Will my insurance be void?
Discussion
Hiya!
So, please no judgment, it is what it is and I’ll have to deal with the consequences if the answer is yes 😭
My mum & I share a car, the insurance policy is in her name and when asked if she’s the registered keeper we just ticked yes not really thinking much of it. Fast forward only 3 months and the car was stolen. (Recovered ourselves). It’s gone to insurance to assess the damage and they’ve asked for the V5 obviously, to which I’ve realised the registered keeper discrepancy will indeed matter? We’ve done a change of owner and the new V5 has been issued (though not received yet) so will obviously be sending that one to the insurance company. Can they find out that this wasn’t the case when the policy was actually taken out?
ALSO, I changed the plates to my private ones and forgot to update the insurance company, so everything they’re doing is based off the original plates but of course the new V5 says the new reg. I did try to update this online but as there’s an active claim it wouldn’t let me. Will this go against me?
Lastly, we moved house on the 16th, car was stolen on the 4th. New V5 obviously had to be sent to our new address or we wouldn’t have received it. Will this be an issue that where the policy is held and the address on the v5 don’t match? Again, tried to update but it won’t let me. Nothing I could do about this except not move house?
Any advice welcome!
Thank you in advance.
So, please no judgment, it is what it is and I’ll have to deal with the consequences if the answer is yes 😭
My mum & I share a car, the insurance policy is in her name and when asked if she’s the registered keeper we just ticked yes not really thinking much of it. Fast forward only 3 months and the car was stolen. (Recovered ourselves). It’s gone to insurance to assess the damage and they’ve asked for the V5 obviously, to which I’ve realised the registered keeper discrepancy will indeed matter? We’ve done a change of owner and the new V5 has been issued (though not received yet) so will obviously be sending that one to the insurance company. Can they find out that this wasn’t the case when the policy was actually taken out?
ALSO, I changed the plates to my private ones and forgot to update the insurance company, so everything they’re doing is based off the original plates but of course the new V5 says the new reg. I did try to update this online but as there’s an active claim it wouldn’t let me. Will this go against me?
Lastly, we moved house on the 16th, car was stolen on the 4th. New V5 obviously had to be sent to our new address or we wouldn’t have received it. Will this be an issue that where the policy is held and the address on the v5 don’t match? Again, tried to update but it won’t let me. Nothing I could do about this except not move house?
Any advice welcome!
Thank you in advance.
I’m trying to be as helpful and objective as possible… but this is a fair old mess!
If your insurer want to get out of a claim they certainly have grounds to do so.
You are required to act in ‘good faith’ and must disclose material information that would affect the risk or likelihood of an insurer accepting the risk. Objectively they could say you failed at both these aspects.
I don’t know your age but it is quite common for ‘new driver with high premium’ to buy a car, insure it in mums name to lower premium and have themselves as a named driver.
Technically your mum has no insurable interest in your car if you are the registered keeper. Policy holder must always be the owner.
The fact you have tried to change this after logging a claim is a red flag and, yes, they would be able to tell you’ve done this.
Also having a different registration to the policy is a fairly big flag in the eyes of an insurer.
Whether they pay out or not is ultimately anyone’s guess at this stage. The fact they asked for the log book means they are doing their due diligence.
I would say your best bet from now on is be extremely friendly and polite in all dealings and be completely 100% honest. If they feel they are being lied to or you are not telling the truth - they will almost certainly find a way to get out of it based on the above.
A lot of people view the big bad insurance company as the enemy but ultimately you are on the same side (until they feel you are lying to them to extract money).
Good luck!
If your insurer want to get out of a claim they certainly have grounds to do so.
You are required to act in ‘good faith’ and must disclose material information that would affect the risk or likelihood of an insurer accepting the risk. Objectively they could say you failed at both these aspects.
I don’t know your age but it is quite common for ‘new driver with high premium’ to buy a car, insure it in mums name to lower premium and have themselves as a named driver.
Technically your mum has no insurable interest in your car if you are the registered keeper. Policy holder must always be the owner.
The fact you have tried to change this after logging a claim is a red flag and, yes, they would be able to tell you’ve done this.
Also having a different registration to the policy is a fairly big flag in the eyes of an insurer.
Whether they pay out or not is ultimately anyone’s guess at this stage. The fact they asked for the log book means they are doing their due diligence.
I would say your best bet from now on is be extremely friendly and polite in all dealings and be completely 100% honest. If they feel they are being lied to or you are not telling the truth - they will almost certainly find a way to get out of it based on the above.
A lot of people view the big bad insurance company as the enemy but ultimately you are on the same side (until they feel you are lying to them to extract money).
Good luck!
I’m 30 years old and have been driving for 12 years, my premiums are pretty low anyway so I don’t really have a need to front. Mum and I are joint tenants and occupy together hence sharing a vehicle. We paid 50/50 hence (naively, I admit) me not thinking it would be an issue. But of course it is. Duh.
I’m in agreement it definitely does sound “not right”, hence I’m here!
Address there’s no option but to move house so not sure what I could really do about that? Couldn’t tell the court bailiffs that we’ve gotta stay in case insurance think we’re dodgy lol. We have proof in the way of tenancy agreement starting AFTER the car was stolen plus end of tenancy things and court papers etc from the property on the policy.
I’ve accepted the worst case scenario that I’ll probably be paying the price for this mistake but thought it was worth checking with those more knowledgeable than myself.
In that case does anyone know what I’m looking at in terms of cost for a steering wheel that’s been angle grinded in half and a boot that won’t close on a Range Rover evoque hahaha
I’m in agreement it definitely does sound “not right”, hence I’m here!
Address there’s no option but to move house so not sure what I could really do about that? Couldn’t tell the court bailiffs that we’ve gotta stay in case insurance think we’re dodgy lol. We have proof in the way of tenancy agreement starting AFTER the car was stolen plus end of tenancy things and court papers etc from the property on the policy.
I’ve accepted the worst case scenario that I’ll probably be paying the price for this mistake but thought it was worth checking with those more knowledgeable than myself.
In that case does anyone know what I’m looking at in terms of cost for a steering wheel that’s been angle grinded in half and a boot that won’t close on a Range Rover evoque hahaha
Edited by LaceAri on Friday 19th January 21:16
Contrary to what people on PH think, insurers cannot just walk away from a claim. They need to follow the terms of the 2015 Insurance Act and can only walk away if the act allows it under the circumstances.
If i understand correctly, you have three issues. The ownership, the incorrect reg no and the address.
You can forget the incorrect reg no. It won't matter. Unless the personalised reg was your initials or name. Then, if you claim the car was your mum's and she's the main driver, but you are the owner and you have a personalised reg no, it could be evidence of fronting. That'll depend on your respective ages. If she's 50 and you're 19, it's an issue. If she's 91 and you're 60, less so.
The insurance act re declining claims is quite a read but a very rough summary.
First thing they need to decide is if there's enough evidence to suggest this was a deliberate attempt to mislead them to get a lower premium or advantageous terms . If the answer to that is yes, they then have to ask themselves if it did indeed get you a lower premium or better terms. If it didn't, they have to deal with the claim. If it did, they can refuse.
If the answer to the initial question in no, they aren't convinced it was deliberate, they then have to ask themselves had they known the truth, would they have given you cover, maybe at a higher price. If so, they have to deal with the claim, but they can reduce the payout if they choose to by the same percentage that you underpaid the premium. So if the correct premium wass £500 and you only paid £250 because you inadvertently gave the wrong info, then if the claim is for £10K, they only have to pay you £5K.
Now if, had they known the truth, they would not have covered you at all, then they can decline the claim, even though the wrong info was given in error.
Edit: Just picked up that you're 30. Guess mum is mid 50s. That can still be viewed as fronting, as her premium will be lower than yours. But not as bad as her being 50 and you being 19.
If i understand correctly, you have three issues. The ownership, the incorrect reg no and the address.
You can forget the incorrect reg no. It won't matter. Unless the personalised reg was your initials or name. Then, if you claim the car was your mum's and she's the main driver, but you are the owner and you have a personalised reg no, it could be evidence of fronting. That'll depend on your respective ages. If she's 50 and you're 19, it's an issue. If she's 91 and you're 60, less so.
The insurance act re declining claims is quite a read but a very rough summary.
First thing they need to decide is if there's enough evidence to suggest this was a deliberate attempt to mislead them to get a lower premium or advantageous terms . If the answer to that is yes, they then have to ask themselves if it did indeed get you a lower premium or better terms. If it didn't, they have to deal with the claim. If it did, they can refuse.
If the answer to the initial question in no, they aren't convinced it was deliberate, they then have to ask themselves had they known the truth, would they have given you cover, maybe at a higher price. If so, they have to deal with the claim, but they can reduce the payout if they choose to by the same percentage that you underpaid the premium. So if the correct premium wass £500 and you only paid £250 because you inadvertently gave the wrong info, then if the claim is for £10K, they only have to pay you £5K.
Now if, had they known the truth, they would not have covered you at all, then they can decline the claim, even though the wrong info was given in error.
Edit: Just picked up that you're 30. Guess mum is mid 50s. That can still be viewed as fronting, as her premium will be lower than yours. But not as bad as her being 50 and you being 19.
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Friday 19th January 21:42
LaceAri said:
Hiya!
We’ve done a change of owner and the new V5 has been issued (though not received yet) so will obviously be sending that one to the insurance company. Can they find out that this wasn’t the case when the policy was actually taken out?
You haven't done a change of owner, just a change of keeper.We’ve done a change of owner and the new V5 has been issued (though not received yet) so will obviously be sending that one to the insurance company. Can they find out that this wasn’t the case when the policy was actually taken out?
The original car registration number is always allocated to that car, the VIN doesn't change - so I don't believe it is an issue.
LaceAri said:
I’m 30 years old and have been driving for 12 years, my premiums are pretty low anyway so I don’t really have a need to front. Mum and I are joint tenants and occupy together hence sharing a vehicle. We paid 50/50 hence (naively, I admit) me not thinking it would be an issue. But of course it is. Duh.
I’m in agreement it definitely does sound “not right”, hence I’m here!
Address there’s no option but to move house so not sure what I could really do about that? Couldn’t tell the court bailiffs that we’ve gotta stay in case insurance think we’re dodgy lol. We have proof in the way of tenancy agreement starting AFTER the car was stolen plus end of tenancy things and court papers etc from the property on the policy.
I’ve accepted the worst case scenario that I’ll probably be paying the price for this mistake but thought it was worth checking with those more knowledgeable than myself.
In that case does anyone know what I’m looking at in terms of cost for a steering wheel that’s been angle grinded in half and a boot that won’t close on a Range Rover evoque hahaha
I had a Corsa that I didn't want anymore (no guesses as to why...its a Corsa!). It was on finance still and I was living at home. My mum wanted a new car and liked mine so I gave it to her and paid less rent. Paying the finance still. I’m in agreement it definitely does sound “not right”, hence I’m here!
Address there’s no option but to move house so not sure what I could really do about that? Couldn’t tell the court bailiffs that we’ve gotta stay in case insurance think we’re dodgy lol. We have proof in the way of tenancy agreement starting AFTER the car was stolen plus end of tenancy things and court papers etc from the property on the policy.
I’ve accepted the worst case scenario that I’ll probably be paying the price for this mistake but thought it was worth checking with those more knowledgeable than myself.
In that case does anyone know what I’m looking at in terms of cost for a steering wheel that’s been angle grinded in half and a boot that won’t close on a Range Rover evoque hahaha
Edited by LaceAri on Friday 19th January 21:16
It was her car, she drove it the most but I used it when she wasn't using it for work etc (I had a bike).
I crashed and it was written off. Admiral had no issues with it. The car was still in my name. She had ticked that she was the RK as we forgot to change the V5 over. They paid the remaining finance and gave the rest to my mum.
I wouldn't worry about it.
Its not fronting by any means.
Does it not say is, or will be? They can get lost in post if you post them to dvla that take a little time sometimes, sometimes you have to apply for it if it's lost etc... when you did online, did you put the correct date for having the car, or date you changed it?
And If Its only been 3 months, it could have been posted and forgotten about, you still expected it to be done, and answered honestly when asked.
And If Its only been 3 months, it could have been posted and forgotten about, you still expected it to be done, and answered honestly when asked.
LosingGrip said:
I wouldn't worry about it.
Its not fronting by any means.
If you have an insurance claim, and you haven't given the insurance company the correct information, you should always worry about it. Its not fronting by any means.
There are plenty of people insuring their cars in their mum's name to get a lower premium. That's fronting. A 30 year old insuring the car in the name of a 55 y/o is fronting if done to falsely obtain a lower premium. You cannot give the OP an assurance that he has nothing to worry about based on what happened to you. His insurer might well have an issue with it. But they may not.
OP, Twigs comment are as usual pretty spot on and in particular his summary paragraphs of what the Insurer will now be doing as part of their claim due diligence process.
His last paragraph before the edit would be the really alarming one as far as you are concerned but it’s too late to change anything now anyway.
Of the 3 errors per se they won’t grade each error necessarily but hopefully just look at the situation as a whole.
How long you have been Insured with them may count for you / work against you.
I think you should be concerned ( it’s not a slam dunk either way ) but equally you could have a reasonable defence for them.
You certainly shouldn’t cancel the claim or indeed the policy as this could have far longer time consequences.
Basically I think you will need to see what their response really is before deciding on what if anything you should then do.
Even if they do what Twigs last paragraph says and say they are cancelling the policy abinitio ( as though it never existed ) you could still appeal to them , their complaints dept and ultimately the Insurance ombudsman BUT hopefully this won’t be the case.
His last paragraph before the edit would be the really alarming one as far as you are concerned but it’s too late to change anything now anyway.
Of the 3 errors per se they won’t grade each error necessarily but hopefully just look at the situation as a whole.
How long you have been Insured with them may count for you / work against you.
I think you should be concerned ( it’s not a slam dunk either way ) but equally you could have a reasonable defence for them.
You certainly shouldn’t cancel the claim or indeed the policy as this could have far longer time consequences.
Basically I think you will need to see what their response really is before deciding on what if anything you should then do.
Even if they do what Twigs last paragraph says and say they are cancelling the policy abinitio ( as though it never existed ) you could still appeal to them , their complaints dept and ultimately the Insurance ombudsman BUT hopefully this won’t be the case.
Nick_13 said:
Technically your mum has no insurable interest in your car if you are the registered keeper. Policy holder must always be the owner.
Not true. Registered keeper may not be the the owner (even though in most cases they are the same person). The V5 makes that clear.
The policy holder doesn't need to be the owner. My partner has been the policy holder on a car I owned and am the keeper of. The insurance company(direct line) simply noted she was neither the owner or RK on the certificate.
My son has also taken out learners insurance on my car.
Edited by 98elise on Saturday 20th January 17:07
LaceAri said:
Hiya!
So, please no judgment, it is what it is and I’ll have to deal with the consequences if the answer is yes ??
My mum & I share a car, the insurance policy is in her name and when asked if she’s the registered keeper we just ticked yes not really thinking much of it. Fast forward only 3 months and the car was stolen. (Recovered ourselves). It’s gone to insurance to assess the damage and they’ve asked for the V5 obviously, to which I’ve realised the registered keeper discrepancy will indeed matter? We’ve done a change of owner and the new V5 has been issued (though not received yet) so will obviously be sending that one to the insurance company. Can they find out that this wasn’t the case when the policy was actually taken out?
ALSO, I changed the plates to my private ones and forgot to update the insurance company, so everything they’re doing is based off the original plates but of course the new V5 says the new reg. I did try to update this online but as there’s an active claim it wouldn’t let me. Will this go against me?
Lastly, we moved house on the 16th, car was stolen on the 4th. New V5 obviously had to be sent to our new address or we wouldn’t have received it. Will this be an issue that where the policy is held and the address on the v5 don’t match? Again, tried to update but it won’t let me. Nothing I could do about this except not move house?
Any advice welcome!
Thank you in advance.
As you recovered the car, is the claim big?So, please no judgment, it is what it is and I’ll have to deal with the consequences if the answer is yes ??
My mum & I share a car, the insurance policy is in her name and when asked if she’s the registered keeper we just ticked yes not really thinking much of it. Fast forward only 3 months and the car was stolen. (Recovered ourselves). It’s gone to insurance to assess the damage and they’ve asked for the V5 obviously, to which I’ve realised the registered keeper discrepancy will indeed matter? We’ve done a change of owner and the new V5 has been issued (though not received yet) so will obviously be sending that one to the insurance company. Can they find out that this wasn’t the case when the policy was actually taken out?
ALSO, I changed the plates to my private ones and forgot to update the insurance company, so everything they’re doing is based off the original plates but of course the new V5 says the new reg. I did try to update this online but as there’s an active claim it wouldn’t let me. Will this go against me?
Lastly, we moved house on the 16th, car was stolen on the 4th. New V5 obviously had to be sent to our new address or we wouldn’t have received it. Will this be an issue that where the policy is held and the address on the v5 don’t match? Again, tried to update but it won’t let me. Nothing I could do about this except not move house?
Any advice welcome!
Thank you in advance.
98elise said:
Nick_13 said:
Technically your mum has no insurable interest in your car if you are the registered keeper. Policy holder must always be the owner.
Not true. Registered keeper may not be the the owner (even though in most cases they are the same person). The V5 makes that clear.
The policy holder doesn't need to be the owner. My partner has been the policy holder on a car I owned and am the keeper of. The insurance company(direct line) simply noted she was neither the owner or RK on the certificate.
My son has also taken out learners insurance on my car.
Edited by 98elise on Saturday 20th January 17:07
People, even people working in insurance, completely misunderstand what insurable interest means. I cannot take out insurance on my neighbours car, because he's just bought a Range Rover and I know they get stolen a lot, in the hope that it gets stolen so I get £100K. Because I have no loss, so no insurance interest. But if he is going away for a year and agrees to lend it to me, and we agree that I will be responsible for it, then I do have an insurable interest. I'm the one who is going to be out of pocket if it gets stolen, as I have a verbal contract that makes it my responsibility to compensate him.
Now many insurers would not cover me, which is up to them. But it's not because I don't have an insurable interest as I do. But they will often give that as the reason because they don't want to say that their stats show that people using cars they don't own take less care of them.
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