Placing a caveat against probate

[andyA700]

I am contesting a will and back in August just two days after the person's death had been registered, I placed a caveat against probate (as advised by my solicitor), which should have stopped probate being granted, so that we can find out exactly what is in the will.
However, I found out yesterday that probate was granted in early September.
My solicitor is on the case, because surely this is illegal?
Any solicitors around to give me their view would be really appreciated.

[LimmerickLad]

Did you get a confirmation document with a Caveat Number from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service - Probate Registry?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Saturday 28th October 14:50

[andyA700]

LimmerickLad said:

Did you get a confirmation document with a Caveat Number from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service - Probate Registry?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Saturday 28th October 14:50

Yes.

[LimmerickLad]

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

Did you get a confirmation document with a Caveat Number from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service - Probate Registry?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Saturday 28th October 14:50

Yes.

So you didn't recieve a "Warning" nor submit an "appearance" I assume?

[andyA700]

LimmerickLad said:

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

Did you get a confirmation document with a Caveat Number from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service - Probate Registry?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Saturday 28th October 14:50

Yes.

So you didn't recieve a "Warning" nor submit an "appearance" I assume?

Nothing at all, just an email confirmation when I placed it. Not a peep from the executor or their solicitor. It was late yesterday when my solicitor emailed me, he is back at work on Tuesday.

[LimmerickLad]

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

Did you get a confirmation document with a Caveat Number from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service - Probate Registry?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Saturday 28th October 14:50

Yes.

So you didn't recieve a "Warning" nor submit an "appearance" I assume?

Nothing at all, just an email confirmation when I placed it. Not a peep from the executor or their solicitor. It was late yesterday when my solicitor emailed me, he is back at work on Tuesday.

Did you actually get a hard copy or was this sent to your solicitor and he emailed you confirmation /copy? IIRC I was posted a hardcopy which I still have on file.


If all the info was correct i.e. name, date of death etc then my guess would be someone in the Court has fooked up.

[andyA700]

LimmerickLad said:

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

Did you get a confirmation document with a Caveat Number from the HM Courts & Tribunals Service - Probate Registry?

Edited by LimmerickLad on Saturday 28th October 14:50

Yes.

So you didn't recieve a "Warning" nor submit an "appearance" I assume?

Nothing at all, just an email confirmation when I placed it. Not a peep from the executor or their solicitor. It was late yesterday when my solicitor emailed me, he is back at work on Tuesday.

Did you actually get a hard copy or was this sent to your solicitor and he emailed you confirmation /copy? IIRC I was posted a hardcopy which I still have on file.


If all the info was correct i.e. name, date of death etc then my guess would be someone in the Court has fooked up.

He emailed me a copy of the grant of probate and all the deceased details check out. I am still stunned about it.

[Zeeky]

Maybe you didn't receive the warning. If that is the case you wouldn't have 'entered an appearance' and then probate could be granted. The warning is produced by the court but sent to the applicant for service on you. The validity of the Will can still be challenged.

[andyA700]

Zeeky said:

Maybe you didn't receive the warning. If that is the case you wouldn't have 'entered an appearance' and then probate could be granted. The warning is produced by the court but sent to the applicant for service on you. The validity of the Will can still be challenged.

That seems to me to be a highly flawed way of doing things. By "applicant", I assume you mean the person applying for grant of probate? If that is the case, then that person has not responded to any of my communications since January this year. The person in question is according to the will, going to get the whole estate, therefore they would gain an advantage from not warning me.

[Caddyshack]

andyA700 said:

Zeeky said:

Maybe you didn't receive the warning. If that is the case you wouldn't have 'entered an appearance' and then probate could be granted. The warning is produced by the court but sent to the applicant for service on you. The validity of the Will can still be challenged.

That seems to me to be a highly flawed way of doing things. By "applicant", I assume you mean the person applying for grant of probate? If that is the case, then that person has not responded to any of my communications since January this year. The person in question is according to the will, going to get the whole estate, therefore they would gain an advantage from not warning me.

I assumed they meant the person that applied for the note to be added but you may be correct, I agree that it is flawed however the laws for being an executor and for messing with probate are pretty harsh so it would be foolish to ignore.

Either way, I wouldn’t get too hung up on it, they may have just allowed extra rope to hang themselves and you can contest the Will anyway. Once probate has been granted then you should be able to view the will as a public record.

[andyA700]

Caddyshack said:

andyA700 said:

Zeeky said:

Maybe you didn't receive the warning. If that is the case you wouldn't have 'entered an appearance' and then probate could be granted. The warning is produced by the court but sent to the applicant for service on you. The validity of the Will can still be challenged.

That seems to me to be a highly flawed way of doing things. By "applicant", I assume you mean the person applying for grant of probate? If that is the case, then that person has not responded to any of my communications since January this year. The person in question is according to the will, going to get the whole estate, therefore they would gain an advantage from not warning me.

I assumed they meant the person that applied for the note to be added but you may be correct, I agree that it is flawed however the laws for being an executor and for messing with probate are pretty harsh so it would be foolish to ignore.

Either way, I wouldn’t get too hung up on it, they may have just allowed extra rope to hang themselves and you can contest the Will anyway. Once probate has been granted then you should be able to view the will as a public record.

I have already been emailed a copy of the will and the executor is the sole beneficiary.

[LimmerickLad]

andyA700 said:

Caddyshack said:

andyA700 said:

Zeeky said:

Maybe you didn't receive the warning. If that is the case you wouldn't have 'entered an appearance' and then probate could be granted. The warning is produced by the court but sent to the applicant for service on you. The validity of the Will can still be challenged.

That seems to me to be a highly flawed way of doing things. By "applicant", I assume you mean the person applying for grant of probate? If that is the case, then that person has not responded to any of my communications since January this year. The person in question is according to the will, going to get the whole estate, therefore they would gain an advantage from not warning me.

I assumed they meant the person that applied for the note to be added but you may be correct, I agree that it is flawed however the laws for being an executor and for messing with probate are pretty harsh so it would be foolish to ignore.

Either way, I wouldn’t get too hung up on it, they may have just allowed extra rope to hang themselves and you can contest the Will anyway. Once probate has been granted then you should be able to view the will as a public record.

I have already been emailed a copy of the will and the executor is the sole beneficiary.

IANAL but I would say the Court would / should not award Probate until the Caveat is removed so fail to see how he has now got Probate unless your Caveat isn't registered on their database...........however I believe it is still possible to challenge the Will even after Probate has been awarded.

Edited by LimmerickLad on Sunday 29th October 13:56

Edited by LimmerickLad on Sunday 29th October 13:57

[Pro Bono]

andyA700 said:

I am contesting a will and back in August just two days after the person's death had been registered, I placed a caveat against probate (as advised by my solicitor), which should have stopped probate being granted, so that we can find out exactly what is in the will.
However, I found out yesterday that probate was granted in early September.
My solicitor is on the case, because surely this is illegal?
Any solicitors around to give me their view would be really appreciated.

What strikes me as particularly odd is that she died in August yet probate was granted in September. That's incredibly quick. I deal with many applications for probate, and especially since the pandemic the fastest I can recall recently took about 6 weeks.

I can't imagine how a grant was issued that quickly unless the executor managed to convince the Probate Registry that there was some really serious urgency.

But it is what it is, so I can only surmise that the caveat wasn't actually registered until after the grant was issued, or at least that even if it had been received it hadn't been registered in time to stop the grant.

It doesn't stop you contesting the Will - what you would now be seeking is to revoke the grant.

But on what grounds are you intending to contest it? You'll need very good evidence, as overturning a Will is extremely difficult.

[Zeeky]

andyA700 said:

Zeeky said:

Maybe you didn't receive the warning. If that is the case you wouldn't have 'entered an appearance' and then probate could be granted. The warning is produced by the court but sent to the applicant for service on you. The validity of the Will can still be challenged.

That seems to me to be a highly flawed way of doing things. By "applicant", I assume you mean the person applying for grant of probate? If that is the case, then that person has not responded to any of my communications since January this year. The person in question is according to the will, going to get the whole estate, therefore they would gain an advantage from not warning me.

The rules may have changed, but that's how it was. They just have to make a statement to the court that it was served. I found the whole process a bit nineteenth-century.

[andyA700]

Pro Bono said:

andyA700 said:

I am contesting a will and back in August just two days after the person's death had been registered, I placed a caveat against probate (as advised by my solicitor), which should have stopped probate being granted, so that we can find out exactly what is in the will.
However, I found out yesterday that probate was granted in early September.
My solicitor is on the case, because surely this is illegal?
Any solicitors around to give me their view would be really appreciated.

What strikes me as particularly odd is that she died in August yet probate was granted in September. That's incredibly quick. I deal with many applications for probate, and especially since the pandemic the fastest I can recall recently took about 6 weeks.

I can't imagine how a grant was issued that quickly unless the executor managed to convince the Probate Registry that there was some really serious urgency.

But it is what it is, so I can only surmise that the caveat wasn't actually registered until after the grant was issued, or at least that even if it had been received it hadn't been registered in time to stop the grant.

It doesn't stop you contesting the Will - what you would now be seeking is to revoke the grant.

But on what grounds are you intending to contest it? You'll need very good evidence, as overturning a Will is extremely difficult.

Yes, I thought it was incredibly quick.
I wish to contest it, because I have the medical records of the deceased. The will of the deceased was changed in 2021, at exactly the time when it clearly stated - "Does not have the capacity to consent (Mental capacity act 2005)".

[LimmerickLad]

andyA700 said:

Yes, I thought it was incredibly quick.
I wish to contest it, because I have the medical records of the deceased. The will of the deceased was changed in 2021, at exactly the time when it clearly stated - "Does not have the capacity to consent (Mental capacity act 2005)".

I may have posted elsewhere on here that this is one of the grounds cited in the challenge I was involved with and have no doubt your solicitor will advise you that it is generally accepted that the test of testamentary capacity (making a Will) derives from the judgment of Lord Cockburn CJ in Banks v Goodfellow (1869-70) LR 5 QB 549 and this overides the Mental Capacity Act 2005.

[andyA700]

I managed to contact the probate registry yesterday and despite the long wait and a very confused (incapable) member of staff, who confirmed that I did put a caveat in place and that probate had been granted despite that, then refused to give me any other information why probate had been granted.
I am very suspicious about everything which has happened in this whole, sordid affair.

[LimmerickLad]

WTF??

[andyA700]

LimmerickLad said:

WTF??

My sentiments exactly. At every stage of this affair, I have had information witheld from me, I have been lied to on several occasions and certain people have been breaking the law.

[Caddyshack]

andyA700 said:

LimmerickLad said:

WTF??

My sentiments exactly. At every stage of this affair, I have had information witheld from me, I have been lied to on several occasions and certain people have been breaking the law.

I guess you will need a lawyer who can do something like a civil case?

It is fairly straight forward to contest a Will - which seems to be the issue here?