Civil Enforcement Officer - Littering
Discussion
Just thought I’d share my disappointing experience I had with one of these officers this morning.
So I live in Manchester City Centre and every morning, before I walk over to the car park where my car is parked, I’ll have a cigarette next to my building. This morning was no different. Note that where I stand to smoke is setback slightly from the pavement and on the return of the building next to mine is a wall mounted ashtray.
I finish my cigarette and place the butt in the ashtray and walk off. As soon as I walk away, an enforcement officer approaches me and says that I’ve dropped a cigarette butt and attempts to go through the motions of issuing me with a fine.
Firstly, the enforcement officer could not physically have seen whether I actually littered or not because at all material times, I was stood back off the pavement and hidden by the side of a building. Furthermore, the argument which won me my reprieve was that the cigarette butt which was on the floor was a traditional brown colour. I showed the enforcement officer my packet of cigarettes which all had white filters. It was at this point that he backed off but was still muttering about there being a cigarette on the floor. I managed to walk away without him pursuing the matter further.
What aggrieved me was that he did not see any evidence of littering whatsoever yet still decided to try and pin the littering on me.
Anyway, just a rant really as it really pissed me off for the day. Also, the whole episode just goes to show how some people in positions of authority are willing to push their luck when trying to obtain a conviction or issue a fixed penalty.
So I live in Manchester City Centre and every morning, before I walk over to the car park where my car is parked, I’ll have a cigarette next to my building. This morning was no different. Note that where I stand to smoke is setback slightly from the pavement and on the return of the building next to mine is a wall mounted ashtray.
I finish my cigarette and place the butt in the ashtray and walk off. As soon as I walk away, an enforcement officer approaches me and says that I’ve dropped a cigarette butt and attempts to go through the motions of issuing me with a fine.
Firstly, the enforcement officer could not physically have seen whether I actually littered or not because at all material times, I was stood back off the pavement and hidden by the side of a building. Furthermore, the argument which won me my reprieve was that the cigarette butt which was on the floor was a traditional brown colour. I showed the enforcement officer my packet of cigarettes which all had white filters. It was at this point that he backed off but was still muttering about there being a cigarette on the floor. I managed to walk away without him pursuing the matter further.
What aggrieved me was that he did not see any evidence of littering whatsoever yet still decided to try and pin the littering on me.
Anyway, just a rant really as it really pissed me off for the day. Also, the whole episode just goes to show how some people in positions of authority are willing to push their luck when trying to obtain a conviction or issue a fixed penalty.
Personally, I have no problem with people subsidising our health sector massively.
We are still a free country, and free to do things we want even if other people don't want to do them.
But not littering - it winds me up, which is why these wardens exist.
The sole issue here is with the warden not doing their job properly.
I would raise it with the council. I recall some councils giving contracts to private sector companies who worked on a bonus system. But they were rowed back quite quickly after public outcry.
You were lucky they backed down, as I recall a thread on here where a chap in Sutton had his details taken and was pursued for dropping a cig when he says he didn't.
One other thing: these guys have a legal power to request details, and not giving them/taking them is an offence. But they have no power of detention/arrest, so unless plod turns up you can walk off (should you be so inclined).
For the wasters who sit round leaving special brew cans they ain't really going to care, so this enforcement only really has an effect on those with a stake in society unfortunately.
We are still a free country, and free to do things we want even if other people don't want to do them.
But not littering - it winds me up, which is why these wardens exist.
The sole issue here is with the warden not doing their job properly.
I would raise it with the council. I recall some councils giving contracts to private sector companies who worked on a bonus system. But they were rowed back quite quickly after public outcry.
You were lucky they backed down, as I recall a thread on here where a chap in Sutton had his details taken and was pursued for dropping a cig when he says he didn't.
One other thing: these guys have a legal power to request details, and not giving them/taking them is an offence. But they have no power of detention/arrest, so unless plod turns up you can walk off (should you be so inclined).
For the wasters who sit round leaving special brew cans they ain't really going to care, so this enforcement only really has an effect on those with a stake in society unfortunately.
Do you look like a soft touch OP? (and I don't mean that to be any way critical)
My Mum (in her 70s) was caught dropping a cigarette butt not so long ago (bang to rights, no complaints), but I'm damn sure that they wouldn't have gone chasing after her if she was a 25 year old in a hoodie as they'd know they would just be told to f-off.
I wonder how much of this kind of enforcement relies on those caught being compliant...
My Mum (in her 70s) was caught dropping a cigarette butt not so long ago (bang to rights, no complaints), but I'm damn sure that they wouldn't have gone chasing after her if she was a 25 year old in a hoodie as they'd know they would just be told to f-off.
I wonder how much of this kind of enforcement relies on those caught being compliant...
I don't believe you have to give them any details.
Plenty of videos online of them in Manchester, they work for G4S or similar on behalf of council.
So you can just walk away into a building and they have zero power to follow you or make you give any details.
In short, tell them to p
s off and walk away.
Plenty of videos online of them in Manchester, they work for G4S or similar on behalf of council.
So you can just walk away into a building and they have zero power to follow you or make you give any details.
In short, tell them to p
s off and walk away.Sporky said:
Ian Geary said:
Personally, I have no problem with people subsidising our health sector massively.
The downside is that they also take up disproportionate resources, which could otherwise be used to treat people with conditions they didn't earn themselves... 
richhead said:
Sporky said:
Ian Geary said:
Personally, I have no problem with people subsidising our health sector massively.
The downside is that they also take up disproportionate resources, which could otherwise be used to treat people with conditions they didn't earn themselves... Sporky said:
richhead said:
Sporky said:
Ian Geary said:
Personally, I have no problem with people subsidising our health sector massively.
The downside is that they also take up disproportionate resources, which could otherwise be used to treat people with conditions they didn't earn themselves... Sporky said:
richhead said:
Sporky said:
Ian Geary said:
Personally, I have no problem with people subsidising our health sector massively.
The downside is that they also take up disproportionate resources, which could otherwise be used to treat people with conditions they didn't earn themselves... Tobacco duties raise £10.4 billion:
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend...
Smoking costs the NHS £2.6 billion per year:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/guide-for-nhs...
But smoking actually makes no sense:
https://healthmanagement.co.uk/our-insights/articl...
If you want to support the country financially, just send the money to HMRC, enjoy a longer healthier life and free up 75,000 GP appointments for everybody else as well.
But back to the plot, can a litter warden actually fine someone without evidence?
https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend...
Smoking costs the NHS £2.6 billion per year:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/guide-for-nhs...
But smoking actually makes no sense:
https://healthmanagement.co.uk/our-insights/articl...
If you want to support the country financially, just send the money to HMRC, enjoy a longer healthier life and free up 75,000 GP appointments for everybody else as well.
But back to the plot, can a litter warden actually fine someone without evidence?
What a bunch of s. Hate stuff like this - won’t fine the do as you likeys littering the local playing fields while they camp there! But jump on you for putting rubbish in a public bin or dropping a wotsit!
For the OP I’m just surprised you didn’t notice this toad hiding behind the bushes spying on you. I keep my eyes peeled for everything these days - we’re being surveilled left, right and centre.
s. Hate stuff like this - won’t fine the do as you likeys littering the local playing fields while they camp there! But jump on you for putting rubbish in a public bin or dropping a wotsit!For the OP I’m just surprised you didn’t notice this toad hiding behind the bushes spying on you. I keep my eyes peeled for everything these days - we’re being surveilled left, right and centre.
CoolHands said:
What a bunch of s. Hate stuff like this - won’t fine the do as you likeys littering the local playing fields while they camp there! But jump on you for putting rubbish in a public bin or dropping a wotsit!
For the OP I’m just surprised you didn’t notice this toad hiding behind the bushes spying on you. I keep my eyes peeled for everything these days - we’re being surveilled left, right and centre.
did you see the pics of the aftermath of reading festavale unreals. Hate stuff like this - won’t fine the do as you likeys littering the local playing fields while they camp there! But jump on you for putting rubbish in a public bin or dropping a wotsit!For the OP I’m just surprised you didn’t notice this toad hiding behind the bushes spying on you. I keep my eyes peeled for everything these days - we’re being surveilled left, right and centre.
littering is a real thing i hate, but as said some people are easy pickings and more likely to pay a fine, than a chav leaving his crap in a field
KungFuPanda said:
Just thought I’d share my disappointing experience I had with one of these officers this morning.
So I live in Manchester City Centre and every morning, before I walk over to the car park where my car is parked, I’ll have a cigarette next to my building. This morning was no different. Note that where I stand to smoke is setback slightly from the pavement and on the return of the building next to mine is a wall mounted ashtray.
I finish my cigarette and place the butt in the ashtray and walk off. As soon as I walk away, an enforcement officer approaches me and says that I’ve dropped a cigarette butt and attempts to go through the motions of issuing me with a fine.
Firstly, the enforcement officer could not physically have seen whether I actually littered or not because at all material times, I was stood back off the pavement and hidden by the side of a building. Furthermore, the argument which won me my reprieve was that the cigarette butt which was on the floor was a traditional brown colour. I showed the enforcement officer my packet of cigarettes which all had white filters. It was at this point that he backed off but was still muttering about there being a cigarette on the floor. I managed to walk away without him pursuing the matter further.
What aggrieved me was that he did not see any evidence of littering whatsoever yet still decided to try and pin the littering on me.
Anyway, just a rant really as it really pissed me off for the day. Also, the whole episode just goes to show how some people in positions of authority are willing to push their luck when trying to obtain a conviction or issue a fixed penalty.
Instructions set for you the next time it happens :So I live in Manchester City Centre and every morning, before I walk over to the car park where my car is parked, I’ll have a cigarette next to my building. This morning was no different. Note that where I stand to smoke is setback slightly from the pavement and on the return of the building next to mine is a wall mounted ashtray.
I finish my cigarette and place the butt in the ashtray and walk off. As soon as I walk away, an enforcement officer approaches me and says that I’ve dropped a cigarette butt and attempts to go through the motions of issuing me with a fine.
Firstly, the enforcement officer could not physically have seen whether I actually littered or not because at all material times, I was stood back off the pavement and hidden by the side of a building. Furthermore, the argument which won me my reprieve was that the cigarette butt which was on the floor was a traditional brown colour. I showed the enforcement officer my packet of cigarettes which all had white filters. It was at this point that he backed off but was still muttering about there being a cigarette on the floor. I managed to walk away without him pursuing the matter further.
What aggrieved me was that he did not see any evidence of littering whatsoever yet still decided to try and pin the littering on me.
Anyway, just a rant really as it really pissed me off for the day. Also, the whole episode just goes to show how some people in positions of authority are willing to push their luck when trying to obtain a conviction or issue a fixed penalty.
"Sir, I'm a civil enforcement officer for Manchester council and believe I've just witnessed you dropping a cig and so need your details to issue you with a fine"
"Go f
k yourself nobhead"and then get on with your day.
CoolHands said:
What a bunch of s. Hate stuff like this - won’t fine the do as you likeys littering the local playing fields while they camp there! But jump on you for putting rubbish in a public bin or dropping a wotsit!
For the OP I’m just surprised you didn’t notice this toad hiding behind the bushes spying on you. I keep my eyes peeled for everything these days - we’re being surveilled left, right and centre.
I don’t notice him because I was stood back from the pavement out of sight of people approaching from my left. In any event, I wouldn’t have conducted myself any differently as I’d put my cigarette in the ashtray.s. Hate stuff like this - won’t fine the do as you likeys littering the local playing fields while they camp there! But jump on you for putting rubbish in a public bin or dropping a wotsit!For the OP I’m just surprised you didn’t notice this toad hiding behind the bushes spying on you. I keep my eyes peeled for everything these days - we’re being surveilled left, right and centre.
I am usually quite vigilant in that respect though and have seen many people get accosted by these cretins.
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