Miserable situation ref will and executor duties
Discussion
This one's really been getting me down so if we could avoid the 'attack the op' I would appreciate it...
6 weeks ago my father passed away. For the last couple of years he has lived with my wife and I and about a year ago we bought a place with a really nice annexe. It is perfect, everyone has their own space but when he was feeling sociable he could wander down our end we would do the same. Being self contained It also has a couple of doors that can be locked. I love my dad but you need a door (although we never actually locked it now I think of it).
This was funded by ~35% his money and the rest ours. No weirdness about money in our family, we've always trusted each other. He sold his house, sent me the money while we were looking for a place, moved in and went on holiday for a few months (he owns half of a holiday home in Spain with my brother).
He passed away while we were working outside in the garden. By the time we found him it was too late for anything to be done. I called my brother (works abroad, wife and family in UK but was in the UK at the time) while I sat with him.
The next day my brother flew back to work saying he wanted to sort a few things there then fly back. The funeral is in a week, he hasn't been back, he wanted to fit the funeral into the same trip as seeing his eldest son go to school and didn't want to make two trips. We've postponed the funeral so this can happen. This has meant my dad's youngest brother now can't attend.
A couple of days after dad died I get a call from my brother. He tells me that with any money dad gave me I mustn't tell any solicitors etc that it was a gift. It had to be declared a loan otherwise I was in serious trouble with HMRC. Initially I was concerned, but after 10 minutes looking at the .gov website I see there are no issues. Everything is below any thresholds for IHT, my parents were rich in experiences not money.
Shortly after I started to arrange the funeral. Bit skint at the moment (still haven't sold the old house) and some needed to be paid up front (nothing huge, £1200ish). I call my brother and ask if he would mind sending me half towards this. Get a flat "no" in response: "No money, can't manage anything etc etc" This is when I should tell you that he earns somewhere in the region of £150-200k/year. I earn a lot less but usually am pretty well off, just bad timing on my part. So I pay it as it needs paying. Since then he has been very critical when this was brought up of my inability to pay such a small amount of money.
Between then and now I can't get him to show any interest in the funeral. He doesn't want to come to our house first, wants to go straight there. Doesn't want to come back afterwards to see family. Only wants a small, family gathering, none of dad's friends (despite not intending to come himself). Hates dad's best friend, she mustn't be there, she's just after his money etc etc. Obviously I've given up trying to keep him happy at this point and have invited everyone dad knew, as that's what he would have wanted.
Now comes the kicker...
There's a problem with the will, sort of. Dad had made a couple of notes on his copy of the will to balance out my brother's and my 'share' (hate that we are even talking about this) in view of what he'd given me towards the new house. He hadn't got round to updating the original though. I notice this and send a picture of it to my brother to let him know that I've seen it and not to worry, it will get shared out exactly as dad intended. This isn't good enough for the brother. For the last couple of weeks all he will talk about is how we have to get the will amended and if I don't do it I'm going against what dad wanted. It's relentless, must be 2 or 3 hundred messages. States he won't act in accordance with the will (we're both executors and the only beneficiaries) unless I agree to a change in the will.
Also there is a Spanish will. The UK will specifically excludes any Spanish assets in a will dated 2016. The thing is, there's been another Spanish will since then. Pretty confident at this point that this is what is worrying brother but he keeps claiming he wants an amendment to the UK will so that dad's wishes are followed and I'm going against them. He hasn't brought up the Spanish will, probably thinks I don't know.
So, how to fix this. All I want is to have a 'good' funeral, see dad off, allow family to grieve then sort out legal side with minimum fuss. I can't get my brother to engage with anything other than an endless whine about money and I feel less inclined to appease him as each day passes.
How do you fix that?
6 weeks ago my father passed away. For the last couple of years he has lived with my wife and I and about a year ago we bought a place with a really nice annexe. It is perfect, everyone has their own space but when he was feeling sociable he could wander down our end we would do the same. Being self contained It also has a couple of doors that can be locked. I love my dad but you need a door (although we never actually locked it now I think of it).
This was funded by ~35% his money and the rest ours. No weirdness about money in our family, we've always trusted each other. He sold his house, sent me the money while we were looking for a place, moved in and went on holiday for a few months (he owns half of a holiday home in Spain with my brother).
He passed away while we were working outside in the garden. By the time we found him it was too late for anything to be done. I called my brother (works abroad, wife and family in UK but was in the UK at the time) while I sat with him.
The next day my brother flew back to work saying he wanted to sort a few things there then fly back. The funeral is in a week, he hasn't been back, he wanted to fit the funeral into the same trip as seeing his eldest son go to school and didn't want to make two trips. We've postponed the funeral so this can happen. This has meant my dad's youngest brother now can't attend.
A couple of days after dad died I get a call from my brother. He tells me that with any money dad gave me I mustn't tell any solicitors etc that it was a gift. It had to be declared a loan otherwise I was in serious trouble with HMRC. Initially I was concerned, but after 10 minutes looking at the .gov website I see there are no issues. Everything is below any thresholds for IHT, my parents were rich in experiences not money.
Shortly after I started to arrange the funeral. Bit skint at the moment (still haven't sold the old house) and some needed to be paid up front (nothing huge, £1200ish). I call my brother and ask if he would mind sending me half towards this. Get a flat "no" in response: "No money, can't manage anything etc etc" This is when I should tell you that he earns somewhere in the region of £150-200k/year. I earn a lot less but usually am pretty well off, just bad timing on my part. So I pay it as it needs paying. Since then he has been very critical when this was brought up of my inability to pay such a small amount of money.
Between then and now I can't get him to show any interest in the funeral. He doesn't want to come to our house first, wants to go straight there. Doesn't want to come back afterwards to see family. Only wants a small, family gathering, none of dad's friends (despite not intending to come himself). Hates dad's best friend, she mustn't be there, she's just after his money etc etc. Obviously I've given up trying to keep him happy at this point and have invited everyone dad knew, as that's what he would have wanted.
Now comes the kicker...
There's a problem with the will, sort of. Dad had made a couple of notes on his copy of the will to balance out my brother's and my 'share' (hate that we are even talking about this) in view of what he'd given me towards the new house. He hadn't got round to updating the original though. I notice this and send a picture of it to my brother to let him know that I've seen it and not to worry, it will get shared out exactly as dad intended. This isn't good enough for the brother. For the last couple of weeks all he will talk about is how we have to get the will amended and if I don't do it I'm going against what dad wanted. It's relentless, must be 2 or 3 hundred messages. States he won't act in accordance with the will (we're both executors and the only beneficiaries) unless I agree to a change in the will.
Also there is a Spanish will. The UK will specifically excludes any Spanish assets in a will dated 2016. The thing is, there's been another Spanish will since then. Pretty confident at this point that this is what is worrying brother but he keeps claiming he wants an amendment to the UK will so that dad's wishes are followed and I'm going against them. He hasn't brought up the Spanish will, probably thinks I don't know.
So, how to fix this. All I want is to have a 'good' funeral, see dad off, allow family to grieve then sort out legal side with minimum fuss. I can't get my brother to engage with anything other than an endless whine about money and I feel less inclined to appease him as each day passes.
How do you fix that?
Richard-D said:
This one's really been getting me down so if we could avoid the 'attack the op' I would appreciate it...
6 weeks ago my father passed away. For the last couple of years he has lived with my wife and I and about a year ago we bought a place with a really nice annexe. It is perfect, everyone has their own space but when he was feeling sociable he could wander down our end we would do the same. Being self contained It also has a couple of doors that can be locked. I love my dad but you need a door (although we never actually locked it now I think of it).
This was funded by ~35% his money and the rest ours. No weirdness about money in our family, we've always trusted each other. He sold his house, sent me the money while we were looking for a place, moved in and went on holiday for a few months (he owns half of a holiday home in Spain with my brother).
He passed away while we were working outside in the garden. By the time we found him it was too late for anything to be done. I called my brother (works abroad, wife and family in UK but was in the UK at the time) while I sat with him.
The next day my brother flew back to work saying he wanted to sort a few things there then fly back. The funeral is in a week, he hasn't been back, he wanted to fit the funeral into the same trip as seeing his eldest son go to school and didn't want to make two trips. We've postponed the funeral so this can happen. This has meant my dad's youngest brother now can't attend.
A couple of days after dad died I get a call from my brother. He tells me that with any money dad gave me I mustn't tell any solicitors etc that it was a gift. It had to be declared a loan otherwise I was in serious trouble with HMRC. Initially I was concerned, but after 10 minutes looking at the .gov website I see there are no issues. Everything is below any thresholds for IHT, my parents were rich in experiences not money.
Shortly after I started to arrange the funeral. Bit skint at the moment (still haven't sold the old house) and some needed to be paid up front (nothing huge, £1200ish). I call my brother and ask if he would mind sending me half towards this. Get a flat "no" in response: "No money, can't manage anything etc etc" This is when I should tell you that he earns somewhere in the region of £150-200k/year. I earn a lot less but usually am pretty well off, just bad timing on my part. So I pay it as it needs paying. Since then he has been very critical when this was brought up of my inability to pay such a small amount of money.
Between then and now I can't get him to show any interest in the funeral. He doesn't want to come to our house first, wants to go straight there. Doesn't want to come back afterwards to see family. Only wants a small, family gathering, none of dad's friends (despite not intending to come himself). Hates dad's best friend, she mustn't be there, she's just after his money etc etc. Obviously I've given up trying to keep him happy at this point and have invited everyone dad knew, as that's what he would have wanted.
Now comes the kicker...
There's a problem with the will, sort of. Dad had made a couple of notes on his copy of the will to balance out my brother's and my 'share' (hate that we are even talking about this) in view of what he'd given me towards the new house. He hadn't got round to updating the original though. I notice this and send a picture of it to my brother to let him know that I've seen it and not to worry, it will get shared out exactly as dad intended. This isn't good enough for the brother. For the last couple of weeks all he will talk about is how we have to get the will amended and if I don't do it I'm going against what dad wanted. It's relentless, must be 2 or 3 hundred messages. States he won't act in accordance with the will (we're both executors and the only beneficiaries) unless I agree to a change in the will.
Also there is a Spanish will. The UK will specifically excludes any Spanish assets in a will dated 2016. The thing is, there's been another Spanish will since then. Pretty confident at this point that this is what is worrying brother but he keeps claiming he wants an amendment to the UK will so that dad's wishes are followed and I'm going against them. He hasn't brought up the Spanish will, probably thinks I don't know.
So, how to fix this. All I want is to have a 'good' funeral, see dad off, allow family to grieve then sort out legal side with minimum fuss. I can't get my brother to engage with anything other than an endless whine about money and I feel less inclined to appease him as each day passes.
How do you fix that?
Firstly, sorry for your loss. Looks like you loved your dad a hell of a lot and did the best for him. I really can't give any advice but this is what usually happens when someone passes away. The vultures start circling and they all want a piece. Grief can affect people in different ways, sadness, anger, bitterness, relief etc. It seems your brother is being quite stubborn about things at the moment but he maybe having trouble processing what's happended. I know it's very difficult but give it a couple more weeks to see how he is. 6 weeks ago my father passed away. For the last couple of years he has lived with my wife and I and about a year ago we bought a place with a really nice annexe. It is perfect, everyone has their own space but when he was feeling sociable he could wander down our end we would do the same. Being self contained It also has a couple of doors that can be locked. I love my dad but you need a door (although we never actually locked it now I think of it).
This was funded by ~35% his money and the rest ours. No weirdness about money in our family, we've always trusted each other. He sold his house, sent me the money while we were looking for a place, moved in and went on holiday for a few months (he owns half of a holiday home in Spain with my brother).
He passed away while we were working outside in the garden. By the time we found him it was too late for anything to be done. I called my brother (works abroad, wife and family in UK but was in the UK at the time) while I sat with him.
The next day my brother flew back to work saying he wanted to sort a few things there then fly back. The funeral is in a week, he hasn't been back, he wanted to fit the funeral into the same trip as seeing his eldest son go to school and didn't want to make two trips. We've postponed the funeral so this can happen. This has meant my dad's youngest brother now can't attend.
A couple of days after dad died I get a call from my brother. He tells me that with any money dad gave me I mustn't tell any solicitors etc that it was a gift. It had to be declared a loan otherwise I was in serious trouble with HMRC. Initially I was concerned, but after 10 minutes looking at the .gov website I see there are no issues. Everything is below any thresholds for IHT, my parents were rich in experiences not money.
Shortly after I started to arrange the funeral. Bit skint at the moment (still haven't sold the old house) and some needed to be paid up front (nothing huge, £1200ish). I call my brother and ask if he would mind sending me half towards this. Get a flat "no" in response: "No money, can't manage anything etc etc" This is when I should tell you that he earns somewhere in the region of £150-200k/year. I earn a lot less but usually am pretty well off, just bad timing on my part. So I pay it as it needs paying. Since then he has been very critical when this was brought up of my inability to pay such a small amount of money.
Between then and now I can't get him to show any interest in the funeral. He doesn't want to come to our house first, wants to go straight there. Doesn't want to come back afterwards to see family. Only wants a small, family gathering, none of dad's friends (despite not intending to come himself). Hates dad's best friend, she mustn't be there, she's just after his money etc etc. Obviously I've given up trying to keep him happy at this point and have invited everyone dad knew, as that's what he would have wanted.
Now comes the kicker...
There's a problem with the will, sort of. Dad had made a couple of notes on his copy of the will to balance out my brother's and my 'share' (hate that we are even talking about this) in view of what he'd given me towards the new house. He hadn't got round to updating the original though. I notice this and send a picture of it to my brother to let him know that I've seen it and not to worry, it will get shared out exactly as dad intended. This isn't good enough for the brother. For the last couple of weeks all he will talk about is how we have to get the will amended and if I don't do it I'm going against what dad wanted. It's relentless, must be 2 or 3 hundred messages. States he won't act in accordance with the will (we're both executors and the only beneficiaries) unless I agree to a change in the will.
Also there is a Spanish will. The UK will specifically excludes any Spanish assets in a will dated 2016. The thing is, there's been another Spanish will since then. Pretty confident at this point that this is what is worrying brother but he keeps claiming he wants an amendment to the UK will so that dad's wishes are followed and I'm going against them. He hasn't brought up the Spanish will, probably thinks I don't know.
So, how to fix this. All I want is to have a 'good' funeral, see dad off, allow family to grieve then sort out legal side with minimum fuss. I can't get my brother to engage with anything other than an endless whine about money and I feel less inclined to appease him as each day passes.
How do you fix that?
Simple choice, you can either bend over and keep your brother happy or risk falling out with your brother - possibly forever - but keep yourself and everyone else happy
Personally I've always liked a straightforward conversation, preferably face to face and if we're going to have a fallout - so be it
Personally I've always liked a straightforward conversation, preferably face to face and if we're going to have a fallout - so be it
In this sort of situation, a manipulative person will try to capitalise on any small gains to create a sense of control.
Set boundaries, be clear, firm, fair and consistent. I like the idea of a face to face conversation; I would urge listening far more than talking, so that his plans can reveal themselves. Something is clearly being conjured in his mind and his insistence on keeping a low profile and being clandestine about his plans suggests to me that this is his big play yet he is going against his conscience.
If you allow yourself to submit to his demands now, in order to maintain a status quo, you will choose to compromise your integrity for the facade of a cordial relationship. He has made it clear that this is of little interest to him so brace yourself to have lost your father and your brother (metaphorically) within a short, life altering period of time.
I must say, that it doesn’t sound as though you’re about to have the wool pulled over your eyes, but that you’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it is likely that that particular horse has already bolted unless he expresses contrition for his inappropriate behaviour and opens the door to an amicable resolution to what could be a straightforward matter.
Whatever the scenario, you have to consider what you’re willing to concede, now, in order to resolve the will. An undesirable scenario is that it becomes attritional and gradually wears both of you down over time. Get on the front foot, be proactive and constructive but don’t fall for the emotional manipulation.
Set boundaries, be clear, firm, fair and consistent. I like the idea of a face to face conversation; I would urge listening far more than talking, so that his plans can reveal themselves. Something is clearly being conjured in his mind and his insistence on keeping a low profile and being clandestine about his plans suggests to me that this is his big play yet he is going against his conscience.
If you allow yourself to submit to his demands now, in order to maintain a status quo, you will choose to compromise your integrity for the facade of a cordial relationship. He has made it clear that this is of little interest to him so brace yourself to have lost your father and your brother (metaphorically) within a short, life altering period of time.
I must say, that it doesn’t sound as though you’re about to have the wool pulled over your eyes, but that you’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it is likely that that particular horse has already bolted unless he expresses contrition for his inappropriate behaviour and opens the door to an amicable resolution to what could be a straightforward matter.
Whatever the scenario, you have to consider what you’re willing to concede, now, in order to resolve the will. An undesirable scenario is that it becomes attritional and gradually wears both of you down over time. Get on the front foot, be proactive and constructive but don’t fall for the emotional manipulation.
Sheepshanks said:
What’s happening with the holiday home - is your brother thinking he’ll just quietly keep all of it?
Regarding paying for the funeral - send the bills to your late Dad’s bank and they’ll pay them.
Oh he's welcome to it. I know my Dad intended it to go to him and have no intention of doing anything to affect that.Regarding paying for the funeral - send the bills to your late Dad’s bank and they’ll pay them.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Monday 4th September 23:34
Same with whatever money ends up being in any accounts. The will says it comes my way but only because it hadn't been updated. It'll be in my account only for long enough to show that it happened (as per will) then be split straight down the middle.
Appreciate the advice ref paying for the funeral too. I understand that can happen with the main bill and will be doing exactly that. The initial fees needed to be paid within 24hrs of booking so that was what I did. Will sort that later but not an issue now as I'm back to having a decent amount in my account again.
KTMsm said:
Simple choice, you can either bend over and keep your brother happy or risk falling out with your brother - possibly forever - but keep yourself and everyone else happy
Personally I've always liked a straightforward conversation, preferably face to face and if we're going to have a fallout - so be it
Giving in to the brother may not fix anything.Personally I've always liked a straightforward conversation, preferably face to face and if we're going to have a fallout - so be it
The OP will think the brother is unfairly on the make and the brother will think the OP is weak.
Other family members/inlaws etc will have opinions too!
That may cause a divide for a couple of generations.
Some disputes or differences need to be in the open to be settled.
Then people can move on.
bolidemichael said:
In this sort of situation, a manipulative person will try to capitalise on any small gains to create a sense of control.
Set boundaries, be clear, firm, fair and consistent. I like the idea of a face to face conversation; I would urge listening far more than talking, so that his plans can reveal themselves. Something is clearly being conjured in his mind and his insistence on keeping a low profile and being clandestine about his plans suggests to me that this is his big play yet he is going against his conscience.
If you allow yourself to submit to his demands now, in order to maintain a status quo, you will choose to compromise your integrity for the facade of a cordial relationship. He has made it clear that this is of little interest to him so brace yourself to have lost your father and your brother (metaphorically) within a short, life altering period of time.
I must say, that it doesn’t sound as though you’re about to have the wool pulled over your eyes, but that you’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it is likely that that particular horse has already bolted unless he expresses contrition for his inappropriate behaviour and opens the door to an amicable resolution to what could be a straightforward matter.
Whatever the scenario, you have to consider what you’re willing to concede, now, in order to resolve the will. An undesirable scenario is that it becomes attritional and gradually wears both of you down over time. Get on the front foot, be proactive and constructive but don’t fall for the emotional manipulation.
That sounds very much like what I'm seeing. I'd like to think I've misinterpreted it but in reality it's blindingly obvious what is happening.Set boundaries, be clear, firm, fair and consistent. I like the idea of a face to face conversation; I would urge listening far more than talking, so that his plans can reveal themselves. Something is clearly being conjured in his mind and his insistence on keeping a low profile and being clandestine about his plans suggests to me that this is his big play yet he is going against his conscience.
If you allow yourself to submit to his demands now, in order to maintain a status quo, you will choose to compromise your integrity for the facade of a cordial relationship. He has made it clear that this is of little interest to him so brace yourself to have lost your father and your brother (metaphorically) within a short, life altering period of time.
I must say, that it doesn’t sound as though you’re about to have the wool pulled over your eyes, but that you’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it is likely that that particular horse has already bolted unless he expresses contrition for his inappropriate behaviour and opens the door to an amicable resolution to what could be a straightforward matter.
Whatever the scenario, you have to consider what you’re willing to concede, now, in order to resolve the will. An undesirable scenario is that it becomes attritional and gradually wears both of you down over time. Get on the front foot, be proactive and constructive but don’t fall for the emotional manipulation.
I make no claim to being particularly intelligent. I always say that I'm rarely the smartest person in the room...I just get to the answer first because I bash my head against the wall the longest. My brother however seems to have convinced himself he is really clever and I'm quite sure is patting himself on the back about how clever he is being (intentional overuse of clever). The chance of him successfully tricking me into anything is pretty much zero.
I take your point about being clear and consistent. I will focus on that more.
We've never been close brothers but it does make me a bit sad that this is likely to be the end of whatever we have.
Best wishes OP. This sounds very trying at a tough time.
Despite you thinking your brother is well off, his actions sound like someone very motivated by money. Is that his character or might it be some financial difficulty you don’t know about?
My family is small, so I’d be tempted to try to take the heat out of it somewhat. I was going to suggest getting a wizened old solicitor to help, just to consult, but I fear the extra £ might irritate your brother more. Is there anyone that could be that wise counsel for you both?
Despite you thinking your brother is well off, his actions sound like someone very motivated by money. Is that his character or might it be some financial difficulty you don’t know about?
My family is small, so I’d be tempted to try to take the heat out of it somewhat. I was going to suggest getting a wizened old solicitor to help, just to consult, but I fear the extra £ might irritate your brother more. Is there anyone that could be that wise counsel for you both?
For the posters I haven't specifically responded to thank you for your advice too. I am absolutely taking on board everything said above.
There is no way I'm going to let him bully me into anything. I think if he was honest with himself he would see that's what he's trying to do. He may have convinced himself that it's a 'point of principle' though, could be giving him too much credit here.
One line I won't cross is for there to be any sort of argument on the day.
I'm still undecided on keeping a 2nd car booked for him to go in from my house. I can't see it being needed but don't want to take away the opportunity for him to be respectful and act like a decent person.
There is no way I'm going to let him bully me into anything. I think if he was honest with himself he would see that's what he's trying to do. He may have convinced himself that it's a 'point of principle' though, could be giving him too much credit here.
One line I won't cross is for there to be any sort of argument on the day.
I'm still undecided on keeping a 2nd car booked for him to go in from my house. I can't see it being needed but don't want to take away the opportunity for him to be respectful and act like a decent person.
Richard-D said:
bolidemichael said:
In this sort of situation, a manipulative person will try to capitalise on any small gains to create a sense of control.
Set boundaries, be clear, firm, fair and consistent. I like the idea of a face to face conversation; I would urge listening far more than talking, so that his plans can reveal themselves. Something is clearly being conjured in his mind and his insistence on keeping a low profile and being clandestine about his plans suggests to me that this is his big play yet he is going against his conscience.
If you allow yourself to submit to his demands now, in order to maintain a status quo, you will choose to compromise your integrity for the facade of a cordial relationship. He has made it clear that this is of little interest to him so brace yourself to have lost your father and your brother (metaphorically) within a short, life altering period of time.
I must say, that it doesn’t sound as though you’re about to have the wool pulled over your eyes, but that you’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it is likely that that particular horse has already bolted unless he expresses contrition for his inappropriate behaviour and opens the door to an amicable resolution to what could be a straightforward matter.
Whatever the scenario, you have to consider what you’re willing to concede, now, in order to resolve the will. An undesirable scenario is that it becomes attritional and gradually wears both of you down over time. Get on the front foot, be proactive and constructive but don’t fall for the emotional manipulation.
That sounds very much like what I'm seeing. I'd like to think I've misinterpreted it but in reality it's blindingly obvious what is happening.Set boundaries, be clear, firm, fair and consistent. I like the idea of a face to face conversation; I would urge listening far more than talking, so that his plans can reveal themselves. Something is clearly being conjured in his mind and his insistence on keeping a low profile and being clandestine about his plans suggests to me that this is his big play yet he is going against his conscience.
If you allow yourself to submit to his demands now, in order to maintain a status quo, you will choose to compromise your integrity for the facade of a cordial relationship. He has made it clear that this is of little interest to him so brace yourself to have lost your father and your brother (metaphorically) within a short, life altering period of time.
I must say, that it doesn’t sound as though you’re about to have the wool pulled over your eyes, but that you’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it is likely that that particular horse has already bolted unless he expresses contrition for his inappropriate behaviour and opens the door to an amicable resolution to what could be a straightforward matter.
Whatever the scenario, you have to consider what you’re willing to concede, now, in order to resolve the will. An undesirable scenario is that it becomes attritional and gradually wears both of you down over time. Get on the front foot, be proactive and constructive but don’t fall for the emotional manipulation.
I make no claim to being particularly intelligent. I always say that I'm rarely the smartest person in the room...I just get to the answer first because I bash my head against the wall the longest. My brother however seems to have convinced himself he is really clever and I'm quite sure is patting himself on the back about how clever he is being (intentional overuse of clever). The chance of him successfully tricking me into anything is pretty much zero.
I take your point about being clear and consistent. I will focus on that more.
We've never been close brothers but it does make me a bit sad that this is likely to be the end of whatever we have.
Austin_Metro said:
Best wishes OP. This sounds very trying at a tough time.
Despite you thinking your brother is well off, his actions sound like someone very motivated by money. Is that his character or might it be some financial difficulty you don’t know about?
My family is small, so I’d be tempted to try to take the heat out of it somewhat. I was going to suggest getting a wizened old solicitor to help, just to consult, but I fear the extra £ might irritate your brother more. Is there anyone that could be that wise counsel for you both?
That's another point I only brushed on. It is possible he is genuinely struggling for money but it's hard to tell. He will say he has no money when it's convenient for a specific argument. Then a handful of minutes later he claims to have consulted multiple solicitors who all agree he's right and will personally pay for an amendment to the will. Despite you thinking your brother is well off, his actions sound like someone very motivated by money. Is that his character or might it be some financial difficulty you don’t know about?
My family is small, so I’d be tempted to try to take the heat out of it somewhat. I was going to suggest getting a wizened old solicitor to help, just to consult, but I fear the extra £ might irritate your brother more. Is there anyone that could be that wise counsel for you both?
Although the amendment he wants to pay for is, he claims, just to ensure any money in dad's accounts is divided equally. And then we should then both give it all to charity. It's all just nonsense. I suspect it's just a cover for sneaking in something relating to the Spanish house. Which I haven't the slightest interest in.
bolidemichael said:
Here’s the rub; your humble behaviour may have only encouraged his self-aggrandising over time. He’s going to be in for a shock when he realises that you aren’t a push over and you’ll have to be ready for that i.e. keep your cool, don’t be rattled and stand firm.
I probably have brought this on myself a bit. If that is the case I don't mind that much as it will have revealed a character trait that I needed to be aware of.I often carried out a little test on teams I led in a previous job. I'd leave out some money, not a massive amount (I'm from Yorkshire), just a £10 or £20 note. My reasoning being I wanted to know if I worked with people who would steal. Always figured that knowledge was worth way more than losing the occasional £20.
Edit: just occurred to me I never tried that test on my brother since we were adults :-D
I absolutely know he stole from me when we were children. I had just presumed that he'd grown out of it now we're both in our 40s.
Edited by Richard-D on Tuesday 5th September 00:39
Edited by Richard-D on Tuesday 5th September 00:41
I’ve re-read your OP in light of your last comment.
It strikes me as very odd sending hundreds of messages about the amendment. Almost desperate - from what you have said you’ve been clear that you’re going to comply
With your Dads wishes.
I am also intrigued by the suggestion that all gifts be recorded as loans. If that’s the case won’t you owe the estate 35% of the house? Which would then be split according to the will? I hope that’s not a ruse.
I would go slow. Don’t be pressured into anything. Best wishes for the funeral.
It strikes me as very odd sending hundreds of messages about the amendment. Almost desperate - from what you have said you’ve been clear that you’re going to comply
With your Dads wishes.
I am also intrigued by the suggestion that all gifts be recorded as loans. If that’s the case won’t you owe the estate 35% of the house? Which would then be split according to the will? I hope that’s not a ruse.
I would go slow. Don’t be pressured into anything. Best wishes for the funeral.
Zeeky said:
If you're willing to give effect to the handwritten notes why don't you agree to amend the Will accordingly?
Yes, that's a very fair question and I have been on the fence about it a couple of times.I think it's partly the attempt to bully me into it and that he's prioritised all of this over the funeral.
My main reason though is that we have an actionable will. It's very clear and allows the estate to be dealt with as easily as it could be. Any further steps don't affect the outcome but add cost and time. He refuses to include me in any correspondence with solicitors (I know he has contacted at least one in Spain) and whenever any aspect of administration in the UK is mentioned he is too busy because "family time is too precious". I get that working abroad means this is often true but it's only brought up when he doesn't want to do something.
Does it come across that I'm being obstructive? You're perfectly right that I could just let him have that. It would be interesting to see if there was an attempt to sneak something else in. I suspect that it would just give him even less incentive to be involved in any capacity.
Austin_Metro said:
I’ve re-read your OP in light of your last comment.
It strikes me as very odd sending hundreds of messages about the amendment. Almost desperate - from what you have said you’ve been clear that you’re going to comply
With your Dads wishes.
I am also intrigued by the suggestion that all gifts be recorded as loans. If that’s the case won’t you owe the estate 35% of the house? Which would then be split according to the will? I hope that’s not a ruse.
I would go slow. Don’t be pressured into anything. Best wishes for the funeral.
Thanks, I know it was long but feel it was necessary to provide context.It strikes me as very odd sending hundreds of messages about the amendment. Almost desperate - from what you have said you’ve been clear that you’re going to comply
With your Dads wishes.
I am also intrigued by the suggestion that all gifts be recorded as loans. If that’s the case won’t you owe the estate 35% of the house? Which would then be split according to the will? I hope that’s not a ruse.
I would go slow. Don’t be pressured into anything. Best wishes for the funeral.
Yes, although it would end up being less than that as it would then be divided between us. He swears blind that he just said he wanted me to get advice but he was very clear, it absolutely had to be recorded as a loan.
I realise also that anyone reading this only has my word that anything will be split straight down the middle. If it helps the reader then just think of it as a hypothetical situation. Hypothetically, if someone was this gullible and wet, what should he do? Etc etc :-D
Austin_Metro said:
And I’d ask about the Spanish will.
Yes, I'm wondering on the best way to deal with that. I know the rules for inheritance in Spain are different. IHT falls on the beneficiary and varies according to region and relationship. I also know that for children and spouses they can claim it back if they still own the property after a few years. I also know that UK wills are valid for property there. It appears that Brexit has complicated it too. Basically the Spanish side has the potential to be a complete mess. It annoys me that he refuses to include me in messages to solicitors there but I'm pretty confident that he's only got the potential to cause himself trouble. As an executor I am liable for his actions but as he's only got the potential to steal from me then I'm unlikely to sue myself. I'm not bothered if he's technically stealing the Spanish house from me as it's his house (if that makes sense).
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