Event marshal’s powers on a public road
Discussion
Morning.
I live near a large stately home which holds large events with traffic control.
Whilst the Highway Code is clear on the status of temp traffic lights et al, I can’t see that Event Marshals have any particular status.
Our issue is when when a large event is being held, traffic queues up waiting to get into the venue, yet to access our road we can overtake the traffic (2-way road) without crossing a solid white line and turn right into our road.
The above is perfectly safe, however recently I had a gentleman in a high vis jacket jump into the road and attempt to order me to do a U-turn to join the back of the queue. He pointed to a sign which stated ‘police traffic order in place’ - my question is whether his instruction has any legal power?
I live near a large stately home which holds large events with traffic control.
Whilst the Highway Code is clear on the status of temp traffic lights et al, I can’t see that Event Marshals have any particular status.
Our issue is when when a large event is being held, traffic queues up waiting to get into the venue, yet to access our road we can overtake the traffic (2-way road) without crossing a solid white line and turn right into our road.
The above is perfectly safe, however recently I had a gentleman in a high vis jacket jump into the road and attempt to order me to do a U-turn to join the back of the queue. He pointed to a sign which stated ‘police traffic order in place’ - my question is whether his instruction has any legal power?
Example:
https://www.thebeacongroup.co.uk/event-safe/traffi...
"We are accredited by the Community Safety Accreditation Scheme (CSAS) meaning we have some extra powers of enforcement in certain situations.
Traffic mashals can:
Be outside the event directing traffic
inside the event directing traffic
Assiting with parking at the event"
And
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-inform...
Powers available to an accredited person
There are a range of powers a chief officer within a force area might grant, these include the power to:
request an offender’s name and address
issue a fixed penalty notice
issue a penalty notice for disorder
confiscate items such as tobacco or alcohol
direct traffic
So... maybe they will have such powers, depends if the accredited person has been authorised by the local police chief?
https://www.thebeacongroup.co.uk/event-safe/traffi...
"We are accredited by the Community Safety Accreditation Scheme (CSAS) meaning we have some extra powers of enforcement in certain situations.
Traffic mashals can:
Be outside the event directing traffic
inside the event directing traffic
Assiting with parking at the event"
And
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-inform...
Powers available to an accredited person
There are a range of powers a chief officer within a force area might grant, these include the power to:
request an offender’s name and address
issue a fixed penalty notice
issue a penalty notice for disorder
confiscate items such as tobacco or alcohol
direct traffic
So... maybe they will have such powers, depends if the accredited person has been authorised by the local police chief?
BOH said:
Morning.
I live near a large stately home which holds large events with traffic control.
Whilst the Highway Code is clear on the status of temp traffic lights et al, I can’t see that Event Marshals have any particular status.
Our issue is when when a large event is being held, traffic queues up waiting to get into the venue, yet to access our road we can overtake the traffic (2-way road) without crossing a solid white line and turn right into our road.
The above is perfectly safe, however recently I had a gentleman in a high vis jacket jump into the road and attempt to order me to do a U-turn to join the back of the queue. He pointed to a sign which stated ‘police traffic order in place’ - my question is whether his instruction has any legal power?
if it's a 2-way road isn't there a risk that you may have oncoming traffic as you overtake?I live near a large stately home which holds large events with traffic control.
Whilst the Highway Code is clear on the status of temp traffic lights et al, I can’t see that Event Marshals have any particular status.
Our issue is when when a large event is being held, traffic queues up waiting to get into the venue, yet to access our road we can overtake the traffic (2-way road) without crossing a solid white line and turn right into our road.
The above is perfectly safe, however recently I had a gentleman in a high vis jacket jump into the road and attempt to order me to do a U-turn to join the back of the queue. He pointed to a sign which stated ‘police traffic order in place’ - my question is whether his instruction has any legal power?
Sounds like the road has a solid white central line but is of sufficient width that the OP can pass along the outside of the queuing traffic without
crossing that line.
Guessing - based on the limited information we've had so far - that the chap directing the traffic thought the OP was trying to jump the queue.
Would have thought a simple conversation should resolve the issue.
crossing that line.
Guessing - based on the limited information we've had so far - that the chap directing the traffic thought the OP was trying to jump the queue.
Would have thought a simple conversation should resolve the issue.
Edited by paintman on Friday 15th September 11:58
paintman said:
Guessing - based on the limited information we've had so far - that the chap directing the traffic thought the OP was trying to jump the queue.
Would have thought a simple conversation should resolve the issue.
Exactly this.Would have thought a simple conversation should resolve the issue.
Edited by paintman on Friday 15th September 11:58
Presumably as well if the OP declined to do a U turn and instead just waited until it was clear before progressing nothing is likely to happen since i don't see any charges that would be applicable and in the unlikely event there was 1 or more, than i can't see it sticking in court given the OP's reason.
Perhaps OP could contact whoever owns the stately home or whoever runs this recurring event, asking that they give advice to their marshals on allowing residents to access their homes without obstruction. Event organisers rely to some extent on the goodwill of the local community, so they ought to be trying to minimise the inconvenience caused by the event to neighbours.
I have from time to time done event marshalling for a company that gets a lot of large events Glastonbury festival, they are doing horse trials currently.
Details of the scheme is here>
https://www.policecsas.com/training#:~:text=To%20a...
These people have high viz with police accredited traffic officer, I worked with some this last Saturday!
If there is an issue in my experience these events teams will be under pressure to not allow large ques or build ups of traffic on the public roads and police will monitor this carefully. I did an event this weekend as it happens as I help out company that gets drop outs as I know some of the key people.
They have some people in various areas that go on a police accredited course to carry out traffic management on public highway, they don't let anyone do this and your certification is only valid if the local police say they are happy with the accredited course and force area you did training in.
They also have Lantra Carded people they used on some closed routes but live open roads you have to be police accredited.
Most forces are running courses that allow private TM companies, I have also known private crews who are police approved for power stations etc to carry out large scale equipment movements.
I know they are currently doing Blenhiem Palace Horse Trials, thats not near the OP is it?
Details of the scheme is here>
https://www.policecsas.com/training#:~:text=To%20a...
These people have high viz with police accredited traffic officer, I worked with some this last Saturday!
If there is an issue in my experience these events teams will be under pressure to not allow large ques or build ups of traffic on the public roads and police will monitor this carefully. I did an event this weekend as it happens as I help out company that gets drop outs as I know some of the key people.
They have some people in various areas that go on a police accredited course to carry out traffic management on public highway, they don't let anyone do this and your certification is only valid if the local police say they are happy with the accredited course and force area you did training in.
They also have Lantra Carded people they used on some closed routes but live open roads you have to be police accredited.
Most forces are running courses that allow private TM companies, I have also known private crews who are police approved for power stations etc to carry out large scale equipment movements.
I know they are currently doing Blenhiem Palace Horse Trials, thats not near the OP is it?
Edited by Victory_RS on Monday 18th September 11:39
sounds like the OP would be driving on the wrong side of the road, otherwise the event would run 2 lanes of traffic.
Because the event traffic is queued if somebody turned towards OP its unlikely he'd be able to pull into a gap to get out of the way. The last thing the event wants is OP having a accident with somebody coming out of the event who was unable to see because of the huge line of traffic on the correct side. Same applies to somebody wanting to turn left from his road, the may not look up the road as they can see standing traffic and there is nothing coming from the right.
An accident would stop traffic for longer and see questions asked of the management plan.
The pragmatic approach is probably to have a marshall opposite any potential entrance to control traffic and somebody at the tail of the queue with a radio to announce somebody passing but that's more people and more cost.
Because the event traffic is queued if somebody turned towards OP its unlikely he'd be able to pull into a gap to get out of the way. The last thing the event wants is OP having a accident with somebody coming out of the event who was unable to see because of the huge line of traffic on the correct side. Same applies to somebody wanting to turn left from his road, the may not look up the road as they can see standing traffic and there is nothing coming from the right.
An accident would stop traffic for longer and see questions asked of the management plan.
The pragmatic approach is probably to have a marshall opposite any potential entrance to control traffic and somebody at the tail of the queue with a radio to announce somebody passing but that's more people and more cost.
paintman said:
Sounds like the road has a solid white central line but is of sufficient width that the OP can pass along the outside of the queuing traffic without
crossing that line.
Guessing - based on the limited information we've had so far - that the chap directing the traffic thought the OP was trying to jump the queue.
Would have thought a simple conversation should resolve the issue.
A simple right turn indicator may even have forestalled any conversation.crossing that line.
Guessing - based on the limited information we've had so far - that the chap directing the traffic thought the OP was trying to jump the queue.
Would have thought a simple conversation should resolve the issue.
Edited by paintman on Friday 15th September 11:58
For the avoidance of doubt, I was overtaking slowly (<30mph) and as far as I can assert, I.a.w. The Highway Code - I didn’t straddle a solid white line, had ample visibility and there was plenty of space for oncoming vehicles to pass safely.
I was completely polite; I thanked the individual for his advice but chose to ignore it.
Interestingly Highway Code rule 105 seems to suggest that only certain persons can give mandatory signals: “Rule 105. You MUST obey signals given by police officers, traffic officers, traffic wardens (see 'Signals by authorised persons') and signs used by school crossing patrols” - so signals by anyone not in those categories can be treated as advisory-only.
I was completely polite; I thanked the individual for his advice but chose to ignore it.
Interestingly Highway Code rule 105 seems to suggest that only certain persons can give mandatory signals: “Rule 105. You MUST obey signals given by police officers, traffic officers, traffic wardens (see 'Signals by authorised persons') and signs used by school crossing patrols” - so signals by anyone not in those categories can be treated as advisory-only.
There is ambiguity here. The phrase ‘authorised persons’ appears in some entries but not others.
The following shows four groups - police officers, traffic officers, DVSA officers and school crossing patrols. Events staff aren’t mentioned.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/560...
The following shows four groups - police officers, traffic officers, DVSA officers and school crossing patrols. Events staff aren’t mentioned.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/560...
BOH said:
There is ambiguity here. The phrase ‘authorised persons’ appears in some entries but not others.
The following shows four groups - police officers, traffic officers, DVSA officers and school crossing patrols. Events staff aren’t mentioned.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/560...
Not all govt assets are 100% up to date, The Met Police link I posted looks pretty accurate.The following shows four groups - police officers, traffic officers, DVSA officers and school crossing patrols. Events staff aren’t mentioned.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/560...
vaud said:
Not all govt assets are 100% up to date, The Met Police link I posted looks pretty accurate.
That may be the case. The latest version of the Highway Code, although not itself the law, doesn’t extend mandatory compliance with hand-signals (or other instructions) beyond the 4 groups mentioned. As a member of the public, it would be unreasonable to expect knowledge deeper than the HC.Tigerj said:
How many cars in the queue are you going 10 meters or a 100?
Because if the later, even if you are legally allowed to. Going past a large stationary queue when you know pedestrians are in the road at any sort of speed seems unwise.
Somewhere between 10 and 100 cars. I can’t see the relevance of this. I overtook a number of cars queuing to enter a private premises.Because if the later, even if you are legally allowed to. Going past a large stationary queue when you know pedestrians are in the road at any sort of speed seems unwise.
Speed was near to 20mph than 30mph. No pedestrians were present.
The guy was on a power trip.
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