6 points and more on the way
Discussion
hi , so I have 6 points on my licence ( 30 plus in 30 limit type thing) I was on way to work other morning on Sunday , roads dead straight and no traffic etc and I forgot the speed limits have been changed ( Horsforth roundabout to Rodley roundabout , for those that know Leeds ) they changed all the limits back end of last year but I didn't realise it included that part of the bypass..
Anyway I'm not crying about it, my mistake , point is how do they decide how many points they will give me? if they give me 3 its no issues as such but 6 means a ban , 6 months I believe ?? also could I take a short ban to avoid driving around with 9 points ??? anyone been in similar position..
I could suck up a short ban I guess if |I really had to, although god knows what my insurance would be like next year..
any ideas , and yes I know I'm stupid and I know its my fault etc etc
Anyway I'm not crying about it, my mistake , point is how do they decide how many points they will give me? if they give me 3 its no issues as such but 6 means a ban , 6 months I believe ?? also could I take a short ban to avoid driving around with 9 points ??? anyone been in similar position..
I could suck up a short ban I guess if |I really had to, although god knows what my insurance would be like next year..
any ideas , and yes I know I'm stupid and I know its my fault etc etc
Depends if you were going fast enough for a summons... https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...
From my experience, they tend to aim for points rather than a ban as they feel you are more likely to drive carefully knowing the next one will be a ban.. That's the theory anyway.
From my experience, they tend to aim for points rather than a ban as they feel you are more likely to drive carefully knowing the next one will be a ban.. That's the theory anyway.
Chris340gti said:
hi , so I have 6 points on my licence ( 30 plus in 30 limit type thing) I was on way to work other morning on Sunday , roads dead straight and no traffic etc and I forgot the speed limits have been changed ( Horsforth roundabout to Rodley roundabout , for those that know Leeds ) they changed all the limits back end of last year but I didn't realise it included that part of the bypass..
Anyway I'm not crying about it, my mistake , point is how do they decide how many points they will give me? if they give me 3 its no issues as such but 6 means a ban , 6 months I believe ?? also could I take a short ban to avoid driving around with 9 points ??? anyone been in similar position..
I could suck up a short ban I guess if |I really had to, although god knows what my insurance would be like next year..
any ideas , and yes I know I'm stupid and I know its my fault etc etc
Not enough info, what was the speed and limit? One thing to think about is Magistrates are given guidelines one of which is not to give short bans when it would impact on the possibility of a totting ban kicking in, might not be what you want to hear, sorryAnyway I'm not crying about it, my mistake , point is how do they decide how many points they will give me? if they give me 3 its no issues as such but 6 means a ban , 6 months I believe ?? also could I take a short ban to avoid driving around with 9 points ??? anyone been in similar position..
I could suck up a short ban I guess if |I really had to, although god knows what my insurance would be like next year..
any ideas , and yes I know I'm stupid and I know its my fault etc etc
Chris340gti said:
well its a new 50 limit , I did 76 sadly. I wouldn't mind but i don't generally put my foot down but it was Sunday morning , downhill, wide main road , no junctions, no cars , no people... anyway. Its a funny road, single road going down and 2 going the other way..
Unfortunately that is 6 point territory with no leeway. If your licence is important to you long term it may be worth some representation to try and convince a bench why you should receive a short ban. AGTLaw of this parish maybe good place to startChris340gti said:
well its a new 50 limit , I did 76 sadly. I wouldn't mind but i don't generally put my foot down but it was Sunday morning , downhill, wide main road , no junctions, no cars , no people... anyway. Its a funny road, single road going down and 2 going the other way..
It is because of people like you that the speed limit was reduced to 50 !In my experience (a while ago now) 6 points could get you a short ban instead of the points, but you don't get to choose. Also, if you already have 6 points then they won't go for the short ban in lieu of points, and instead will tot it up to 12.
I had a siimilar situation some years ago, and was worried enough about a longer ban that I got a barrister to represent me, along with a letter from work saying I'd be fired if I got a ban. End resullt was that I got the 6 points, which totalled to 12, but the ban was waived.
Having gone through a period in my younger days of being somewhat neglectful of speed limits, I tended to find that treatment in magistrates court were a mixture of their attitude/mood at the time, as well as how you presented yourself.
Not sure what it's like these days, as I've long since learned that it's far less stressful to stick to the limits and avoid any such hassle. Good luck.
I had a siimilar situation some years ago, and was worried enough about a longer ban that I got a barrister to represent me, along with a letter from work saying I'd be fired if I got a ban. End resullt was that I got the 6 points, which totalled to 12, but the ban was waived.
Having gone through a period in my younger days of being somewhat neglectful of speed limits, I tended to find that treatment in magistrates court were a mixture of their attitude/mood at the time, as well as how you presented yourself.
Not sure what it's like these days, as I've long since learned that it's far less stressful to stick to the limits and avoid any such hassle. Good luck.
Phil. said:
Onelastattempt said:
It is because of people like you that the speed limit was reduced to 50 !
Woke woke woke, climate change, safety partnership, stop oil, net zero, and repeat 
heads like the OP .The only answer national and local government have lately to road safety is to reduce speed limits when it is re-education that is needed more.
I use the Pudsey bypass down to the Rodley roundabout and up to the Horsforth roundabout three times a week, by car or motorcycle, and I am still surprised by the number of people who still think the new speed limits don't apply to them. I thought it was just the usual suspects who turn off for Bradford , seems I was wrong.
I was on 3 points and then caught at 104 on a mortorway - straight to court (in Scotland)
After giving an oscar winning performance in suggesting why they shouldnt ban me, even for a month, the sheriff said "Now we have heard your hardship plea, can we hear your exceptional hardship plea" - er, sorry love, my ar$e is falling out the floor, that was my exceptional hardship plea!!!
They went into everything, why I cant use public transport, can someone else drive me, can my wife get a better job while im banned, can she get overtime, can i get a better job that didnt mean driving (was contracting on £230 a day back then - 2013 ish). Anyway, I had a realistic and honest answer for everything they threw at me.
They did say i would be close to ban but ended up with 6 points & £400 fine - so was driving around on 9 points for around 2 years - and most of my work was in in London and Manchester at the time, both known even then for a lot of enforcement cameras.
Some takeaways (other than dont speed, or not too excessively) if you go to court,
Be honest - they will ask / expect you to continue with hardship in your day to day life, even if that means others driving for you (employing a driver etc)
Be polite and contrite - they would have seen that I was cr4pping myself - so the severity of the situation was clearly obvious to me.
Be prepared - I got a lift to court from a friend (I made a point of mentioning this, so was aware a ban was possible) and I when asked "can somone drive you around for work" I pointed to my lift and basically said "My friend here (who was a female friend of my wife and I) has offered to drive me around for work, even if that meant been away from home for the week but it woulndt be financially viable as it would mean a 2nd hotel room and food etc for her" - I think that it had showed that I had taken the threat of a ban very seriously.
After giving an oscar winning performance in suggesting why they shouldnt ban me, even for a month, the sheriff said "Now we have heard your hardship plea, can we hear your exceptional hardship plea" - er, sorry love, my ar$e is falling out the floor, that was my exceptional hardship plea!!!
They went into everything, why I cant use public transport, can someone else drive me, can my wife get a better job while im banned, can she get overtime, can i get a better job that didnt mean driving (was contracting on £230 a day back then - 2013 ish). Anyway, I had a realistic and honest answer for everything they threw at me.
They did say i would be close to ban but ended up with 6 points & £400 fine - so was driving around on 9 points for around 2 years - and most of my work was in in London and Manchester at the time, both known even then for a lot of enforcement cameras.
Some takeaways (other than dont speed, or not too excessively) if you go to court,
Be honest - they will ask / expect you to continue with hardship in your day to day life, even if that means others driving for you (employing a driver etc)
Be polite and contrite - they would have seen that I was cr4pping myself - so the severity of the situation was clearly obvious to me.
Be prepared - I got a lift to court from a friend (I made a point of mentioning this, so was aware a ban was possible) and I when asked "can somone drive you around for work" I pointed to my lift and basically said "My friend here (who was a female friend of my wife and I) has offered to drive me around for work, even if that meant been away from home for the week but it woulndt be financially viable as it would mean a 2nd hotel room and food etc for her" - I think that it had showed that I had taken the threat of a ban very seriously.
Was on the Motorway yesterday. 3 wide lanes perfect conditions. Empty road ahead & behind. Could not help but wonder why its still 70mph when modern cars could safely do 100 plus they really need to look at some sections of road increase the limits which were designed 60 years ago for primitive compared to modern cars braking & safety systems! Probably have fewer fatal accidents if drivers are allowed to stretch theirs cars performance on certain parts of modern motorways...
6 easy points for those who wanted to risk more than 70 if caught. Me I learned the hard way stick to the NSL limits no 2 weeks anxiety waiting for the post to arrive with a NIP.
6 easy points for those who wanted to risk more than 70 if caught. Me I learned the hard way stick to the NSL limits no 2 weeks anxiety waiting for the post to arrive with a NIP.
Onelastattempt said:
Phil. said:
Onelastattempt said:
It is because of people like you that the speed limit was reduced to 50 !
Woke woke woke, climate change, safety partnership, stop oil, net zero, and repeat heads like the OP .The only answer national and local government have lately to road safety is to reduce speed limits when it is re-education that is needed more.
I use the Pudsey bypass down to the Rodley roundabout and up to the Horsforth roundabout three times a week, by car or motorcycle, and I am still surprised by the number of people who still think the new speed limits don't apply to them. I thought it was just the usual suspects who turn off for Bradford , seems I was wrong.
RS_MAN_CHILD said:
Was on the Motorway yesterday. 3 wide lanes perfect conditions. Empty road ahead & behind. Could not help but wonder why its still 70mph when modern cars could safely do 100 plus they really need to look at some sections of road increase the limits which were designed 60 years ago for primitive compared to modern cars braking & safety systems! Probably have fewer fatal accidents if drivers are allowed to stretch theirs cars performance on certain parts of modern motorways...
6 easy points for those who wanted to risk more than 70 if caught. Me I learned the hard way stick to the NSL limits no 2 weeks anxiety waiting for the post to arrive with a NIP.
Whilst I agree I can see the counter argument as someone on the motorway daily pretty much some drivers are awful and borderline dangerous in the way they use motorways, lane discipline is horrendous with people not keeping to the left and tootling down lane 2 at 55 when the limit is 70 and lane 1 is completely clear. 6 easy points for those who wanted to risk more than 70 if caught. Me I learned the hard way stick to the NSL limits no 2 weeks anxiety waiting for the post to arrive with a NIP.
To the OP I know the stretch of road well, I live fairly local but I go out of my way to avoid it now as I do Horsforth as a whole because it’s constantly jammed up with traffic.
I’m convinced they have put those reduced limits in because ultimately the whole road will see housing development at the side making it even worse.
I wish you good luck but I suspect this will end up in a court hearing
Edited by Jamescrs on Monday 15th January 07:00
Onelastattempt said:
Phil. said:
Onelastattempt said:
It is because of people like you that the speed limit was reduced to 50 !
Woke woke woke, climate change, safety partnership, stop oil, net zero, and repeat heads like the OP .RS_MAN_CHILD said:
Was on the Motorway yesterday. 3 wide lanes perfect conditions. Empty road ahead & behind. Could not help but wonder why its still 70mph when modern cars could safely do 100 plus they really need to look at some sections of road increase the limits which were designed 60 years ago for primitive compared to modern cars braking & safety systems! Probably have fewer fatal accidents if drivers are allowed to stretch theirs cars performance on certain parts of modern motorways...
Roads are also vastly busier than when they were built, and I don’t think there’s much chance of “people will die less if we get a chance to really go for it” succeeding. Plus, the increased energy cost of higher speed limits means it’s not happening.
All that needs saying about the OP's post has been said, so I won't rehash it.
This caught my eye though
If after: the speed partnership already does training. Those courses are widely derided on PH, so I am surprised anyone is advocating them. Testimony on here seems to suggest a chat with a magistrate gives a sufficient dose of "education".
Plus, using a training only penalty system breaks the cause /effect link in our justice system of some sort of consequence for not following laws, as even at £100 it's quite soft for 25mph+ over.
If before: I can't imagine anyone getting their licence and not being clear about how to recognise speed limits. (Though if someone is missing speed limits signs, what else are they missing?)
Would this training be random? Like jury service? Or a rolling training provided for every motorist every few years perhaps?
Council tax would have to go up by way more than 5% to deliver it, or speeding fines by a steep margin if the local safety partnership were to provide it from their funds.
Perhaps a theory test could be introduced, or the hazard awareness part. Bear in mind anyone over 50 probably didn't do one, and a percentage would find them hard to do at home online.
Speed awareness courses probably work currently because attendees know they have used their chance, and the next ticket will involve more cost and hassle at insurance time. Would they work if people could just keep racking them up endlessly? I'm not sure they would.
I am certainly no saint when it comes to speed on dual and m way roads, but I have always contended: if I get caught I will not be blaming anything else but me, like lack of signs, lack of training.
Local authorities turn to speed reduction to improve the safety of their residents because they can see the consequences of unsafe driving.
True, in London it was in part dressed as pollution based, but safety was the main driver. Average speed setups (which are expensive) are only used where there's tangible evidence of higher accidents (afaik)
Personally, I think improving safety needs more enforcement of existing limits in high risk locations, not sparodic enforcement of a lower limits at "fish in barrel" locations.
But again, any speed camera are widely derided on here as "scameras", or cash machines etc, so it does seem like a chunk of members just want to drive how they want with no consequence.
This caught my eye though
Onelastattempt said:
The only answer national and local government have lately to road safety is to reduce speed limits when it is re-education that is needed more.
I am curious: do you feel this education is needed for motorists after they've not followed (some fairly clear) rules, or before?If after: the speed partnership already does training. Those courses are widely derided on PH, so I am surprised anyone is advocating them. Testimony on here seems to suggest a chat with a magistrate gives a sufficient dose of "education".
Plus, using a training only penalty system breaks the cause /effect link in our justice system of some sort of consequence for not following laws, as even at £100 it's quite soft for 25mph+ over.
If before: I can't imagine anyone getting their licence and not being clear about how to recognise speed limits. (Though if someone is missing speed limits signs, what else are they missing?)
Would this training be random? Like jury service? Or a rolling training provided for every motorist every few years perhaps?
Council tax would have to go up by way more than 5% to deliver it, or speeding fines by a steep margin if the local safety partnership were to provide it from their funds.
Perhaps a theory test could be introduced, or the hazard awareness part. Bear in mind anyone over 50 probably didn't do one, and a percentage would find them hard to do at home online.
Speed awareness courses probably work currently because attendees know they have used their chance, and the next ticket will involve more cost and hassle at insurance time. Would they work if people could just keep racking them up endlessly? I'm not sure they would.
I am certainly no saint when it comes to speed on dual and m way roads, but I have always contended: if I get caught I will not be blaming anything else but me, like lack of signs, lack of training.
Local authorities turn to speed reduction to improve the safety of their residents because they can see the consequences of unsafe driving.
True, in London it was in part dressed as pollution based, but safety was the main driver. Average speed setups (which are expensive) are only used where there's tangible evidence of higher accidents (afaik)
Personally, I think improving safety needs more enforcement of existing limits in high risk locations, not sparodic enforcement of a lower limits at "fish in barrel" locations.
But again, any speed camera are widely derided on here as "scameras", or cash machines etc, so it does seem like a chunk of members just want to drive how they want with no consequence.
Phil. said:
Onelastattempt said:
It is because of people like you that the speed limit was reduced to 50 !
Woke woke woke, climate change, safety partnership, stop oil, net zero, and repeat A road near me was 70 for decades. Some people thought that meant 90 and drove accordingly. So they reduced it to 50 and the same people thought that meant 70 and drove accordingly. So they put average speed cameras up. Another one near me is a similar story. Was 70 for ever and is now 40 with average speed cameras, again because a minority thought they could drive as fast as they wanted. Another stretch near me was 70, is now 60 and is about to go from 60 to 40 with average speed cameras because some people still didn't get the hint. Upside down cars in hedges due to the speed being higher than the driver's talent (and the limit) were a regular feature of all of them. Still is for the stretch about to be reduced to 40 which is why it is to be reduced. Many of those wouldn't have happened if those concerned had adhered to the limit. So instead of the rest of us being able to do 70 safely, we're all forced to do 40/50.
As with most things in life it's always a minority who think they can do what they like that spoil it for everybody else. This is no different and anyone who thinks otherwise is just in denial. The more people defy the rules, the harsher those rules and the penalties for breaking them will become. We reap what you sow.
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