Parking fine, ticket not visible...
Discussion
Last month I got a parking fine at Milton Keynes train station car park. The really annoying thing is that I'd bought a ticket, however it's just a slip of paper, not self adhesive, and the thing blew down onto the driver's seat presumably as I was shutting the door on an extremely windy day, and was not seen by the attendant.
The initial fine was £100, with a reduction to £60 for prompt payment.
As soon as I received the letter, I appealed it, and sent the parking company a photo of my ticket (which I'd kept for expenses purposes) and also an excerpt from my bank statement, corroborating the date and time/my name and the payment, so there can be no doubt that I'd bought the ticket and not just "borrowed" one from someone else to try and appeal.
Today they have written to me and basically said tough, as it was not displayed in the windscreen, a fine stands. They have however offered a reduced fine of £20 if paid by 02/01/24. After that it goes back to £100. This to me shows a bit of an admission that perhaps they are on shaky ground, why offer a further reduction?
I can go to the IAS (an independant appeals service) however I will automatically lose the right to the discount.
Do I...
A - Just pay the £20
B - Appeal to the IAS (how likely am I to win if I can prove in black and white I'd paid for the parking service, and the issue is with small paper tickets not being suitable? Not being funny but what am I supposed to do if I turn up in my aeroscreened Caterham?
C - Reach out in a professional manner to the director of the company via LinkedIn (tempted to do that anyway)
Essentially I'd like to quote some "law" to them which hopefully says if I can prove I'd bought a ticket, jog on, and hopefully demonstrate it will cost them to fight my appeal. Are there any experts here on PH?
Thanks in advance
The initial fine was £100, with a reduction to £60 for prompt payment.
As soon as I received the letter, I appealed it, and sent the parking company a photo of my ticket (which I'd kept for expenses purposes) and also an excerpt from my bank statement, corroborating the date and time/my name and the payment, so there can be no doubt that I'd bought the ticket and not just "borrowed" one from someone else to try and appeal.
Today they have written to me and basically said tough, as it was not displayed in the windscreen, a fine stands. They have however offered a reduced fine of £20 if paid by 02/01/24. After that it goes back to £100. This to me shows a bit of an admission that perhaps they are on shaky ground, why offer a further reduction?
I can go to the IAS (an independant appeals service) however I will automatically lose the right to the discount.
Do I...
A - Just pay the £20
B - Appeal to the IAS (how likely am I to win if I can prove in black and white I'd paid for the parking service, and the issue is with small paper tickets not being suitable? Not being funny but what am I supposed to do if I turn up in my aeroscreened Caterham?
C - Reach out in a professional manner to the director of the company via LinkedIn (tempted to do that anyway)
Essentially I'd like to quote some "law" to them which hopefully says if I can prove I'd bought a ticket, jog on, and hopefully demonstrate it will cost them to fight my appeal. Are there any experts here on PH?
Thanks in advance
Edited by Hard-Drive on Tuesday 19th December 16:36
If that happened to me, I'd pay the £20 but perhaps use the expression a lot of comp. payments have in 'not admitting liability' and pursue further for a refund? And carry a cheap roll of Sellotape in the car?
I'm sure there'll be the wide spectrum on here from 'pay £20 and get on with your life' to, fight them every inch of the way, go to court, dominate the stairs etc....
I'm sure there'll be the wide spectrum on here from 'pay £20 and get on with your life' to, fight them every inch of the way, go to court, dominate the stairs etc....
)Presumably the reason for the penalty charge is "failure to display"
In that case they could still ask you to pay a penalty all else being equal.
Usually for a professional PCN dodger like me I would probably find something somewhere and you can do more harm than good trying to appeal something with the wrong strategy.
If it is "failure to display" you may well be best off paying the £20 quid.
In that case they could still ask you to pay a penalty all else being equal.
Usually for a professional PCN dodger like me I would probably find something somewhere and you can do more harm than good trying to appeal something with the wrong strategy.
If it is "failure to display" you may well be best off paying the £20 quid.
Frustrating yes but I'd imagine their Ts&Cs say that if the ticket is not easily and quickly visible then it counts as invalid. It is after all ... Pay and Display.
I assume the reduction is to "cover costs" and as a gesture of goodwill.
I'dreluctantly take the £20 before they come back with the actual terms and you end up paying 5 times that.
I assume the reduction is to "cover costs" and as a gesture of goodwill.
I'd
I should add, assuming it is "failure to display" and assuming as a matter of principle you wish to pursue it then the line of attack is "failure to look". But as you've told them it was on your drivers seat you may not persuade them. Sometimes the best appeal is simply to apologise without being aggressive and to say you're very sorry but the ticket fell onto the drivers seat... and sometimes that'll work as they are humans reading your appeal so if you're not angry about it you can get around them by being nice.
If you're minded to argue over £20 then you'll need to read the terms and conditions, which you ought to have read before parking, to see if the ticket needs to be displayed in the windscreen .
If not and the ticket had landed the correct way up and was clearly visible when looking through the windscreen then,I would argue, it has been displayed.
There's no magic law here. Absent any procedural error, the question is, what did you agree to do with respect to displaying the ticket?
If not and the ticket had landed the correct way up and was clearly visible when looking through the windscreen then,I would argue, it has been displayed.
There's no magic law here. Absent any procedural error, the question is, what did you agree to do with respect to displaying the ticket?
Had similar in a country park i used to go cycling a lot in with family, every week at least once. except in my case, there photo actually showed the ticket, and the date etc, but it was slipped dwon the dash / screen bottom and you could not see the amount paid, although it was a "day ticket" not hours! Thing is the receipt also acted as a money off voucher at a local pub, and we used to have lunch there, and indeed not only did i have the ticket, i had the receipt, and a receipt from the pub showing the discount for the ticket....but of course, parking eye said "nope" and wanted a similar reduced 20 quid.
I paid it and we have never paid for parking there again, instead we park for free a few miles away on the route we used to do, ( was between a lake and a country park, about 15 miles), and now we stop for lunch or coffee elsewhere. It's 6 years ago and we reckon they've lost over a grand parking fees in that time and the pub lost likely about 7 or 8k or revenue from us.
May seem petty, but sometimes it is the only way to reconcile them stiffing you for 20 quid, ie by taking your business elsewhere.
So, if i were you, pay it., then never park there or use the facilities again! Stick it to the man!
I paid it and we have never paid for parking there again, instead we park for free a few miles away on the route we used to do, ( was between a lake and a country park, about 15 miles), and now we stop for lunch or coffee elsewhere. It's 6 years ago and we reckon they've lost over a grand parking fees in that time and the pub lost likely about 7 or 8k or revenue from us.
May seem petty, but sometimes it is the only way to reconcile them stiffing you for 20 quid, ie by taking your business elsewhere.
So, if i were you, pay it., then never park there or use the facilities again! Stick it to the man!
OK thanks. Paid the "fine".
Pretty outrageous to be honest, if they can't supply a better method of me showing I've paid (ANPR, sticky ticket, entering reg number on the ticket machine) they should not be so inflexible when it comes to someone who has paid for their services, and can prove it beyond all doubt, appealing.
I shall rise above it, and their pathetic little business model and customer service ethic. Bring on the Karma.
And Christmas!!! :-)
Pretty outrageous to be honest, if they can't supply a better method of me showing I've paid (ANPR, sticky ticket, entering reg number on the ticket machine) they should not be so inflexible when it comes to someone who has paid for their services, and can prove it beyond all doubt, appealing.
I shall rise above it, and their pathetic little business model and customer service ethic. Bring on the Karma.
And Christmas!!! :-)
Not trying to be an arse, but to be fair, you did not adhere to the terms and conditions. The ticket could have blown upside down.
I was on holiday a few years ago near Tenby, and I noticed a parking attendant had just slapped a ticket on the windscreen of a car and was walking away.
Being curious, I wandered over and saw that the driver had purchased a valid ticket, stuck it on the windscreen firmly, but his windscreen wiper was slightly obscuring the expiry time.
I just lifted his wiper up a fraction, and sure enough you could see it clearly. This is something the warden could have done in two seconds, rather than issue a ticket.
I was on holiday a few years ago near Tenby, and I noticed a parking attendant had just slapped a ticket on the windscreen of a car and was walking away.
Being curious, I wandered over and saw that the driver had purchased a valid ticket, stuck it on the windscreen firmly, but his windscreen wiper was slightly obscuring the expiry time.
I just lifted his wiper up a fraction, and sure enough you could see it clearly. This is something the warden could have done in two seconds, rather than issue a ticket.
Wacky Racer said:
Not trying to be an arse, but to be fair, you did not adhere to the terms and conditions. The ticket could have blown upside down.
I was on holiday a few years ago near Tenby, and I noticed a parking attendant had just slapped a ticket on the windscreen of a car and was walking away.
Being curious, I wandered over and saw that the driver had purchased a valid ticket, stuck it on the windscreen firmly, but his windscreen wiper was slightly obscuring the expiry time.
I just lifted his wiper up a fraction, and sure enough you could see it clearly. This is something the warden could have done in two seconds, rather than issue a ticket.
And the driver could have moved it in two seconds, so there...I was on holiday a few years ago near Tenby, and I noticed a parking attendant had just slapped a ticket on the windscreen of a car and was walking away.
Being curious, I wandered over and saw that the driver had purchased a valid ticket, stuck it on the windscreen firmly, but his windscreen wiper was slightly obscuring the expiry time.
I just lifted his wiper up a fraction, and sure enough you could see it clearly. This is something the warden could have done in two seconds, rather than issue a ticket.
Why dont the tickets have adhesive anymore like a post it, to stick them on the window. Always paranoid now when leaving a ticket just sat on a sloping dash, especially when you’re shutting the door. Apart from pay by phone surely there’s a better solution than a small piece of paper sitting on dashboards.
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