Wrongly issued fines for airport drop-offs
Discussion
Getting a little hacked off with a certain parking firm and their incompetence.
Out of 20 visits to a particular airport since August of last year, I have been sent a PCN for not paying the drop charge 7 times. I have never neglected to pay these charges in full and on time as I pay them there and then before driving away.
My response to the first one was to provide them the proof they asked for that I had paid. Then the second. Third and fourth had me pointing out that clearly there is a problem with their IT system and someone needs to sort it out. I've had enough now.
I've had to go through POPLA for one charge because they didn't take my advice of checking their own damn account for a payment in my name instead of making ME do all the running around and wasting my time in order to provide them with proof and it now looks like that's what I'll have to do for this latest one. The only small satisfaction from this is that it costs them money but I shouldn't have to be faffing about with it.
The contract for their bulls
t extortion charge states I need to make a payment of £x before midnight of the following day IIRC. Which I do every single time. There's nothing there about having to waste my time and effort providing them with proof after the fact, especially when all they have to do is check their account to find a payment in my name. If I can log onto my banking app and see the payment is pending literally seconds after I've done it, and it then goes through without a hitch at my end, the problem is clearly theirs but they can't be bothered to sort it out.
My question is, what can I do to put a stop to this?
Out of 20 visits to a particular airport since August of last year, I have been sent a PCN for not paying the drop charge 7 times. I have never neglected to pay these charges in full and on time as I pay them there and then before driving away.
My response to the first one was to provide them the proof they asked for that I had paid. Then the second. Third and fourth had me pointing out that clearly there is a problem with their IT system and someone needs to sort it out. I've had enough now.
I've had to go through POPLA for one charge because they didn't take my advice of checking their own damn account for a payment in my name instead of making ME do all the running around and wasting my time in order to provide them with proof and it now looks like that's what I'll have to do for this latest one. The only small satisfaction from this is that it costs them money but I shouldn't have to be faffing about with it.
The contract for their bulls
t extortion charge states I need to make a payment of £x before midnight of the following day IIRC. Which I do every single time. There's nothing there about having to waste my time and effort providing them with proof after the fact, especially when all they have to do is check their account to find a payment in my name. If I can log onto my banking app and see the payment is pending literally seconds after I've done it, and it then goes through without a hitch at my end, the problem is clearly theirs but they can't be bothered to sort it out.My question is, what can I do to put a stop to this?
Nope, perfectly normal plates and they're obviously being recognised as they manage to get my info from the DVLA every time.
It is literally a payment issue with their IT system and a disconnect between one part receiving my payment and it not telling the other part to not send out a PCN. Then when I tell them to check their account for a payment in my name, which I can see has been made, they just say I have to provide proof.
Nowhere does their contract state that the onus is on me to do that. I've fulfilled my part by making the payment for the correct amount and within the allotted timeframe.
It is literally a payment issue with their IT system and a disconnect between one part receiving my payment and it not telling the other part to not send out a PCN. Then when I tell them to check their account for a payment in my name, which I can see has been made, they just say I have to provide proof.
Nowhere does their contract state that the onus is on me to do that. I've fulfilled my part by making the payment for the correct amount and within the allotted timeframe.
Decky_Q said:
If you're sure your plate is not messing with the anpr due to anything you have done, I'd be inclined to let this run to court, only replying to them that you owe them nothing. They'll remember you after half a dozen expensive days of wasting their time.
This is what I'd love to do but that's a rather dangerous game to be playing if the outcome isn't guaranteed.Are you aware of others getting these penalties- maybe go to the local press?
Was annoyed on daughter’s behalf when she got one from the Runcorn Bridge. It was obvious from the photo they sent that they’d misread the plate. The annoying thing was their letter agreeing to waive the charge on this occasion as if they were doing her a favour. They should have paid her the same amount as the penalty.
Was annoyed on daughter’s behalf when she got one from the Runcorn Bridge. It was obvious from the photo they sent that they’d misread the plate. The annoying thing was their letter agreeing to waive the charge on this occasion as if they were doing her a favour. They should have paid her the same amount as the penalty.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Saturday 21st September 10:24
Why should the onus be on you to prove you’ve paid? Surely it should be the other way round and they should have to prove you haven’t. Anyways, I’d probably speak to them once, record the conversation then sit back and wait for the fines etc to mount up. When a court summons is issued turn up with all your evidence of proof of payment and proof you’ve contacted them and wait for a not guilty verdict. While you’re there make a complaint about harassment too. Most of the above though is bravado by me, I’m sure none of us would go through all that, so sorry I can’t help OP, but as I’ve said above surely my first two sentences are correct at least?
Antony Moxey said:
Why should the onus be on you to prove you’ve paid? Surely it should be the other way round and they should have to prove you haven’t. Anyways, I’d probably speak to them once, record the conversation then sit back and wait for the fines etc to mount up. When a court summons is issued turn up with all your evidence of proof of payment and proof you’ve contacted them and wait for a not guilty verdict. While you’re there make a complaint about harassment too. Most of the above though is bravado by me, I’m sure none of us would go through all that, so sorry I can’t help OP, but as I’ve said above surely my first two sentences are correct at least?
I'm 100% in agreement but as I said above, it's a dangerous game to play when the outcome isn't guaranteed.Antony Moxey said:
Why should the onus be on you to prove you’ve paid? Surely it should be the other way round and they should have to prove you haven’t. Anyways, I’d probably speak to them once, record the conversation then sit back and wait for the fines etc to mount up. When a court summons is issued turn up with all your evidence of proof of payment and proof you’ve contacted them and wait for a not guilty verdict. While you’re there make a complaint about harassment too. Most of the above though is bravado by me, I’m sure none of us would go through all that, so sorry I can’t help OP, but as I’ve said above surely my first two sentences are correct at least?
The absence of a record of payment held by the parking company is prima facie evidence of non payment. If contested, the parking co would be well advised to supplement that with evidence of the integrity of their payment recording systems (which, here, might not be easy). But the prima facie evidence is enough to shift the evidential burden to the driver, to produce evidence of payment.
If the driver has proof of payment it would always be more prudent to produce that early on rather than wait until the matter gets to court. Documentary evidence that is produced for the very first time in court tends to provoke claims that it has been fabricated.
And there would not be a “not guilty” verdict. This is not a criminal matter.
Centurion07 said:
Antony Moxey said:
Why should the onus be on you to prove you’ve paid? Surely it should be the other way round and they should have to prove you haven’t. Anyways, I’d probably speak to them once, record the conversation then sit back and wait for the fines etc to mount up. When a court summons is issued turn up with all your evidence of proof of payment and proof you’ve contacted them and wait for a not guilty verdict. While you’re there make a complaint about harassment too. Most of the above though is bravado by me, I’m sure none of us would go through all that, so sorry I can’t help OP, but as I’ve said above surely my first two sentences are correct at least?
I'm 100% in agreement but as I said above, it's a dangerous game to play when the outcome isn't guaranteed.You've paid - you've got proof you've paid........
Play them at their own game - I'd be writing them a polite letter, listing out the number of times this has happened and saying that each time you've provided the relevant proof
However as it take time (when you could be working) you are going to either
A. send them a bill for each time to cover your costs
or
B. Leave it to them to take action in court where you will provide the proof and claim for costs at that point.
BlackTails said:
The absence of a record of payment held by the parking company is prima facie evidence of non payment.
And herein lies the problem. There is clearly a problem with their system if this has happened 7 out of 20 times. I have a record of payment, it is going through without a hitch at my end. That is THEIR problem but they're making it MY problem when it's not MY problem. I've complied with all the terms and conditions of the contract they're relying on.B'stard Child said:
Why isn't the outcome guaranteed?
.
Because if I let it go to court I don't see anyone being too impressed that although technically I'm in the right, I had the proof all along and could've just provided it right at the start and need not have wasted anyone's time. Pretty sure courts don't appreciate that kind of thing. So although I might get let off the original fine, I may end up paying court costs..
Centurion07 said:
B'stard Child said:
Why isn't the outcome guaranteed?
.
Because if I let it go to court I don't see anyone being too impressed that although technically I'm in the right, I had the proof all along and could've just provided it right at the start and need not have wasted anyone's time. Pretty sure courts don't appreciate that kind of thing. So although I might get let off the original fine, I may end up paying court costs..
Antony Moxey said:
I guess you could simply contact them with proof of payment and keep a record of that proof whether it be a screenshot, email or recorded conversation? I’d imagine you shouldn’t need to do anything beyond ‘yes I’ve paid, here’s the proof, see you in court’?
Which is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. I want them to fix their damn system so it works properly and I DON'T have to keep providing proof.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff