Points v ban for speeding : which hurts least?
Discussion
My daughter (and yes it really is my daughter) has recently got an NIP for 97 mph on the M6 (at 8 in the morning when it was apparently "empty" which I seriously doubt). Guidelines suggest 4-6 points and a fine, but ban of 7-28 days is possible. I have PM'd agtlaw who has kindly answered that he would expect 5 points and the fine, ban unlikely: will be SJPN and best to plead guilty, apologise and don't try to offer mitigation (as there is none)
Looking through various posts in SPL many posters favour a short ban rather that points, which has always puzzled me. Is the collective experience that short bans do not load insurance insurance in the same way as points? If you say you have points for speeding many would respond "join the club", but if you say "I was banned for speeding" it would be more like "you should slow down then you lunatic"
I think the 5 points will be better for getting her (and it really is her) to slow down where she should do - she was awarded a SAC only about this time last year.
Full disclosure: I have had 3 points some years ago, and an SAC maybe 10 years ago
THIS. IS. MY. DAUGHTER. NOT. ME.
Over to you ...
Looking through various posts in SPL many posters favour a short ban rather that points, which has always puzzled me. Is the collective experience that short bans do not load insurance insurance in the same way as points? If you say you have points for speeding many would respond "join the club", but if you say "I was banned for speeding" it would be more like "you should slow down then you lunatic"
I think the 5 points will be better for getting her (and it really is her) to slow down where she should do - she was awarded a SAC only about this time last year.
Full disclosure: I have had 3 points some years ago, and an SAC maybe 10 years ago
THIS. IS. MY. DAUGHTER. NOT. ME.
Over to you ...
I would take the 5 points. Unless you are speeding all the time and have no skills of observation it should be easy to avoid picking up more than 6 points in the next few years. I have 4 decades of driving with no points. It hasn't all been below the speed limit. There is a time and place though. I am lucky that I have quiet highland roads within an hour from home.
QBee said:
My immediate reaction was "what will the insurers think at renewal time?"
Does the PH collective know how the premium differs between a short ban and 6 points?
When I looked into this faced with a similar issue, I did everything I could to avoid a ban.Does the PH collective know how the premium differs between a short ban and 6 points?
Check quotes online with a ban and without. That will tell you all you need to know.
QBee said:
My immediate reaction was "what will the insurers think at renewal time?"
Does the PH collective know how the premium differs between a short ban and 6 points?
I don't know but I was surprised that having got another 3 points for speeding this year (6 in total now), the insurer said my premium for the year remained unchanged despite a further 3 points. Does the PH collective know how the premium differs between a short ban and 6 points?
irc said:
I would take the 5 points. Unless you are speeding all the time and have no skills of observation it should be easy to avoid picking up more than 6 points in the next few years. I have 4 decades of driving with no points. It hasn't all been below the speed limit. There is a time and place though. I am lucky that I have quiet highland roads within an hour from home.
There are other ways to collect points beside speeding though….. mostly requiring you to do something silly but also some easy mistakes.drjhill said:
My daughter (and yes it really is my daughter) has recently got an NIP for 97 mph on the M6 (at 8 in the morning when it was apparently "empty" which I seriously doubt). Guidelines suggest 4-6 points and a fine, but ban of 7-28 days is possible. I have PM'd agtlaw who has kindly answered that he would expect 5 points and the fine, ban unlikely: will be SJPN and best to plead guilty, apologise and don't try to offer mitigation (as there is none)
Looking through various posts in SPL many posters favour a short ban rather that points, which has always puzzled me. Is the collective experience that short bans do not load insurance insurance in the same way as points? If you say you have points for speeding many would respond "join the club", but if you say "I was banned for speeding" it would be more like "you should slow down then you lunatic"
I think the 5 points will be better for getting her (and it really is her) to slow down where she should do - she was awarded a SAC only about this time last year.
Full disclosure: I have had 3 points some years ago, and an SAC maybe 10 years ago
THIS. IS. MY. DAUGHTER. NOT. ME.
Over to you ...
It's you, isn't it?Looking through various posts in SPL many posters favour a short ban rather that points, which has always puzzled me. Is the collective experience that short bans do not load insurance insurance in the same way as points? If you say you have points for speeding many would respond "join the club", but if you say "I was banned for speeding" it would be more like "you should slow down then you lunatic"
I think the 5 points will be better for getting her (and it really is her) to slow down where she should do - she was awarded a SAC only about this time last year.
Full disclosure: I have had 3 points some years ago, and an SAC maybe 10 years ago
THIS. IS. MY. DAUGHTER. NOT. ME.
Over to you ...
Having known a few bike riding mates who've either been less lucky than me or ride faster, it seems quite random how insurance companies treat the odd rash of points or a ban. Maybe some of my 'data' is a bit 'dated' now, it's not 2002 anymore and attitudes have changed.
I have heard of people applying for jobs and facing the question 'have you ever been banned from driving?'
Not just jobs which include driving either!
At one phase in my life, I rode an eff-off superbike, because I thought I could afford to be banned, I could use the train for a bit if I got caught.
A good friend got banned from driving, realised he was buggered work-wise, went ex-pat for a lot of money and has not looked back.
You must, as the old man said, play the hand that is dealt you.
I have heard of people applying for jobs and facing the question 'have you ever been banned from driving?'
Not just jobs which include driving either!
At one phase in my life, I rode an eff-off superbike, because I thought I could afford to be banned, I could use the train for a bit if I got caught.
A good friend got banned from driving, realised he was buggered work-wise, went ex-pat for a lot of money and has not looked back.
You must, as the old man said, play the hand that is dealt you.
R6tty said:
As suggested earlier in the thread, you don't get a choice. In fact I know one person whose solicitor said his client would rather get a bigger fine than a long ban. Got a really long ban.
Which suggests that in a perverse manner, you do get a choice. Tell them what you would "prefer" as punishment to make sure you don't get that punishment.Given the choice I'd always take points as I live in an area where public transport is a PITA as I live my life in a spontaneous way. Not having a driving licence would be a tremendous ballache, even for a relatively short period. I'm not slow but I know to avoid taking the piss and know when I'm a sitting duck. As a result I haven't had any points for nearly 30 years. It's really not that difficult to keep your licence clean.
Thanks all so far, some thoughts:
While this is a step up from 3 points & £100 via a FPN it is pretty routine stuff (not condoning in any way). Looks like a slam dunk for 5 points and a fine, ban unlikley. But AIUI you can request a court appearance and put your case, but this involves "litigation risk" and could backfire. I have seen agtlaw and others advise against this sort of thing. The gist of my OP was "what is the collective PH experience of how insurers view a short ban?" but not much feedback so far with this. Yes I could plug all the details into meerkats to get some quotes but
IT ISN'T ME
so I CBA and "my daughter" certainly CBA
OK points count for 3 years for "totting up", 4 years on licence, and (generally) 5 years to declare for insurance, so that "should" slow you down, or hone your observation. I get the "buffer" argument re totting up and yes you can collect points for other offences (ask "my other daughter" and she is in the police!)
Years ago friend of a friend (also really not me) got stopped while "making progress" through rural North Wales. PC wrote it up at 98 mph (in 60 mph NSL) rather than the true 3 figures he was doing. Banned for 14 days which he served by taking a sunshine holiday for 2 weeks (driving while he was there ...) and any insurance costs would have been absorbed as "business expenses"
If anyone has nothing better to do than trawl my posting history they will find another thread I started about an RTC and insurance aggro that I got dragged into a few years ago courtesy of the very same "daughter". Some on here "called me out" that the details just didn't add up and would I like to put up (the paperwork - which I did) or shut up. I have warned my daughter that the summons may not come until nearly the 6 month deadline so not to think this has gone away and carry on regardless.
I have toyed with the idea of making a lighthearted gender identity joke about this but realise how that could go, even on here. Am I sure this was my daughter and not really me?
I WAS LOOKING AFTER HER KIDS WHEN SHE GOT CAUGHT
Over to you, again
While this is a step up from 3 points & £100 via a FPN it is pretty routine stuff (not condoning in any way). Looks like a slam dunk for 5 points and a fine, ban unlikley. But AIUI you can request a court appearance and put your case, but this involves "litigation risk" and could backfire. I have seen agtlaw and others advise against this sort of thing. The gist of my OP was "what is the collective PH experience of how insurers view a short ban?" but not much feedback so far with this. Yes I could plug all the details into meerkats to get some quotes but
IT ISN'T ME
so I CBA and "my daughter" certainly CBA
OK points count for 3 years for "totting up", 4 years on licence, and (generally) 5 years to declare for insurance, so that "should" slow you down, or hone your observation. I get the "buffer" argument re totting up and yes you can collect points for other offences (ask "my other daughter" and she is in the police!)
Years ago friend of a friend (also really not me) got stopped while "making progress" through rural North Wales. PC wrote it up at 98 mph (in 60 mph NSL) rather than the true 3 figures he was doing. Banned for 14 days which he served by taking a sunshine holiday for 2 weeks (driving while he was there ...) and any insurance costs would have been absorbed as "business expenses"
If anyone has nothing better to do than trawl my posting history they will find another thread I started about an RTC and insurance aggro that I got dragged into a few years ago courtesy of the very same "daughter". Some on here "called me out" that the details just didn't add up and would I like to put up (the paperwork - which I did) or shut up. I have warned my daughter that the summons may not come until nearly the 6 month deadline so not to think this has gone away and carry on regardless.
I have toyed with the idea of making a lighthearted gender identity joke about this but realise how that could go, even on here. Am I sure this was my daughter and not really me?
I WAS LOOKING AFTER HER KIDS WHEN SHE GOT CAUGHT
Over to you, again
drjhill said:
Thanks all so far, some thoughts:
While this is a step up from 3 points & £100 via a FPN it is pretty routine stuff (not condoning in any way). Looks like a slam dunk for 5 points and a fine, ban unlikley. But AIUI you can request a court appearance and put your case, but this involves "litigation risk" and could backfire. I have seen agtlaw and others advise against this sort of thing. The gist of my OP was "what is the collective PH experience of how insurers view a short ban?" but not much feedback so far with this. Yes I could plug all the details into meerkats to get some quotes but
IT ISN'T ME
so I CBA and "my daughter" certainly CBA
OK points count for 3 years for "totting up", 4 years on licence, and (generally) 5 years to declare for insurance, so that "should" slow you down, or hone your observation. I get the "buffer" argument re totting up and yes you can collect points for other offences (ask "my other daughter" and she is in the police!)
Years ago friend of a friend (also really not me) got stopped while "making progress" through rural North Wales. PC wrote it up at 98 mph (in 60 mph NSL) rather than the true 3 figures he was doing. Banned for 14 days which he served by taking a sunshine holiday for 2 weeks (driving while he was there ...) and any insurance costs would have been absorbed as "business expenses"
If anyone has nothing better to do than trawl my posting history they will find another thread I started about an RTC and insurance aggro that I got dragged into a few years ago courtesy of the very same "daughter". Some on here "called me out" that the details just didn't add up and would I like to put up (the paperwork - which I did) or shut up. I have warned my daughter that the summons may not come until nearly the 6 month deadline so not to think this has gone away and carry on regardless.
I have toyed with the idea of making a lighthearted gender identity joke about this but realise how that could go, even on here. Am I sure this was my daughter and not really me?
I WAS LOOKING AFTER HER KIDS WHEN SHE GOT CAUGHT
Over to you, again
It REALLY was you, wasn't it?While this is a step up from 3 points & £100 via a FPN it is pretty routine stuff (not condoning in any way). Looks like a slam dunk for 5 points and a fine, ban unlikley. But AIUI you can request a court appearance and put your case, but this involves "litigation risk" and could backfire. I have seen agtlaw and others advise against this sort of thing. The gist of my OP was "what is the collective PH experience of how insurers view a short ban?" but not much feedback so far with this. Yes I could plug all the details into meerkats to get some quotes but
IT ISN'T ME
so I CBA and "my daughter" certainly CBA
OK points count for 3 years for "totting up", 4 years on licence, and (generally) 5 years to declare for insurance, so that "should" slow you down, or hone your observation. I get the "buffer" argument re totting up and yes you can collect points for other offences (ask "my other daughter" and she is in the police!)
Years ago friend of a friend (also really not me) got stopped while "making progress" through rural North Wales. PC wrote it up at 98 mph (in 60 mph NSL) rather than the true 3 figures he was doing. Banned for 14 days which he served by taking a sunshine holiday for 2 weeks (driving while he was there ...) and any insurance costs would have been absorbed as "business expenses"
If anyone has nothing better to do than trawl my posting history they will find another thread I started about an RTC and insurance aggro that I got dragged into a few years ago courtesy of the very same "daughter". Some on here "called me out" that the details just didn't add up and would I like to put up (the paperwork - which I did) or shut up. I have warned my daughter that the summons may not come until nearly the 6 month deadline so not to think this has gone away and carry on regardless.
I have toyed with the idea of making a lighthearted gender identity joke about this but realise how that could go, even on here. Am I sure this was my daughter and not really me?
I WAS LOOKING AFTER HER KIDS WHEN SHE GOT CAUGHT
Over to you, again
drjhill said:
Thanks all so far, some thoughts:
While this is a step up from 3 points & £100 via a FPN it is pretty routine stuff (not condoning in any way). Looks like a slam dunk for 5 points and a fine, ban unlikley. But AIUI you can request a court appearance and put your case, but this involves "litigation risk" and could backfire. I have seen agtlaw and others advise against this sort of thing. The gist of my OP was "what is the collective PH experience of how insurers view a short ban?" but not much feedback so far with this. Yes I could plug all the details into meerkats to get some quotes but
IT ISN'T ME
so I CBA and "my daughter" certainly CBA
OK points count for 3 years for "totting up", 4 years on licence, and (generally) 5 years to declare for insurance, so that "should" slow you down, or hone your observation. I get the "buffer" argument re totting up and yes you can collect points for other offences (ask "my other daughter" and she is in the police!)
Years ago friend of a friend (also really not me) got stopped while "making progress" through rural North Wales. PC wrote it up at 98 mph (in 60 mph NSL) rather than the true 3 figures he was doing. Banned for 14 days which he served by taking a sunshine holiday for 2 weeks (driving while he was there ...) and any insurance costs would have been absorbed as "business expenses"
If anyone has nothing better to do than trawl my posting history they will find another thread I started about an RTC and insurance aggro that I got dragged into a few years ago courtesy of the very same "daughter". Some on here "called me out" that the details just didn't add up and would I like to put up (the paperwork - which I did) or shut up. I have warned my daughter that the summons may not come until nearly the 6 month deadline so not to think this has gone away and carry on regardless.
I have toyed with the idea of making a lighthearted gender identity joke about this but realise how that could go, even on here. Am I sure this was my daughter and not really me?
I WAS LOOKING AFTER HER KIDS WHEN SHE GOT CAUGHT
Over to you, again
I think the best way to prove its not you is to post a pic of said daughter.......While this is a step up from 3 points & £100 via a FPN it is pretty routine stuff (not condoning in any way). Looks like a slam dunk for 5 points and a fine, ban unlikley. But AIUI you can request a court appearance and put your case, but this involves "litigation risk" and could backfire. I have seen agtlaw and others advise against this sort of thing. The gist of my OP was "what is the collective PH experience of how insurers view a short ban?" but not much feedback so far with this. Yes I could plug all the details into meerkats to get some quotes but
IT ISN'T ME
so I CBA and "my daughter" certainly CBA
OK points count for 3 years for "totting up", 4 years on licence, and (generally) 5 years to declare for insurance, so that "should" slow you down, or hone your observation. I get the "buffer" argument re totting up and yes you can collect points for other offences (ask "my other daughter" and she is in the police!)
Years ago friend of a friend (also really not me) got stopped while "making progress" through rural North Wales. PC wrote it up at 98 mph (in 60 mph NSL) rather than the true 3 figures he was doing. Banned for 14 days which he served by taking a sunshine holiday for 2 weeks (driving while he was there ...) and any insurance costs would have been absorbed as "business expenses"
If anyone has nothing better to do than trawl my posting history they will find another thread I started about an RTC and insurance aggro that I got dragged into a few years ago courtesy of the very same "daughter". Some on here "called me out" that the details just didn't add up and would I like to put up (the paperwork - which I did) or shut up. I have warned my daughter that the summons may not come until nearly the 6 month deadline so not to think this has gone away and carry on regardless.
I have toyed with the idea of making a lighthearted gender identity joke about this but realise how that could go, even on here. Am I sure this was my daughter and not really me?
I WAS LOOKING AFTER HER KIDS WHEN SHE GOT CAUGHT
Over to you, again
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