aforementioned Parking Eye on the other hand, are a bunch of tossers.
OP they seem to be saying that the £4 ticket is only valid if accompanied by the 'station user voucher'.
So - they seem to be saying - it's not relevant that you were there under 3 hours, their contention is that your parking session was invalid, full stop.
It sounds unreasonable (at best) to me, but if they persist with their action your only defence will be to let a judge decide if the (their) appeals process has been exhausted
So - they seem to be saying - it's not relevant that you were there under 3 hours, their contention is that your parking session was invalid, full stop.
It sounds unreasonable (at best) to me, but if they persist with their action your only defence will be to let a judge decide if the (their) appeals process has been exhausted
Edited by Canon_Fodder on Friday 25th August 11:30
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