Leak - Neighbour refusing to use insurance
Discussion
I have a friend at work who has just bought his first property, it's a maisonette in a building consisting of two, him owning the top floors.
He has been moved in less than a month and unfortunately had a water leak from a pipe that suddenly burst (not sure if from a join) but had a plumber out that evening to fix the issue. This was on a Saturday and there was a suspicion the leak wasn't resolved so that plumber was back out on the Monday. Following this, my friend has appointed a chap to survey the damage to his own property and to that of the neighbour below. So he has been attentive in the matter the whole way along, he has also informed his home insurance.
The neighbour on the other hand is being extremely difficult. Sending e-mails basically telling them that he's spoken to his insurance, they have informed him they won't be able to claim the cost back therefore he is refusing to make a claim because he doesn't want to pay the excess or have his premium go up. Therefore he is coming after this friend for the cost and says he has been negligent.
Anyone ever encountered this or have advice? I said to just let his insurance deal with it but the guy is quite aggressive pushy with his points.
There was a red flag from the neighbour the first few days after my friend moved in, where he showed him a piece of paper the previous resident signed which he also wanted them to sign, giving their full permission to any work or extension he wants to do. Very strange.
Any advice would be really helpful, this guy is young and just bought his first place with his partner. It feels very much like this guy wants to claim as much as he can from them and insists they pay because their insurance he insists won't.
He has been moved in less than a month and unfortunately had a water leak from a pipe that suddenly burst (not sure if from a join) but had a plumber out that evening to fix the issue. This was on a Saturday and there was a suspicion the leak wasn't resolved so that plumber was back out on the Monday. Following this, my friend has appointed a chap to survey the damage to his own property and to that of the neighbour below. So he has been attentive in the matter the whole way along, he has also informed his home insurance.
The neighbour on the other hand is being extremely difficult. Sending e-mails basically telling them that he's spoken to his insurance, they have informed him they won't be able to claim the cost back therefore he is refusing to make a claim because he doesn't want to pay the excess or have his premium go up. Therefore he is coming after this friend for the cost and says he has been negligent.
Anyone ever encountered this or have advice? I said to just let his insurance deal with it but the guy is quite aggressive pushy with his points.
There was a red flag from the neighbour the first few days after my friend moved in, where he showed him a piece of paper the previous resident signed which he also wanted them to sign, giving their full permission to any work or extension he wants to do. Very strange.
Any advice would be really helpful, this guy is young and just bought his first place with his partner. It feels very much like this guy wants to claim as much as he can from them and insists they pay because their insurance he insists won't.
I would have thought that the neighbour whilst should be claiming off his own Insurance simply doesn't want to and thinks that your friends Insurance is not going to cost him anything to resolve.
If the neighbour does claim off his own Insurance then they in turn will probably try and subrogate against your friends Insurance but that's not going to be easy to persuade the neighbour about and of course not guaranteed anyway.
If there was no Insurance that the neighbour carried then your friends insurance should pay his loss accordingly seeing as the proximate cause of loss was from your friends flat but again this isn't guaranteed although I'd be surprised if it wasn't paid.
I don't think there is anything that your friend can do to persuade said neighbour other than to perhaps to politely point out the facts.
If the neighbour does claim off his own Insurance then they in turn will probably try and subrogate against your friends Insurance but that's not going to be easy to persuade the neighbour about and of course not guaranteed anyway.
If there was no Insurance that the neighbour carried then your friends insurance should pay his loss accordingly seeing as the proximate cause of loss was from your friends flat but again this isn't guaranteed although I'd be surprised if it wasn't paid.
I don't think there is anything that your friend can do to persuade said neighbour other than to perhaps to politely point out the facts.
When we moved into our new (to us) flat there had been a water leak from upstairs which damaged our ceiling.
We didn't have to pay anything towards repairs - they sent a chap to repair and paint our ceiling at their expense (not sure if they claimed off insurance) however I don't see why the downstairs person should claim off their insurance for damage caused by a leak from above?
We didn't have to pay anything towards repairs - they sent a chap to repair and paint our ceiling at their expense (not sure if they claimed off insurance) however I don't see why the downstairs person should claim off their insurance for damage caused by a leak from above?
It just needs to be handed over to the insurance company. It's no more complicated than that.
The neighbour will be unable to claim from the insurance company directly because they will insist that they deal only with his own insurance company. At that point it's up to him if he claims off his own insurance or not.
The neighbour will be unable to claim from the insurance company directly because they will insist that they deal only with his own insurance company. At that point it's up to him if he claims off his own insurance or not.
The broad facts are that your friend is not liable for damage to his neighbour's property unless has has been negligent. The neighbour's insurers are aware of this, which is why they've said they will be unable to recover the funds. Your friends insurance also will not cover this for exactly the same reason - he hasn't been negligent so has no liability, so his insurance isn't relevant.
It's an unpleasant situation to be in but your friend is legally in the right here and, assuming he doesn't just want to roll over for the sake of neighbourly relations, he is entirely entitled to tell the neighbour to get lost and claim on his insurance, as this is exactly why he has it in the first place.
But that's simply the legal position and your friend needs to weigh that up against the fact that he's going to have live next to this person for potentially some time yet.
It's an unpleasant situation to be in but your friend is legally in the right here and, assuming he doesn't just want to roll over for the sake of neighbourly relations, he is entirely entitled to tell the neighbour to get lost and claim on his insurance, as this is exactly why he has it in the first place.
But that's simply the legal position and your friend needs to weigh that up against the fact that he's going to have live next to this person for potentially some time yet.
Thank you for all the helpful comments, all really useful. 
My friend has even given the chap the insurance details for him to speak to them directly should he wish.
So I assume by the same token, if this guy tried to go to court directly with my friend, he'd be in the same situation and it wouldn't be in a position to claim off him directly? The proof is there that my friend hasn't been negligent which this guy clearly knows.
The reason my friend is hesitant with the guy is that he's sent videos of things from his property, his wardrobe has been destroyed by him trying to move it, he's saying he was going to drill holes in the ceiling to let the water drain etc. There's a strong suspicion he wants to get as much out of a claim as absolutely possible.
My friend has even given the chap the insurance details for him to speak to them directly should he wish.
deckster said:
The broad facts are that your friend is not liable for damage to his neighbour's property unless has has been negligent. The neighbour's insurers are aware of this, which is why they've said they will be unable to recover the funds. Your friends insurance also will not cover this for exactly the same reason - he hasn't been negligent so has no liability, so his insurance isn't relevant.
It's an unpleasant situation to be in but your friend is legally in the right here and, assuming he doesn't just want to roll over for the sake of neighbourly relations, he is entirely entitled to tell the neighbour to get lost and claim on his insurance, as this is exactly why he has it in the first place.
But that's simply the legal position and your friend needs to weigh that up against the fact that he's going to have live next to this person for potentially some time yet.
That seems to be exactly the situation, legally my friend isn't liable and this guy really has to go through his own insurance. It's an unpleasant situation to be in but your friend is legally in the right here and, assuming he doesn't just want to roll over for the sake of neighbourly relations, he is entirely entitled to tell the neighbour to get lost and claim on his insurance, as this is exactly why he has it in the first place.
But that's simply the legal position and your friend needs to weigh that up against the fact that he's going to have live next to this person for potentially some time yet.
So I assume by the same token, if this guy tried to go to court directly with my friend, he'd be in the same situation and it wouldn't be in a position to claim off him directly? The proof is there that my friend hasn't been negligent which this guy clearly knows.
The reason my friend is hesitant with the guy is that he's sent videos of things from his property, his wardrobe has been destroyed by him trying to move it, he's saying he was going to drill holes in the ceiling to let the water drain etc. There's a strong suspicion he wants to get as much out of a claim as absolutely possible.
To be fair to the neighbour though, if the leak wasn't fixed until the Monday there could be quite a bit of damage, and maybe the case of negligence, or not, might not be quite so straight forward.
If it was the other way round what would your friend feel the correct course of action should be?
Maybe the plumber has some responsibility and should have public liability insurance.
If it was the other way round what would your friend feel the correct course of action should be?
Maybe the plumber has some responsibility and should have public liability insurance.
Monkeylegend said:
To be fair to the neighbour though, if the leak wasn't fixed until the Monday there could be quite a bit of damage, and maybe the case of negligence, or not, might not be quite so straight forward.
If it was the other way round what would your friend feel the correct course of action should be?
It's all insured, you speak to your insurer, they speak to the insurer who holds liability, they decide between them who will sort it out and whether to have a fight amongst themselves over liability. It all gets fixed, everyone moves on.If it was the other way round what would your friend feel the correct course of action should be?
Monkeylegend said:
To be fair to the neighbour though, if the leak wasn't fixed until the Monday there could be quite a bit of damage, and maybe the case of negligence, or not, might not be quite so straight forward.
It was a major leak on the Saturday, water literally gushing for about an hour so potentially a fair bit of a damage as you say. Plumber attended and resolved that issue. Was hard to know if the additional dripping was a continued leak or residual water from the first leak. I'd say plumber out immediately and attending within a day or realising it may be more isn't entirely negligent but my opinion doesn't count for much haha.
TonyRPH said:
When we moved into our new (to us) flat there had been a water leak from upstairs which damaged our ceiling.
We didn't have to pay anything towards repairs - they sent a chap to repair and paint our ceiling at their expense (not sure if they claimed off insurance) however I don't see why the downstairs person should claim off their insurance for damage caused by a leak from above?
Depends if the leak was caused by negligence. Doesn't sound as if it was, no unreasonable delays, Etc.We didn't have to pay anything towards repairs - they sent a chap to repair and paint our ceiling at their expense (not sure if they claimed off insurance) however I don't see why the downstairs person should claim off their insurance for damage caused by a leak from above?
That's what the insurance is for. Possible, of course the downstairs isn't actually insured...
Alex_225 said:
had a water leak from a pipe that suddenly burst (stuff)
The neighbour on the other hand is being extremely difficult. Sending e-mails basically telling them that he's spoken to his insurance, they have informed him they won't be able to claim the cost back therefore he is refusing to make a claim because he doesn't want to pay the excess or have his premium go up. Therefore he is coming after this friend for the cost and says he has been negligent.
The point is, your friend has not been negligent. He hasn't done anything wrong. Just because your property damages someone else's property doesn't ,mean you're responsible. There has to be negligence. The neighbour on the other hand is being extremely difficult. Sending e-mails basically telling them that he's spoken to his insurance, they have informed him they won't be able to claim the cost back therefore he is refusing to make a claim because he doesn't want to pay the excess or have his premium go up. Therefore he is coming after this friend for the cost and says he has been negligent.
That's why the neighbour's insurer has told him they won't be able claim off your friend, because they realise there's no negligence. Your friend needs to tell his neighbour he won't be paying out himself If the neighbour doesn't want to claim off his own insurance, he can try and claim directly off your friend's insurance (who will tell him to f
k off as your friend wasn't negligent and the third party liability part of the policy only covers legal liability, and without negligence he isn't legally liable) or sue you friend (and he'll lose because your friend wasn't negligent so is not legally liable). The neighbour eventually, will either have to claim off his own policy, or pay himself. I don't think there's anything to add, other than a lot of people don't really understand insurance and liability.
People are frequently amazed, for example, that if you skid on black ice and cause damage it's not necessarily the case that your insurance will pay out to the 3rd party.
People are frequently amazed, for example, that if you skid on black ice and cause damage it's not necessarily the case that your insurance will pay out to the 3rd party.
Edited by PorkInsider on Wednesday 20th September 12:05
PorkInsider said:
I don't think there's anything to add, other than a lot of people don't really understand insurance and liability.
People are frequently amazed, for example, that if you skid on black ice and hit someone's car causing damage it's not necessarily the case that your insurance will pay out to the 3rd party.
Poor example. No one else skidded into him. And even with black ice, go slowly enough in the conditions and you'll usually be fine. People are frequently amazed, for example, that if you skid on black ice and hit someone's car causing damage it's not necessarily the case that your insurance will pay out to the 3rd party.
Better example, you get hit up the rear at speed and pushed into the car in front. Car that hits you drives off. Your insurer will pay your damage if you have comp, but they won't pay for the car you hit, as you weren't negligent. If he doesn't want to claim off his own policy, or if he doesn't have comp cover, it's his tough luck.
eldar said:
TonyRPH said:
When we moved into our new (to us) flat there had been a water leak from upstairs which damaged our ceiling.
We didn't have to pay anything towards repairs - they sent a chap to repair and paint our ceiling at their expense (not sure if they claimed off insurance) however I don't see why the downstairs person should claim off their insurance for damage caused by a leak from above?
Depends if the leak was caused by negligence. Doesn't sound as if it was, no unreasonable delays, Etc.We didn't have to pay anything towards repairs - they sent a chap to repair and paint our ceiling at their expense (not sure if they claimed off insurance) however I don't see why the downstairs person should claim off their insurance for damage caused by a leak from above?
That's what the insurance is for. Possible, of course the downstairs isn't actually insured...
The best advice to anyone looking at a property with such an arrangement is to run a mile from it. As soon as you dont get on with your neighbour its a nightmare
Alex_225 said:
Thank you for all the helpful comments, all really useful.
My friend has even given the chap the insurance details for him to speak to them directly should he wish.
So I assume by the same token, if this guy tried to go to court directly with my friend, he'd be in the same situation and it wouldn't be in a position to claim off him directly? The proof is there that my friend hasn't been negligent which this guy clearly knows.
The reason my friend is hesitant with the guy is that he's sent videos of things from his property, his wardrobe has been destroyed by him trying to move it, he's saying he was going to drill holes in the ceiling to let the water drain etc. There's a strong suspicion he wants to get as much out of a claim as absolutely possible.
If this is a maisonette without a management company what is the legal agreement in place between the two occupiers to cover the cost of buildings insurance and to enforce the lease during issues like this?My friend has even given the chap the insurance details for him to speak to them directly should he wish.
deckster said:
The broad facts are that your friend is not liable for damage to his neighbour's property unless has has been negligent. The neighbour's insurers are aware of this, which is why they've said they will be unable to recover the funds. Your friends insurance also will not cover this for exactly the same reason - he hasn't been negligent so has no liability, so his insurance isn't relevant.
It's an unpleasant situation to be in but your friend is legally in the right here and, assuming he doesn't just want to roll over for the sake of neighbourly relations, he is entirely entitled to tell the neighbour to get lost and claim on his insurance, as this is exactly why he has it in the first place.
But that's simply the legal position and your friend needs to weigh that up against the fact that he's going to have live next to this person for potentially some time yet.
That seems to be exactly the situation, legally my friend isn't liable and this guy really has to go through his own insurance. It's an unpleasant situation to be in but your friend is legally in the right here and, assuming he doesn't just want to roll over for the sake of neighbourly relations, he is entirely entitled to tell the neighbour to get lost and claim on his insurance, as this is exactly why he has it in the first place.
But that's simply the legal position and your friend needs to weigh that up against the fact that he's going to have live next to this person for potentially some time yet.
So I assume by the same token, if this guy tried to go to court directly with my friend, he'd be in the same situation and it wouldn't be in a position to claim off him directly? The proof is there that my friend hasn't been negligent which this guy clearly knows.
The reason my friend is hesitant with the guy is that he's sent videos of things from his property, his wardrobe has been destroyed by him trying to move it, he's saying he was going to drill holes in the ceiling to let the water drain etc. There's a strong suspicion he wants to get as much out of a claim as absolutely possible.
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