Do road speed consultations count for anything?
Discussion
Round my way I’ve become aware of some proposed speed changes to some local roads. All down (duh), NSL down to 30/40, 40 to 20 and so on. One that would affect a route I commonly take is plainly ridiculous.
I’ve looked at the documents and the reasons stated seem pretty thin; on one the “parish council” has proposed the change and on another “a councillor” has suggested it. I have my own views on parish councils, and how local this councillor may live to the road he is so keen on dropping from a 40 to a 20…
The documents give the impression that these reductions are a done deal, but they state that “by Law” they are required to run a public consultation. I’ve managed to find the relevant web page (not particularly well signposted) and registered my objection.
My question (yes there is one!) is: do these consultations count for anything? What if all respondees object, will it still go ahead regardless? What thresholds exist for these consultations to actually change what seems a predetermined outcome?
I’ve looked at the documents and the reasons stated seem pretty thin; on one the “parish council” has proposed the change and on another “a councillor” has suggested it. I have my own views on parish councils, and how local this councillor may live to the road he is so keen on dropping from a 40 to a 20…
The documents give the impression that these reductions are a done deal, but they state that “by Law” they are required to run a public consultation. I’ve managed to find the relevant web page (not particularly well signposted) and registered my objection.
My question (yes there is one!) is: do these consultations count for anything? What if all respondees object, will it still go ahead regardless? What thresholds exist for these consultations to actually change what seems a predetermined outcome?
If the consultation results agree with the council then they will use it to reinforce their decision.
If the consultation result does not agree with the council then they will simply state those who took part are too stupid to understand the question and therefore the result will be disregarded.
If the consultation result does not agree with the council then they will simply state those who took part are too stupid to understand the question and therefore the result will be disregarded.
We have a parish councillor who promotes lower speed limits to get votes. He will say things like 'Six people have complained that cars go too fast...' and other half-baked gibberish. So I wrote a letter to the County Council pointing out the flaws in his half-baked gibberish - that was over a year ago and so far the limits haven't been changed.
Freedom for Tooting!
Freedom for Tooting!
PhilboSE said:
Round my way I’ve become aware of some proposed speed changes to some local roads. All down (duh), NSL down to 30/40, 40 to 20 and so on. One that would affect a route I commonly take is plainly ridiculous.
I am not defending the decision & have no insight into your particular area of discussion, but some have just changed near me that may be similar.They look ridiculous when you see them, but they have been done because of house building work that means that a longer stretch of 30 has been added to cover it's completion.
All I am saying is that some make more sense when you look at "the other side" of the argument.
Where I live we had something similar with local government cash available to support the lowering of sped limits I.e paying for signs and road markings.
I was able to successfully significantly reduce the impact of how many and how much of the roads were reduced in speed.
I went to my local county council and request the data from an ATC (automatic traffic counter) and ended up with a huge spreadsheet of all speeds all vehicles using the road in question from 2004 until present.
From this I could do some analysis and found that 94% of driver drove with 10% of the speed limit.
Essentiall you need to go and get the data, interpret it and then appear at a parish council meeting to present your findings.
It’ll also help if you have read the previous minutes of these meetings.
If you do the above you will have a chance but you’ve got to be motivated.
It might also help to canvas opinion from residents, especially after you have done the analysis.
However if you sit on your arse you will lose.
I was able to successfully significantly reduce the impact of how many and how much of the roads were reduced in speed.
I went to my local county council and request the data from an ATC (automatic traffic counter) and ended up with a huge spreadsheet of all speeds all vehicles using the road in question from 2004 until present.
From this I could do some analysis and found that 94% of driver drove with 10% of the speed limit.
Essentiall you need to go and get the data, interpret it and then appear at a parish council meeting to present your findings.
It’ll also help if you have read the previous minutes of these meetings.
If you do the above you will have a chance but you’ve got to be motivated.
It might also help to canvas opinion from residents, especially after you have done the analysis.
However if you sit on your arse you will lose.
The legislation simply says that the council (the highway authority) must consider any objections received.
How that consideration is undertaken isn’t defined. Some councils have committees of Councillors who review objections. Others delegate to an officer or officers.
The national speed limit guidance (“Setting local speed limits”) is actually pretty sensible, but it’s routinely ignored because everyone thinks that slower is safer. Quoting the guidance, and questioning the inevitable deviation from it, is probably the most effective way to object.
How that consideration is undertaken isn’t defined. Some councils have committees of Councillors who review objections. Others delegate to an officer or officers.
The national speed limit guidance (“Setting local speed limits”) is actually pretty sensible, but it’s routinely ignored because everyone thinks that slower is safer. Quoting the guidance, and questioning the inevitable deviation from it, is probably the most effective way to object.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Where I live we had something similar with local government cash available to support the lowering of sped limits I.e paying for signs and road markings.
I was able to successfully significantly reduce the impact of how many and how much of the roads were reduced in speed.
I went to my local county council and request the data from an ATC (automatic traffic counter) and ended up with a huge spreadsheet of all speeds all vehicles using the road in question from 2004 until present.
From this I could do some analysis and found that 94% of driver drove with 10% of the speed limit.
Essentiall you need to go and get the data, interpret it and then appear at a parish council meeting to present your findings.
It’ll also help if you have read the previous minutes of these meetings.
If you do the above you will have a chance but you’ve got to be motivated.
It might also help to canvas opinion from residents, especially after you have done the analysis.
However if you sit on your arse you will lose.
Parish councils have no real power in these consultations - far more effective to speak at a county council meeting as they're the ones responsible.I was able to successfully significantly reduce the impact of how many and how much of the roads were reduced in speed.
I went to my local county council and request the data from an ATC (automatic traffic counter) and ended up with a huge spreadsheet of all speeds all vehicles using the road in question from 2004 until present.
From this I could do some analysis and found that 94% of driver drove with 10% of the speed limit.
Essentiall you need to go and get the data, interpret it and then appear at a parish council meeting to present your findings.
It’ll also help if you have read the previous minutes of these meetings.
If you do the above you will have a chance but you’ve got to be motivated.
It might also help to canvas opinion from residents, especially after you have done the analysis.
However if you sit on your arse you will lose.
And this is why there's no point replying to consultations:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce31xwq2ev9o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce31xwq2ev9o
BBC article said:
Around 84% of people who responded to a consultation on the plan opposed it
and the council is going to do in anyway.I was watching the 1800 news last night and saw the blurb Scotland is reducing NSL/60mph to 50mph on almost all A, B and other roads. It struck me as odd given friends north of the border have seen nothing in the media, no notices of consultation, etc...!
Perhaps the blurb was a boll lox feeler leak to see how much it'd kick off if they get away with doing so?
Perhaps the blurb was a boll lox feeler leak to see how much it'd kick off if they get away with doing so?
Steve-B said:
I was watching the 1800 news last night and saw the blurb Scotland is reducing NSL/60mph to 50mph on almost all A, B and other roads. It struck me as odd given friends north of the border have seen nothing in the media, no notices of consultation, etc...!
Perhaps the blurb was a boll lox feeler leak to see how much it'd kick off if they get away with doing so?
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/national-speed-management-review/Perhaps the blurb was a boll lox feeler leak to see how much it'd kick off if they get away with doing so?
there we go
Lowering speed limits is trendy amongst politicos (bit like Net Zero, and its linked!), and it wins votes. It's happening. We don't live in a real democracy. Have not for quite some time, and it's only going one way.
Councils have been steamrolling public opinion for so long now its sadly the norm. Most decisions seem to be made by a small handfull of senior citizens and a sprinkling of lefties.
Councils have been steamrolling public opinion for so long now its sadly the norm. Most decisions seem to be made by a small handfull of senior citizens and a sprinkling of lefties.
Griffith4ever said:
Lowering speed limits is trendy amongst politicos (bit like Net Zero, and its linked!), and it wins votes. It's happening. We don't live in a real democracy. Have not for quite some time, and it's only going one way.
Councils have been steamrolling public opinion for so long now its sadly the norm. Most decisions seem to be made by a small handfull of senior citizens and a sprinkling of lefties.
not convinced by any measure that lowering speed limits wins votes.Councils have been steamrolling public opinion for so long now its sadly the norm. Most decisions seem to be made by a small handfull of senior citizens and a sprinkling of lefties.
At best its 50/50, and most likely that majority of residents are too tied up in their own lives to give speed limit changes a second thought until it is too late and they've been changed.
Certainly in my village when the changes were proposed, the consultation was voted on by about 40% of the population of the village, of which it was about 60/40 in favour. That was right up until I brought some empirical evidence to the debate
and pretty much stopped it dead.Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
the consultation was voted on by about 40% of the population of the village, of which it was about 60/40 in favour. That was right up until I brought some empirical evidence to the debate and pretty much stopped it dead.
I suspect villagers generally like speed limits in their own village, but break them in other people's villages. and pretty much stopped it dead.Moving from road to river, the Environment Agency was planning to put its licence fee up by 9% - nearly 4x the rate on inflation - so they had a 'consultation' with boat owners. I am fairly damn sure that all respondents would have strongly opposed it. So today the EA announced that it was putting up the fee by 9% anyway. You wonder how much staff time was taken up doing the pointless 'consultation' when they could have been doing something useful, like repairing locks.
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