Gym contract unfair? Thoughts?
Discussion
Appreciate peoples thoughts on this one
Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their popular spin classes.
If a member cancels a class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their popular spin classes.
If a member cancels a class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
Edited by Canon_Fodder on Monday 18th March 11:57
Canon_Fodder said:
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
I feel that in this situation the £3 charge is more of a deterrent than anything else. If it's a popular class then it's just to avoid disappointment of people who can't get a space only to turn up to the gym and see several empty bikes. For the PT who does the class, it doesn't affect them in any way as they still run classes and there's no skin off their nose if all bikes are full or not. They still do what they do.For the other way round, where do you propose the money should / will come from? The PT is already likely not going to be paid for the missed session. It's not really the Gym's fault that the PT has had an emergency and are unable to make it.
In general, I'd be more interested to where the £3 charge goes to. If it's just put into their profits, staff slush fund, or others. A local gym had some similar set up and it turned out the non turn up fines were just going to the owner. There was a bit of a big deal made of this by their patrons. They ended up reallocating the fines to a charity committee who either organise events to raise more money with the funds gathered or donate the funds directly.
dave123456 said:
Try and think about what each party loses out on.
Yes indeed - it was this point she was thinking about:Consumer cancels at short notice - they lose out on £3
Business cancels at short notice - they lose out on £nothing.
Having a rummage in the CMA paperwork they have this as general guidance about unfair contract terms:
The fairness test – section 62
2.10 A term is unfair ‘if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer’.
2.12 Significant imbalance is concerned with the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract. The requirement is met if a term is so weighted in favour of a business that it tilts the rights and obligations under the contract significantly in its favour
said:
Consumer cancels at short notice - they lose out on £3
Business cancels at short notice - they lose out on £nothing.
Would the business actually save money by not having to pay a trainer? In other words, if you're a trainer due to give a class, for which you presumably get paid, do they not pay you if you can't make it?Business cancels at short notice - they lose out on £nothing.
Canon_Fodder said:
Appreciate peoples thoughts on this one
Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their spin popular classes.
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
Hang on - so if they cancel a class with minutes notice, Mrs Fodder still has to pay for the class?Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their spin popular classes.
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
simon_harris said:
works the same with my PT and masseuse - if I cancel a session with less than 24 hours notice it cost me the full price of the session - if they cancel at any time (despite pre-paid sessions) the session just gets moved.
winds me up no end.
Well it just has to work this way. Late cancelations are a huge problem and if you don't get on top of them can cost you a fortune. winds me up no end.
I'm a Strength and Conditioning Coach (fancy PT) and I have the same rule, but will only implement on repeat offenders. But I will have on average 2 a week cancelling last minute and thats knowing they'll get charged. It was much worse when I didn't with regularly 5 or 6 - which could easily be £10k a year pre tax income gone.
And likewise If I need to cancel a day or two because I'm sick (which tbh is very very very rare when you're self employed), you're not going to compensate two full days of sessions, just like you wouldn't pay your salary back to your employer if you had time off sick, or on holiday. And it's not quite the same as the OP because you haven't paid for the service that's been cancelled, you still have that session in the bank.
Muzzer79 said:
Canon_Fodder said:
Appreciate peoples thoughts on this one
Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their spin popular classes.
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
Hang on - so if they cancel a class with minutes notice, Mrs Fodder still has to pay for the class?Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their spin popular classes.
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
Muzzer79 said:
Hang on - so if they cancel a class with minutes notice, Mrs Fodder still has to pay for the class?
Mrs Fodder pays a monthly fee which gives her access to book classes - so it's a nuanced 'yes'. In theory - according to their T&Cs - they could cancel each and every class she books and she would get no refund on her monthly membership fee. More goodies from the CMA:
[i}2(c) Limitations of liability[/i]
5.6.1 If a contract is to be fully and equally binding on both trader and consumer, each party should be entitled to full compensation where the other fails to honour its obligations. Clauses which limit the trader’s liability are open to the same objections as those which exclude it altogether. See paragraphs 5.2.1 to 5.2.10 regarding disclaimers generally.
TheBALDpuma said:
Muzzer79 said:
Canon_Fodder said:
Appreciate peoples thoughts on this one
Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their spin popular classes.
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
Hang on - so if they cancel a class with minutes notice, Mrs Fodder still has to pay for the class?Mrs Fodder is a member of large gym chain and goes to their spin popular classes.
If a member cancels class booking giving than 4 hours notice, they charge you £3. (a good idea which prevents no-shows and thus empty bikes).
But when they cancel a class, sometimes with minutes notice, no refund / compo is paid.
It's obviously not a huge sum, but Mrs Fodder insists on not being taken advantage of.
I don't have the exact wording of the contract, but on the above info does that sound like a fundamentally unfair contract?
The £3 charge by the gym isn't to cover costs, it's a penalty to ensure that the facilities are used to their maximum, rather than people booking classes that they don't attend and blocking attendance for others.
dundarach said:
It doesn't matter whether it's unfair or not does it?
I was hoping for the views of m'learned friends of PH Chambers (qualified or otherwise) on the legal point in question.Mrs Fodder is - I can assure you - certainly not the type to 'suck things up' and being from the fair city of Liverpool, is more likely to go down there and let their tyres down - but as I say, it's the legality of the position that I'm interested in please
Edited by Canon_Fodder on Monday 18th March 11:55
Ezra said:
- so what, s
t happens....not everything can run like clockwork.
Indeed not - but the point I'm getting at is that when it's the gym's pooh that happens - it's 'so what't happens....not everything can run like clockwork. But when it's the members pooh that happens they get penalised financially.
I'd like to understand if that's fair under the legislation.
Canon_Fodder said:
Ezra said:
- so what, st happens....not everything can run like clockwork.
Indeed not - but the point I'm getting at is that when it's the gym's pooh that happens - it's 'so what't happens....not everything can run like clockwork. But when it's the members pooh that happens they get penalised financially.
I'd like to understand if that's fair under the legislation.
She's being penalised for the benefit of other members - it's a penalty charge to encourage people to attend classes they've booked to ensure everyone gets a fair go at attending them.
What refund would you want for the gym's cancellation of a class? An equal £3 to what they charge your wife?
On the basis of what? It hasn't cost your wife £3 not to attend and the gym aren't cancelling the class for reasons other than force majeure, rather than they just couldn't be arsed that day.
Suck it up, pay the £3. Or change gym.
It's the contrast between these two clauses (Trader can cancel a class at any time and for any reason and will not refund)
3.6 We may sometimes need to postpone, alter, cancel or introduce new activities temporarily or permanently at any time for any reason,... We will, where reasonably possible, display notices in the facility or contact you by email as far in advance as possible to advise you of such a change.
3.7 We will not reduce or refund any Fees because of or in response to such unavailability of facilities
and these two: (Consumer has unequal (worse) class cancellation rights and has to pay a penalty)
DEFINITIONS AND INTERPRETATION
Late Cancellation Charge
A charge made for cancellation made less than 4 hours before the Activity Booking start time.
4.13 There may be occasions where you are legitimately not able to provide more than 4 hours’ notice to cancel Your Activity Booking - these instances might include a sudden emergency, pregnancy related illness or incident, those who live with hidden disabilities or health conditions and members with a registered disability. Should this be the case, members can contact us in centre, or via our Customer Service Team, to request to have the late cancellation charge waived and removed from your account
4.14 The Late Cancellation Charge and the No Show Charge are chargeable where the cancellation conditions set out in these Terms are not met. Each of these charges is currently £3.00, but is subject to review from time to time.
3.6 We may sometimes need to postpone, alter, cancel or introduce new activities temporarily or permanently at any time for any reason,... We will, where reasonably possible, display notices in the facility or contact you by email as far in advance as possible to advise you of such a change.
3.7 We will not reduce or refund any Fees because of or in response to such unavailability of facilities
and these two: (Consumer has unequal (worse) class cancellation rights and has to pay a penalty)
DEFINITIONS AND INTERPRETATION
Late Cancellation Charge
A charge made for cancellation made less than 4 hours before the Activity Booking start time.
4.13 There may be occasions where you are legitimately not able to provide more than 4 hours’ notice to cancel Your Activity Booking - these instances might include a sudden emergency, pregnancy related illness or incident, those who live with hidden disabilities or health conditions and members with a registered disability. Should this be the case, members can contact us in centre, or via our Customer Service Team, to request to have the late cancellation charge waived and removed from your account
4.14 The Late Cancellation Charge and the No Show Charge are chargeable where the cancellation conditions set out in these Terms are not met. Each of these charges is currently £3.00, but is subject to review from time to time.
Be fair, they are counting on wife and all others to turn up and spin the bike generators to keep the electric bill down. More resistance its set at, more watts per spin. Only Joking... 
Someone more knowledgeable in the area than me could correct me, until then; As they say, the Contract is the law, read it carefully before you agree
Someone more knowledgeable in the area than me could correct me, until then; As they say, the Contract is the law, read it carefully before you agree
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