Parking ticket
Discussion
My wife received a parking ticket recently for not paying for a ticket in a car park that uses ANPR to capture vehicles in and out of their carpark.
My wife did in fact pay for the parking, she used her debit card, we have the receipt issued from the parking machine and the pay and display ticket issued on the day.
The fine has arisen because, either my wife, or the machine hasn't recorded our correct registration number, hence receiving the ticket.
My registration number is only five characters long, on the ticket only one character has been recorded, E.g (AB123) would be the reg number but only (A) from the registration number was displayed/shown on the ticket, my wife didn't notice this.
My wife is adamant she keyed in all of our registration number, as she wrote it down on her phone to view when keying the number into the machine.
My wife didn't over stay in the car park either, in fact she left an hour before the expiry on the ticket.
I have already submitted an appeal clearly stating the above, and I included two pictures of the pay and display ticket and the receipt their machine issued, proving we paid.
The parking firm Euro Car Parks, have rejected our claim stating incorrect details input into their machine.
They have however reduced their initial £100 parking fee (if paid within 14 days to £60) to now a £20 administration fee!
Part of me just says sod it, pay the £20 and move on with life, but the other side of me thinks this is robbery regardless of the reduced amount, there was a fault with their machine at the point my wife used it, we have paid the parking fee and the parking fine should be waived, and the matter finished.
Any advice going forward from this point would be greatly received.
Thank you.
My wife did in fact pay for the parking, she used her debit card, we have the receipt issued from the parking machine and the pay and display ticket issued on the day.
The fine has arisen because, either my wife, or the machine hasn't recorded our correct registration number, hence receiving the ticket.
My registration number is only five characters long, on the ticket only one character has been recorded, E.g (AB123) would be the reg number but only (A) from the registration number was displayed/shown on the ticket, my wife didn't notice this.
My wife is adamant she keyed in all of our registration number, as she wrote it down on her phone to view when keying the number into the machine.
My wife didn't over stay in the car park either, in fact she left an hour before the expiry on the ticket.
I have already submitted an appeal clearly stating the above, and I included two pictures of the pay and display ticket and the receipt their machine issued, proving we paid.
The parking firm Euro Car Parks, have rejected our claim stating incorrect details input into their machine.
They have however reduced their initial £100 parking fee (if paid within 14 days to £60) to now a £20 administration fee!
Part of me just says sod it, pay the £20 and move on with life, but the other side of me thinks this is robbery regardless of the reduced amount, there was a fault with their machine at the point my wife used it, we have paid the parking fee and the parking fine should be waived, and the matter finished.
Any advice going forward from this point would be greatly received.
Thank you.
I suspect you are all correct, and I should settle the matter now rather than drag it out, like you say for the price of a few pints!
It's the principle of it that's making my teeth itch, I know they have reduced the amount because they know, should it go the distance they wouldn't win!
But errrr can I be arsed!
It's the principle of it that's making my teeth itch, I know they have reduced the amount because they know, should it go the distance they wouldn't win!
But errrr can I be arsed!
caziques said:
On the other hand, reducing the "fine" to 20 quid demonstrates they don't have a leg to stand on.
Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
I reckon they’ve a watertight case unless it can be proven 100% that the machine in question, or any others available were indeed faulty. Their tested t and c will specifically mention parking without a valid ticket, which, for whatever reason is what happened. Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
Maybe the company are actually being reasonable? (Unlikely I know
)2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
caziques said:
On the other hand, reducing the "fine" to 20 quid demonstrates they don't have a leg to stand on.
Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
I reckon they’ve a watertight case unless it can be proven 100% that the machine in question, or any others available were indeed faulty. Their tested t and c will specifically mention parking without a valid ticket, which, for whatever reason is what happened. Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
Maybe the company are actually being reasonable? (Unlikely I know
)The crux is how many characters of the VRM are missing from the printed ticket. If it's only one letter or digit out of the 5, that is a Minor Error and the PCN should be cancelled.
Failure to do so by a PPC is a clear beach of the CoP. Point this out to ECP in writing asap. If they stlll refuse to reconsider you will let the idependent adjudicator decide.
Note that the time limit for an appeal is 28 days from the date of the PPC's initial rejection letter - https://www.popla.co.uk/faqs#3wANdxZ3K4kxBNAnZPP4d...
Enter all the evidence you have and play your Top Trump: the PPC has failed to abide by its own ATA's CoP.
Assuming the bit in bold above, I certainly wouldn't volunteer to part with £20 of my money. PPCs rely on people not doing sufficient research.
Red Devil said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
caziques said:
On the other hand, reducing the "fine" to 20 quid demonstrates they don't have a leg to stand on.
Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
I reckon they’ve a watertight case unless it can be proven 100% that the machine in question, or any others available were indeed faulty. Their tested t and c will specifically mention parking without a valid ticket, which, for whatever reason is what happened. Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
Maybe the company are actually being reasonable? (Unlikely I know
)The crux is how many characters of the VRM are missing from the printed ticket. If it's only one letter or digit out of the 5, that is a Minor Error and the PCN should be cancelled.
Failure to do so by a PPC is a clear beach of the CoP. Point this out to ECP in writing asap. If they stlll refuse to reconsider you will let the idependent adjudicator decide.
Note that the time limit for an appeal is 28 days from the date of the PPC's initial rejection letter - https://www.popla.co.uk/faqs#3wANdxZ3K4kxBNAnZPP4d...
Enter all the evidence you have and play your Top Trump: the PPC has failed to abide by its own ATA's CoP.
Assuming the bit in bold above, I certainly wouldn't volunteer to part with £20 of my money. PPCs rely on people not doing sufficient research.
Freddie Fitch said:
ConnectionError said:
OP stated that only 1 digit was recorded on the ticket
It's not crystal clear but OP seems to say that the reg is AB123 but the ticket showed only A.So one letter and all three digits were missing!
sherbertdip said:
Freddie Fitch said:
ConnectionError said:
OP stated that only 1 digit was recorded on the ticket
It's not crystal clear but OP seems to say that the reg is AB123 but the ticket showed only A.So one letter and all three digits were missing!
This may or may not be useful information for you, but I have weekly issues with car park ANPR.
My wife's plate is: 12 AB
My plate is A1 ABC
I have another car which is A1O BC (Should be A1 OBC but the O has been moved over)
I changed the characters of the plates for privacy, but you can see the formatting of them.
Many (most) ANPR car park systems fail to recognise these plates, week in, week out. I go to the machine to pay, type in the reg, and it simply says "Registration not recognised". This happens on both the 'pay when you park' and the 'pay when you leave' machines.
Typically, the 'pay as you leave' machines claim they don't recognise the plates, and then ask you to confess as to how long you have been there, and pay. Naturally, I always choose the cheapest length of stay. This has been going on for years.
I am very slowly getting the purchase price of the number plates back.... each parking stay at a time
My wife's plate is: 12 AB
My plate is A1 ABC
I have another car which is A1O BC (Should be A1 OBC but the O has been moved over)
I changed the characters of the plates for privacy, but you can see the formatting of them.
Many (most) ANPR car park systems fail to recognise these plates, week in, week out. I go to the machine to pay, type in the reg, and it simply says "Registration not recognised". This happens on both the 'pay when you park' and the 'pay when you leave' machines.
Typically, the 'pay as you leave' machines claim they don't recognise the plates, and then ask you to confess as to how long you have been there, and pay. Naturally, I always choose the cheapest length of stay. This has been going on for years.
I am very slowly getting the purchase price of the number plates back.... each parking stay at a time
Pica-Pica said:
Shall we all chip in for the £20? Or is everyone’s time still worth discussing this?
Feel free to move on anytime!Regardless of the amount I'm being asked to pay, someone else may be in a similar position facing a much higher fine, and find the information given useful.
Red Devil said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
caziques said:
On the other hand, reducing the "fine" to 20 quid demonstrates they don't have a leg to stand on.
Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
I reckon they’ve a watertight case unless it can be proven 100% that the machine in question, or any others available were indeed faulty. Their tested t and c will specifically mention parking without a valid ticket, which, for whatever reason is what happened. Personally I wouldn't pay it on principal. Send them an invoice for wasting your time.
Maybe the company are actually being reasonable? (Unlikely I know
)The crux is how many characters of the VRM are missing from the printed ticket. If it's only one letter or digit out of the 5, that is a Minor Error and the PCN should be cancelled.
Failure to do so by a PPC is a clear beach of the CoP. Point this out to ECP in writing asap. If they stlll refuse to reconsider you will let the idependent adjudicator decide.
Note that the time limit for an appeal is 28 days from the date of the PPC's initial rejection letter - https://www.popla.co.uk/faqs#3wANdxZ3K4kxBNAnZPP4d...
Enter all the evidence you have and play your Top Trump: the PPC has failed to abide by its own ATA's CoP.
Assuming the bit in bold above, I certainly wouldn't volunteer to part with £20 of my money. PPCs rely on people not doing sufficient research.
Thanks for the comments from all,
I did seek advice from an independent parking appeals governing body, they referred me to section 17 of the BPA code of practice, which states, the following,
Section B in particular!
Keying Errors
17.1 Technology is being used more and more by parking
providers as an aid to car park management. Irrespective
of whether a parking facility is off-street or on-street, the
increased use of technology will often require a motorist
to correctly enter their vehicle registration at a pay and
display machine, parking kiosk or at a validation terminal
inside the location in instances where parking is offered at
a reduced rate or free of charge.
17.2 There is also an increase in the use of mobile phone
apps to pay for parking. Just as in the case of fixed or
stationary parking payment terminals, mobile phone
parking apps also require a motorist to correctly enter
their car registration number.
17.3 No one wants to receive a parking charge for making a
mistake when entering their vehicle registration number
into a Pay and Display machine or parking validation
terminal, when they have paid for the parking event.
Motorists, car park operators, service providers and
equipment manufacturers all have a responsibility in
ensuring that obvious and inadvertent errors do not lead
to unjustified charges.
17.4
The Code recognises that keying errors can be grouped
into 2 main areas;
A) Minor Keying Errors
Examples of a minor keying error could include:
• 0 instead of o.
• I instead of L.
• 1 instead of I
• Up to one letter wrong, removed, or swapped
• Up to one number wrong, removed, or swapped
• Numbers and/or letters in the wrong order (but
where the correct registration is still recognisable)
10
BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION CODE OF PRACTICE
These are minor errors where up to one character has
been entered incorrectly, or where the registration has
been entered in the wrong order. If a typing error such as
this leads to a PCN being issued and the motorist appeals,
the PCN must be cancelled at the first stage of appeal.
B)
Major Keying Errors
Examples of a major keying error could include:
• Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration
• Motorist entered something completely unrelated to
their registration
• Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one
character being entered incorrectly)
• Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM,
for example the first three digits
In these instances we would expect that such errors
are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage,
especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid
for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to
enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park
(eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant).
It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances,
the operator will have incurred charges including but
not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs
therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to
recover some of these costs by making a modest charge
to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day
period from when the keying error was identified before
reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal.
I don't have a leg to stand on if I try to pursue the claim, so I have paid the £20 fee. matter resolved!
Link to the full BPA should anyone else need to reference it,
https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/A...
I did seek advice from an independent parking appeals governing body, they referred me to section 17 of the BPA code of practice, which states, the following,
Section B in particular!
Keying Errors
17.1 Technology is being used more and more by parking
providers as an aid to car park management. Irrespective
of whether a parking facility is off-street or on-street, the
increased use of technology will often require a motorist
to correctly enter their vehicle registration at a pay and
display machine, parking kiosk or at a validation terminal
inside the location in instances where parking is offered at
a reduced rate or free of charge.
17.2 There is also an increase in the use of mobile phone
apps to pay for parking. Just as in the case of fixed or
stationary parking payment terminals, mobile phone
parking apps also require a motorist to correctly enter
their car registration number.
17.3 No one wants to receive a parking charge for making a
mistake when entering their vehicle registration number
into a Pay and Display machine or parking validation
terminal, when they have paid for the parking event.
Motorists, car park operators, service providers and
equipment manufacturers all have a responsibility in
ensuring that obvious and inadvertent errors do not lead
to unjustified charges.
17.4
The Code recognises that keying errors can be grouped
into 2 main areas;
A) Minor Keying Errors
Examples of a minor keying error could include:
• 0 instead of o.
• I instead of L.
• 1 instead of I
• Up to one letter wrong, removed, or swapped
• Up to one number wrong, removed, or swapped
• Numbers and/or letters in the wrong order (but
where the correct registration is still recognisable)
10
BRITISH PARKING ASSOCIATION CODE OF PRACTICE
These are minor errors where up to one character has
been entered incorrectly, or where the registration has
been entered in the wrong order. If a typing error such as
this leads to a PCN being issued and the motorist appeals,
the PCN must be cancelled at the first stage of appeal.
B)
Major Keying Errors
Examples of a major keying error could include:
• Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration
• Motorist entered something completely unrelated to
their registration
• Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one
character being entered incorrectly)
• Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM,
for example the first three digits
In these instances we would expect that such errors
are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage,
especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid
for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to
enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park
(eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant).
It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances,
the operator will have incurred charges including but
not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs
therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to
recover some of these costs by making a modest charge
to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day
period from when the keying error was identified before
reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal.
I don't have a leg to stand on if I try to pursue the claim, so I have paid the £20 fee. matter resolved!
Link to the full BPA should anyone else need to reference it,
https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/A...
Modern day thuggery,
Ask for a full breakdown of the 20 quid, they won't have spent that.
It's a little thing, they could have ran a check for payments made to reg's not appearing on the ANPR list, and spotted the clear small mistake, ask why they didn't, full costs breakdown,
Then/Or write making it clear you want this implemented, and post it so future people can jump onto it and ultimately they could have a case with lots of drivers claiming they have too inadequate a system, or take deliberate advantage..
Ask for a full breakdown of the 20 quid, they won't have spent that.
It's a little thing, they could have ran a check for payments made to reg's not appearing on the ANPR list, and spotted the clear small mistake, ask why they didn't, full costs breakdown,
Then/Or write making it clear you want this implemented, and post it so future people can jump onto it and ultimately they could have a case with lots of drivers claiming they have too inadequate a system, or take deliberate advantage..
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