Access to a Property in Trust
Discussion
House is in trust. Old man passed away and his widow continues to live there.
In his will, he left the family house to his only child, a daughter. The Deed of Trust states that his widow can live there until she pegs out, but during that time, his daughter can convert the house into flats if she wants to. His widow is not his daughter's mother (birth mother died many years ago).
Given that the property is in trust, viewed as an asset, it needs to be maintained. Step mum isn't cooperative and the relationship between her and her step daughter has never been good. It is what it is and she can stay in the house as per old man's wishes. The trouble is, the house does need looking after (had some damp issues several years ago) and she's put a wall up around herself. She is not returning calls and has blocked WhatsApp comms too, clearly indicating that she isn't willing to play ball. She's delaying the inevitable in my opinion.
There is a longer term view that step mum could live for another 20 years (who knows, maybe more) as she is 76, and she's in a house way too big for single occupancy so why not make best use of it by splitting it. This will also benefit her as she can have her own, smaller space and still be very comfortable (it's a big house).
The first step is to have the house surveyed. This will give a good indication of its general condition. Daughter has key, but despite asking step mum for her availability, she's not responding. The question is twofold: firstly, if she isn't available, or refuses to communicate, can the house be accessed (daughter has key). Secondly, can the step mum change the locks, which wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't already?
In his will, he left the family house to his only child, a daughter. The Deed of Trust states that his widow can live there until she pegs out, but during that time, his daughter can convert the house into flats if she wants to. His widow is not his daughter's mother (birth mother died many years ago).
Given that the property is in trust, viewed as an asset, it needs to be maintained. Step mum isn't cooperative and the relationship between her and her step daughter has never been good. It is what it is and she can stay in the house as per old man's wishes. The trouble is, the house does need looking after (had some damp issues several years ago) and she's put a wall up around herself. She is not returning calls and has blocked WhatsApp comms too, clearly indicating that she isn't willing to play ball. She's delaying the inevitable in my opinion.
There is a longer term view that step mum could live for another 20 years (who knows, maybe more) as she is 76, and she's in a house way too big for single occupancy so why not make best use of it by splitting it. This will also benefit her as she can have her own, smaller space and still be very comfortable (it's a big house).
The first step is to have the house surveyed. This will give a good indication of its general condition. Daughter has key, but despite asking step mum for her availability, she's not responding. The question is twofold: firstly, if she isn't available, or refuses to communicate, can the house be accessed (daughter has key). Secondly, can the step mum change the locks, which wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't already?
darreni said:
You need to check the trust deed. A solicitor that specializes in trusts would be a good idea too.
Good shout, and that has happened. They're not cheap! One wanted £650 + VAT per hour. Managed to get some good advice from a friend in the legal business and I guess it would have to go legal if the locks are changed or if Resident Evil digs her heels in. Hence the thread. The daughter should not attempt to access the property without the agreement of the occupier who appears to be in possession of it. The advisor I had on a Will trust was competent and effective and cost around £200 per hour plus VAT. Costs mount when the advice of counsel is sought and when any dispute becomes protracted but I don't see the need to pay £650 per hour. What part of the country is she in?
My wife has a similar setup on her parents house. When her Mum died 50% of the house went into Trust of which my wife is sole beneficiary, her Dad has right to tenancy of my wife's 50% until his death. His 50% share is also in the Trust but we don't know what his intentions are with his will.
He got into a relationship with his cleaner, 25 years younger than him and only 6 years old than my wife and she moved in. My wife had a chat with the solicitor who drew up the Trust and he couldn't really give any concrete answers on what happens if his cleaner wanted to stay in the house after my wife's Dad passes i.e. could he pass his right to tenency of my wife's share to his cleaner on his death for example. We never got an answer and it became a wait and see what happens game.
Fortunately the cleaner ended up moving back out and back to her coucnil house when she got wind her Dad didn't own the whole house and that his daughter already had a 50% share and would be wanting it on his death. Cleaner still hangs around and her furniture is still in the house.
Like you OP we wouldn't want to be responsible for it's upkeep if the cleaner remained living in the property for basically the rest of my wife's life as they are a similar age. The propery is a 6 bedroom bungalow sitting in 30 acres of land as it was a working small holding - it would cost us a fortune to upkeep.
He got into a relationship with his cleaner, 25 years younger than him and only 6 years old than my wife and she moved in. My wife had a chat with the solicitor who drew up the Trust and he couldn't really give any concrete answers on what happens if his cleaner wanted to stay in the house after my wife's Dad passes i.e. could he pass his right to tenency of my wife's share to his cleaner on his death for example. We never got an answer and it became a wait and see what happens game.
Fortunately the cleaner ended up moving back out and back to her coucnil house when she got wind her Dad didn't own the whole house and that his daughter already had a 50% share and would be wanting it on his death. Cleaner still hangs around and her furniture is still in the house.
Like you OP we wouldn't want to be responsible for it's upkeep if the cleaner remained living in the property for basically the rest of my wife's life as they are a similar age. The propery is a 6 bedroom bungalow sitting in 30 acres of land as it was a working small holding - it would cost us a fortune to upkeep.
It's a big house and daughter is keen to do what she is entitled to, and that is, convert. In an ideal world the step mum agrees to sell the whole house and moves into a place of her own which can be bought from the sale. She states that you'll be dragging her dead body out of there; she's that stubborn.
Long term, the whole house goes to the daughter after the step mum dies anyway. They first met when the daughter was a young teen and the step mum (no kids of here own) has always been horrible. Ignoring all attempts to contact her is just her being the way she's always been: non-cooperative and spiteful.
Long term, the whole house goes to the daughter after the step mum dies anyway. They first met when the daughter was a young teen and the step mum (no kids of here own) has always been horrible. Ignoring all attempts to contact her is just her being the way she's always been: non-cooperative and spiteful.
Glassman said:
It's a big house and daughter is keen to do what she is entitled to...step mum...states that you'll be dragging her dead body out of there; she's that stubborn.
In fairness, it sounds like the deed of trust perhaps wasn't thoroughly thought through, leading to a messy situation.DP14 said:
Glassman said:
It's a big house and daughter is keen to do what she is entitled to...step mum...states that you'll be dragging her dead body out of there; she's that stubborn.
In fairness, it sounds like the deed of trust perhaps wasn't thoroughly thought through, leading to a messy situation.Glassman said:
House is in trust. Old man passed away and his widow continues to live there.
In his will, he left the family house to his only child, a daughter. The Deed of Trust states that his widow can live there until she pegs out, but during that time, his daughter can convert the house into flats if she wants to. His widow is not his daughter's mother (birth mother died many years ago).
Given that the property is in trust, viewed as an asset, it needs to be maintained. Step mum isn't cooperative and the relationship between her and her step daughter has never been good. It is what it is and she can stay in the house as per old man's wishes. The trouble is, the house does need looking after (had some damp issues several years ago) and she's put a wall up around herself. She is not returning calls and has blocked WhatsApp comms too, clearly indicating that she isn't willing to play ball. She's delaying the inevitable in my opinion.
There is a longer term view that step mum could live for another 20 years (who knows, maybe more) as she is 76, and she's in a house way too big for single occupancy so why not make best use of it by splitting it. This will also benefit her as she can have her own, smaller space and still be very comfortable (it's a big house).
The first step is to have the house surveyed. This will give a good indication of its general condition. Daughter has key, but despite asking step mum for her availability, she's not responding. The question is twofold: firstly, if she isn't available, or refuses to communicate, can the house be accessed (daughter has key). Secondly, can the step mum change the locks, which wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't already?
Is the daughter your wife/partner and you’re sore that you’re unable to benefit from the inheritance at the moment?In his will, he left the family house to his only child, a daughter. The Deed of Trust states that his widow can live there until she pegs out, but during that time, his daughter can convert the house into flats if she wants to. His widow is not his daughter's mother (birth mother died many years ago).
Given that the property is in trust, viewed as an asset, it needs to be maintained. Step mum isn't cooperative and the relationship between her and her step daughter has never been good. It is what it is and she can stay in the house as per old man's wishes. The trouble is, the house does need looking after (had some damp issues several years ago) and she's put a wall up around herself. She is not returning calls and has blocked WhatsApp comms too, clearly indicating that she isn't willing to play ball. She's delaying the inevitable in my opinion.
There is a longer term view that step mum could live for another 20 years (who knows, maybe more) as she is 76, and she's in a house way too big for single occupancy so why not make best use of it by splitting it. This will also benefit her as she can have her own, smaller space and still be very comfortable (it's a big house).
The first step is to have the house surveyed. This will give a good indication of its general condition. Daughter has key, but despite asking step mum for her availability, she's not responding. The question is twofold: firstly, if she isn't available, or refuses to communicate, can the house be accessed (daughter has key). Secondly, can the step mum change the locks, which wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't already?
Glassman said:
DP14 said:
Glassman said:
It's a big house and daughter is keen to do what she is entitled to...step mum...states that you'll be dragging her dead body out of there; she's that stubborn.
In fairness, it sounds like the deed of trust perhaps wasn't thoroughly thought through, leading to a messy situation.(i) the wife was given the right to remain in the property until her death
(ii) the kids were given the property once the mum had passed away
AIUI the wife couldn't sell any part of the property and the kids couldnt do anything until she'd died or gone into care.
OP - did the father's will specify how much of the property could be converted into flats? is there anything to stop her daughter converting 99% of the property into flats and effectively leaving her stepmum in a bedsit ? Giving her the right to convert into flats seems a bit open ended. And although you say she'll be better off in a smaller property I think everybody would prefer a Large property rather than a small property if they had the choice.
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