Must there be a degree of negligence?
Discussion
Recently the rental flat immediately above my rental flat, had an issue with their washing machine, resulting in water pouring into my flat, and causing to my flat £930.00 worth of damage.
The other landlord refuses to financially compensate me for the damage, stating that he had not been negligent.
Does there have to be negligence, for the other landlord to be both morally and legally responsible to compensate me for the damage.
I am considering making a claim online before the small claims court.
The other landlord refuses to financially compensate me for the damage, stating that he had not been negligent.
Does there have to be negligence, for the other landlord to be both morally and legally responsible to compensate me for the damage.
I am considering making a claim online before the small claims court.
Yes, legally there needs to be negligence. If the flat owner above you did nothing wrong, they aren't responsible for your damage.
Morally doesn't matter. Everyone's morals are different, but the law applies to all. Hence we use the law to decide.
Morally doesn't matter. Everyone's morals are different, but the law applies to all. Hence we use the law to decide.
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Sunday 18th August 20:07
If you had advised the owner of the flat above there was a leak and they did nothing and then damage occurred in your flat you could claim as they were negligent in not doing anything.
If the washing machine has just sprung a leak without warning they are not negligent so you can't claim from them.
If the washing machine has just sprung a leak without warning they are not negligent so you can't claim from them.
Simpo Two said:
It's an interesting point though. If someone causes £930-worth of damage to your property, why should you claim and lose NCB etc when you could just ask them to pay up, and if not, sue them? Would a judge just tell you to bugger off and claim on your insurance?
OP would need to show they were negligent. Simpo Two said:
It's an interesting point though. If someone causes £930-worth of damage to your property, why should you claim and lose NCB etc when you could just ask them to pay up, and if not, sue them? Would a judge just tell you to bugger off and claim on your insurance?
What did the landlord do to cause the damage to OPs flat ?Simpo Two said:
If someone causes £930-worth of damage to your property,
Nobody caused £930 worth of damage to his flat. That's the point. £930 worth of damaged was incurred, but no one caused it to happen. Sometimes people suffer losses where no one else it to blame. That's why we insure our own stuff.
Forester1965 said:
Take legal advice. Housing is a distinct area of law. It needs someone who knows it specifically to give a qualified opinion.
Negligence and liability is also a distinct area of law. But it's covered on Page 1 of UK Law For Dummies. Donohue v Stephenson, carbolic smoke balls, snails in ginger beer etc. No negligence, no liability. You don't need to pay Rumpole of the Bailey to tell you that. Wings said:
Recently the rental flat immediately above my rental flat, had an issue with their washing machine, resulting in water pouring into my flat, and causing to my flat £930.00 worth of damage.
The other landlord refuses to financially compensate me for the damage, stating that he had not been negligent.
Does there have to be negligence, for the other landlord to be both morally and legally responsible to compensate me for the damage.
I am considering making a claim online before the small claims court.
This has all the ingredients to fuel an argument in a pub for a few hours. The other landlord refuses to financially compensate me for the damage, stating that he had not been negligent.
Does there have to be negligence, for the other landlord to be both morally and legally responsible to compensate me for the damage.
I am considering making a claim online before the small claims court.
First: what was damaged? Your possessions are yours to insure against loss or damage. The fabric of your flat though (walls, plasterboard, tiles, flooring etc) is generally the landlord’s to maintain and repair, and so the landlord’s to insure. Quite what’s within the landlord’s wheelhouse is determined by the express and possibly implied terms of your lease. So that is the starting point: what has been damaged and who does it belong to?
The second question is whether the person who has suffered the loss/damage can lay off that cost into someone else. If a washing machine above you sprung a leak, then who did the washing machine belong to, and were they careless? If it’s a furnished flat, the machine may belong to the landlord. If not, then the tenant. Or did the landlord’s pipework leak? Or was it the connection between the machine and the feed/drain pipes (tricky!).
Either way, the owner of the thing that leaked will only be liable for damage caused by the leak if they were careless: sudden unexpected leaks don’t signify negligence.
Simpo Two said:
the tenant, if they caused it.
Yes, but nobody ever "causes" these things, they just happen. Unless it's deliberate (which you'd never prove) or negligent (which you'd never prove) there isn't a leg to stand on.Typically the "block" insurance bought by the management company for the benefit of all tenants/owners may cover this sort of stuff. Otherwise it's a matter for your own insurance, just like if there's a leak from the water tank in your own attic.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Negligence and liability is also a distinct area of law. But it's covered on Page 1 of UK Law For Dummies. Donohue v Stephenson, carbolic smoke balls, snails in ginger beer etc. No negligence, no liability. You don't need to pay Rumpole of the Bailey to tell you that.
You don't need to pay Rumpole of the Bailey if;A) You're not trying to engage Rumpooenof the Bailey; or
B) You're having a free initial consultation
There might be something in it, there might not. A definitive answer from some anonymous folk on the internet is about as much use as you-know-whats on a fishy of course.
Forester1965 said:
You don't need to pay Rumpole of the Bailey if;
A) You're not trying to engage Rumpooenof the Bailey; or
B) You're having a free initial consultation
There might be something in it, there might not. A definitive answer from some anonymous folk on the internet is about as much use as you-know-whats on a fishy of course.
This is year one law stuff. He’d be wasting his time, although given it’s Wings he may well do that.A) You're not trying to engage Rumpooenof the Bailey; or
B) You're having a free initial consultation
There might be something in it, there might not. A definitive answer from some anonymous folk on the internet is about as much use as you-know-whats on a fishy of course.
Negligence has to be proved, however there may be some. Washing machines rarely spring leaks. What happens more is someone DIY installs one to save £50 and doesn't do the connections up quite right, causing a leak later on. If this may be the case here, it only costs a negligible amount of money to issue a money claim online claim against the landlord and their tenants, at which point the question of negligence (or otherwise) would be decided by an impartial party
We used to live in an upstairs flat which had been maintained buy the previous owner (badly)
We ended up water damaging the flat below 4 times, none of them directly our fault.
The big one that got the insurance involved was when the bath drain burst. It turned out the previous owner had fitted a new bath and joined the plastic pipe to the original lead pipe with mastic. It also had negligible fall so it eventually silted up and the joint gave way. Our insurance paid for his damage on that occasion. I don’t know if we were just lucky and had a friendly claims handler.
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