Anyone here in the debt collection business?
Discussion
During COVID, we did not press our residential tenants to pay rent. Most still paid, some delayed but paid later, but unfortunately about six decided to abscond once COVID had passed. We know that they received government money to support them. We are down about £30k.
We have pursued two debtors and have secured regular payments from them. The next on the list is being very evasive.
We have a CCJ for £5300 and used a person finding service to find an address during the court process. We now have a court order for him to attend court for questioning about his finances. This has been served at his current trace address, but he has not responded. It has also been messaged to him via Facebook (where he posts all about his party lifestyle). The day after sending it to him, his FB page was taken down, despite being active for the past five years.
We have managed to speak to his mother and we have told her that there is an outstanding court order and that his presence is required at court. She claims he is out of the country (they are Nigerian) but we don't believe her.
There is a debt recovery company helping us, but they are (by their own admission) quite old fashioned and not up to date with social media.
I am quite confident that the subject has seen the court order. However he will attempt to claim that he has not. My question is, then, is there anything further to be done so that we can successfully argue that the defendant has been served? We haven't yet messaged him on X.
Simpo Two said:
There was a very good expert here a wile ago but he's disappeared.
Have you considered High Court? It worked for me
If you can remember his name I will do a trace on him. Have you considered High Court? It worked for me
High court is an option, but I am not sure whether that solves the problem of him being slippery.
I think I am right in saying that, if he doesn't turn up at court having been served, he can be found in contempt of court. With that comes the possibility of a custodial sentence. I THINK the court can issue a warrant for his arrest. I would hope that is the case, given that he is deliberately trying to evade legal process.
High court - I am aware we can transfer the matter. I am not sure it helps with him being slippery.
Louis Balfour said:
If you can remember his name I will do a trace on him.
The company was Gemini. For a few years he was the 'PH debt expert', luckily just when I needed one.Like you I was concerned about throwing good money after bad. I got the CCJ - twice in fact because the defendant, who was far more familiar with courts than me, played the 'I didn't get it' trick and got it set aside. I went back and re-set it. Took four trips to (county) court.
The High Court process was very easy - it's all done remotely for you - and the fee was added to the claim which the debtor was eventually forced to pay.
High Court bailiffs aren't interested in whether or not people turn up at court. They exist to enforce the CCJ, go to the debtors house and basically don't leave until they've got the money, or goods, or a payment plan. The debtor can't simply say 'That's my mother's so you can't take it', they will take it unless he can prove it belongs to his mother.
It's the subject of some most entertaining television as debtors wriggle and whine, lie and shout, but still get nailed.
Simpo Two said:
Louis Balfour said:
If you can remember his name I will do a trace on him.
The company was Gemini. For a few years he was the 'PH debt expert', luckily just when I needed one.Like you I was concerned about throwing good money after bad. I got the CCJ - twice in fact because the defendant, who was far more familiar with courts than me, played the 'I didn't get it' trick and got it set aside. I went back and re-set it. Took four trips to (county) court.
The High Court process was very easy - it's all done remotely for you - and the fee was added to the claim which the debtor was eventually forced to pay.
High Court bailiffs aren't interested in whether or not people turn up at court. They exist to enforce the CCJ, go to the debtors house and basically don't leave until they've got the money, or goods, or a payment plan. The debtor can't simply say 'That's my mother's so you can't take it', they will take it unless he can prove it belongs to his mother.
It's the subject of some most entertaining television as debtors wriggle and whine, lie and shout, but still get nailed.
Louis Balfour said:
All the companies associated with that chap have ceased trading.
If you google High Court Enforcement Agent you will find others. Make a call and see what you think. After the country court scraps I found it almost too easy to believe; just instruct them, send the CCJ and let them get on with it.Zeeky said:
Notice of an oral examination used to have to be served personally. Can't you send a process server to the trace address?
I went there myself because I am local to the defendant.He lives in an apartment building, with a security door at the front. I managed to gain access to that and found his flat, but there was no reply at the door. I will revisit once.
He has seen it by FB. I emailed it to him. I may yet X it to him.
I am aware that personal service is normally required, but I would have thought that a court would allow other means of service, where the subject is being deliberately evasive.
The place he rented from us was also one where he could hide from people.
Sounds like you have a nice portfolio OP,
Generosity and humanity always stabs you in the back when money is concerned, I learnt that with far more than 30k lost.
Landlord zone forums have some good people, well, ones remaining after they changed the forum system, no one liked it and some good very experienced landlords, finance and legal people left.
Generosity and humanity always stabs you in the back when money is concerned, I learnt that with far more than 30k lost.
Landlord zone forums have some good people, well, ones remaining after they changed the forum system, no one liked it and some good very experienced landlords, finance and legal people left.
There wasn’t any reason at all for people not to pay rent during Covid as benefits didn’t stop and the furlough scheme was in place, hence when one of ours started that we told them to pay up as normal.
Anyway, good luck with all the court stuff, as it will probably cost more than what you will ever recover.
Anyway, good luck with all the court stuff, as it will probably cost more than what you will ever recover.
I had issues with an engine builder for a similar sum - as soon as I got the CCJ he asked the Judge to be able to pay some ridiculously low amount a month which was dismissed.
Knowing what the perp was like I went away and got it escalated to H C which was all arranged by DCBL. As soon as they had the order they popped round to see him uninvited and collected the lot in one visit including their not insignificant fee.
C C bailiffs really don't have the necessary powers and can be messed about - DCBL and their ilk don't take no for an answer
The only issue can be the wait for the H C but DCBL lodge wherever they can get fastest service at that time as the order is the order
Knowing what the perp was like I went away and got it escalated to H C which was all arranged by DCBL. As soon as they had the order they popped round to see him uninvited and collected the lot in one visit including their not insignificant fee.
C C bailiffs really don't have the necessary powers and can be messed about - DCBL and their ilk don't take no for an answer
The only issue can be the wait for the H C but DCBL lodge wherever they can get fastest service at that time as the order is the order
Willhire89 said:
I had issues with an engine builder for a similar sum - as soon as I got the CCJ he asked the Judge to be able to pay some ridiculously low amount a month which was dismissed.
Knowing what the perp was like I went away and got it escalated to H C which was all arranged by DCBL. As soon as they had the order they popped round to see him uninvited and collected the lot in one visit including their not insignificant fee.
C C bailiffs really don't have the necessary powers and can be messed about - DCBL and their ilk don't take no for an answer
The only issue can be the wait for the H C but DCBL lodge wherever they can get fastest service at that time as the order is the order
One of the debtors I mention above is paying £50 per month of her own volition. This will be because she knows she can defend that sum if we drag her back to court.Knowing what the perp was like I went away and got it escalated to H C which was all arranged by DCBL. As soon as they had the order they popped round to see him uninvited and collected the lot in one visit including their not insignificant fee.
C C bailiffs really don't have the necessary powers and can be messed about - DCBL and their ilk don't take no for an answer
The only issue can be the wait for the H C but DCBL lodge wherever they can get fastest service at that time as the order is the order
Long story short, she claimed to be unemployed in order to obtain legal aid and the local Law Centre spent a year frustrating our attempts to evict her. When we found out about her employment we threatened her with contempt of court proceedings. She signed a consent order and left, with us around £15k down.
At £50 per month it will take us 25 years to recover the debt. However she is an ambitious individual and I have every intention of staying on her case. One day she will have a better job and assets.
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