Altercation and police involvment
Discussion
Hypothetical question,
If in public, a random stranger started a fight with you, and in that fight you ended up knocking him unconscious or putting him on the floor, all in self defence or putting an end to the fight. Would you inform the police that this has taken place, you acted in self defence and this was the outcome to get ahead of the situation if the stranger in question or a member of the public reported it or filmed it and put it on social media etc (i guess people can edit footage to make it biased) or would you just keep quiet and if the police come knocking, tell them your side of the story then?
If in public, a random stranger started a fight with you, and in that fight you ended up knocking him unconscious or putting him on the floor, all in self defence or putting an end to the fight. Would you inform the police that this has taken place, you acted in self defence and this was the outcome to get ahead of the situation if the stranger in question or a member of the public reported it or filmed it and put it on social media etc (i guess people can edit footage to make it biased) or would you just keep quiet and if the police come knocking, tell them your side of the story then?
Keep quiet if I possibly could. Having known someone in a similar situation the police pushed hard for them to take a caution (for getting assaulted) and only their bloody minded refusal and the help a family friend who was a lawyer eventually got it dropped despite the fact it was abundantly clear what had happened. Presumably dishing out a caution was a low cost way of boost the figures for crimes solved without doing any actual policing.
I would report it yes, especially if them starting the fight was physical. ((EDIT - if it was somewhere public and either they or someone else was likely to report it))
A friend very nearly ended up on the raw end of a situation like this. He was leaning against the wall of a bank drinking a coffee whilst his friend queued for a cash point. The person using the ATM accused him of trying to see his pin….. he was miles away.
The person approached and grabbed him. My friend put him on the floor but in doing so spiral fractured his leg.
He left the scene casually leaving behind a witness who falsely reported that he started the fight and had left the scene.
He spent a whole day in a cell whilst CCTV was obtained that proved he did not instigate the fight. Could have been avoided I think if he had self reported it.
A friend very nearly ended up on the raw end of a situation like this. He was leaning against the wall of a bank drinking a coffee whilst his friend queued for a cash point. The person using the ATM accused him of trying to see his pin….. he was miles away.
The person approached and grabbed him. My friend put him on the floor but in doing so spiral fractured his leg.
He left the scene casually leaving behind a witness who falsely reported that he started the fight and had left the scene.
He spent a whole day in a cell whilst CCTV was obtained that proved he did not instigate the fight. Could have been avoided I think if he had self reported it.
Edited by joropug on Thursday 23 November 14:23
Consigliere said:
Hypothetical question,
If in public, a random stranger started a fight with you, and in that fight you ended up knocking him unconscious or putting him on the floor, all in self defence or putting an end to the fight. Would you inform the police that this has taken place, you acted in self defence and this was the outcome to get ahead of the situation if the stranger in question or a member of the public reported it or filmed it and put it on social media etc (i guess people can edit footage to make it biased) or would you just keep quiet and if the police come knocking, tell them your side of the story then?
Have you got a link to the video?If in public, a random stranger started a fight with you, and in that fight you ended up knocking him unconscious or putting him on the floor, all in self defence or putting an end to the fight. Would you inform the police that this has taken place, you acted in self defence and this was the outcome to get ahead of the situation if the stranger in question or a member of the public reported it or filmed it and put it on social media etc (i guess people can edit footage to make it biased) or would you just keep quiet and if the police come knocking, tell them your side of the story then?
I was walking through Penrith town centre a few years ago on a quiet Sunday and this weirdo who looked like a long haired tramp sprung out of a shop doorway, and blocked my path.
He said:- "Hit me, go on hit me"
I brushed him aside and carried on.
Must be something in the Lake district air.....
He said:- "Hit me, go on hit me"
I brushed him aside and carried on.
Must be something in the Lake district air.....
to be honest - you won't get any credits for throwing yourself on the sword.
the police are the ultimate computer says no - the crime is the crime whether you tell them before they find you or not.
There is a chance they won't find you (hypothetically) but if you tell them, you'll get nicked regardless.
the police are the ultimate computer says no - the crime is the crime whether you tell them before they find you or not.
There is a chance they won't find you (hypothetically) but if you tell them, you'll get nicked regardless.
Edited by The Selfish Gene on Thursday 23 November 16:29
I'd keep quiet based on my experience of a similar incident.
Few years ago, I intervened when a gang of teens (18-20 years old) were assaulting a middle aged man, in the middle of a shopping centre. They had him on the floor and were kicking him in the head, which resulted in him receiving life changing injuries, including; deaf in one ear and metal plates in his face. I managed to disrupt the situation by flooring a couple of the teens, causing the others to run away. I should have left at this point!
Police and ambulance crew turn up, I give a brief statement and my details. Couple of weeks later, Police ring and ask me to come to the station to give a statement. Being younger and naive, I turn up and I'm promptly arrested for two counts of assault. They'd arrested the teens, and they had made a counter allegation that I and the middle aged chap had attacked them, and they had defended themselves.
I was in a cell for 8 hours before being interviewed and released on bail.
I was on bail for 3 months and had to attend the station every week, which went down really well with my employer!!
Charges were eventually dropped.
Teens got a suspended sentence.
Few years ago, I intervened when a gang of teens (18-20 years old) were assaulting a middle aged man, in the middle of a shopping centre. They had him on the floor and were kicking him in the head, which resulted in him receiving life changing injuries, including; deaf in one ear and metal plates in his face. I managed to disrupt the situation by flooring a couple of the teens, causing the others to run away. I should have left at this point!
Police and ambulance crew turn up, I give a brief statement and my details. Couple of weeks later, Police ring and ask me to come to the station to give a statement. Being younger and naive, I turn up and I'm promptly arrested for two counts of assault. They'd arrested the teens, and they had made a counter allegation that I and the middle aged chap had attacked them, and they had defended themselves.
I was in a cell for 8 hours before being interviewed and released on bail.
I was on bail for 3 months and had to attend the station every week, which went down really well with my employer!!
Charges were eventually dropped.
Teens got a suspended sentence.
Don't expect logic. There was a case in Glasgow where I saw the CCTV after the court case. Two guys in their 40s were leaving their mother's house and were jumped by a group of 7 or 8 teenagers. As it happened I knew both the guys from years before. Into jogging and keep fit before it was fashionable. Pretty well built. I once had to deal with one of them armed with a baseball bat after a domestic. Luckily it was three of us against one and it was resolved without any injury on either side. The point being that although these guys may have looked like average old guys to these teenagers they weren't. They could handle themselves and were not averse to a bit of violence themselves in the past.
The two guys gave the teenagers a kicking and left. Subsequently there was a complaint against them. Both charged with assault. At trial the CCTV was played they were found not guilty and the Sheriff criticised the PF and the police for even taking it to trial. To me the CCTV looked like obvious self defence. They were initially fairly violent but if you are outnumbered 8 to 2 you need to be.
So being in the right is not always going to stop you enduring a lot of stress for a year or more even if you are eventually cleared. Better to avoid any police involvement if you can.
The two guys gave the teenagers a kicking and left. Subsequently there was a complaint against them. Both charged with assault. At trial the CCTV was played they were found not guilty and the Sheriff criticised the PF and the police for even taking it to trial. To me the CCTV looked like obvious self defence. They were initially fairly violent but if you are outnumbered 8 to 2 you need to be.
So being in the right is not always going to stop you enduring a lot of stress for a year or more even if you are eventually cleared. Better to avoid any police involvement if you can.
Years ago, buddy of my was attacked by two oiks armed with a bottle and I believe baseball bat or similar.
My buddy had a broken foot at the time, was on crutches.
This all happened with a courtyard of a university halls, hence there were loads of witnesses.
Unfortunately for the oiks buddy was the Sensi of the uni karate club …
He disarmed the one with the bat, then used said bat to defend himself from the one with the bottle. Reasonable force only, punched one once and cracked the other round the chops.
Had them screaming for the police apparently … LOL
Police turned up- loved the fact he had turned the tables but still tried to do him for assault - it was dropped in the end.
Fast forward a few years …
Another buddy was walking home, jumped by 4 guys. Unfortunately again for them, he is a reasonably good black belt. He’s also a big lad so they had to be scoring on the lower side of IQ to think picking on him was a good idea.
He left them on the pavement in a pile and walked away - not reported, and nothing more came of it.
Take your pick which is the better option.
My buddy had a broken foot at the time, was on crutches.
This all happened with a courtyard of a university halls, hence there were loads of witnesses.
Unfortunately for the oiks buddy was the Sensi of the uni karate club …
He disarmed the one with the bat, then used said bat to defend himself from the one with the bottle. Reasonable force only, punched one once and cracked the other round the chops.
Had them screaming for the police apparently … LOL
Police turned up- loved the fact he had turned the tables but still tried to do him for assault - it was dropped in the end.
Fast forward a few years …
Another buddy was walking home, jumped by 4 guys. Unfortunately again for them, he is a reasonably good black belt. He’s also a big lad so they had to be scoring on the lower side of IQ to think picking on him was a good idea.
He left them on the pavement in a pile and walked away - not reported, and nothing more came of it.
Take your pick which is the better option.
irc said:
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