West Mids Police Chief Retires and Rejoins
Discussion
The PCC for West Midlands Police announced on the 26th November that Chief Constable Craig Guildford retired on 15th November and expects him to rejoin as Chief Constable on 16th December. It's interesting the announcement of the retirement of the highest ranking police officer from the second largest force in the country was two weeks after he actually retired but just coincidentally the same day the news outlets started reporting it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75lp6xxqweo
The retire and rejoin scheme is available for officers to retire after 30 years' service, collect their lump sum payment and then rejoin after a gap of one month deferring their monthly pension payment to when they leave the second time.
The scheme is open to all officers of all ranks but if you leave at a rank higher than Inspector you'll not rejoin at your rank and instead be brought back at Inspector level.
This scheme isn't open in West Midlands for anyone to return higher than Inspector yet that doesn't apply to the chief. They've clearly tried to keep this under wraps and made an announcement when the press have picked up on it. Doesn't exactly do much for transparency when you see this level of nepotism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75lp6xxqweo
The retire and rejoin scheme is available for officers to retire after 30 years' service, collect their lump sum payment and then rejoin after a gap of one month deferring their monthly pension payment to when they leave the second time.
The scheme is open to all officers of all ranks but if you leave at a rank higher than Inspector you'll not rejoin at your rank and instead be brought back at Inspector level.
This scheme isn't open in West Midlands for anyone to return higher than Inspector yet that doesn't apply to the chief. They've clearly tried to keep this under wraps and made an announcement when the press have picked up on it. Doesn't exactly do much for transparency when you see this level of nepotism.
I don’t know the technical nuances of it, but why should he continue to work and (I imagine) pay in to a pension that decreases in value?
Presumably after he rejoins he’s no longer contributing to a pension and therefore nor is the tax payer. That also means his pension pot isn’t growing whilst he continues to be CC at the peak of his value.
Don’t see an issue and would certainly want to know more before making a negative judgement.
Presumably after he rejoins he’s no longer contributing to a pension and therefore nor is the tax payer. That also means his pension pot isn’t growing whilst he continues to be CC at the peak of his value.
Don’t see an issue and would certainly want to know more before making a negative judgement.
No I agree, the pension rules are daft and should have been addressed. The pension actually reduces the longer you serve after 30 years so it doesn’t encourage retention of experienced officers.
The issue is he’s prevented officers above inspector rank from joining the scheme in his own force but he’s bent the rules to allow it for himself and then apparently tried to do it on the sly and not announce it until it came out in the papers.
The issue is he’s prevented officers above inspector rank from joining the scheme in his own force but he’s bent the rules to allow it for himself and then apparently tried to do it on the sly and not announce it until it came out in the papers.
Why does his pension fall in value?
A bunch of Chief Fire Officers did this a while ago, but I read it had been stopped. My understanding was they got both their pension and their salary. Local authorities liked it as it savd them a significant amount in pension contributions.
It's odd how some sections of the public sector can do this. My wife switched redundancy to early retirement from the Civil Service and a while later her old boss asked her to go back to do a project. It was then discovered that waiving the no-rehiring rule was impossible without completely undoing her retirement.
A bunch of Chief Fire Officers did this a while ago, but I read it had been stopped. My understanding was they got both their pension and their salary. Local authorities liked it as it savd them a significant amount in pension contributions.
It's odd how some sections of the public sector can do this. My wife switched redundancy to early retirement from the Civil Service and a while later her old boss asked her to go back to do a project. It was then discovered that waiving the no-rehiring rule was impossible without completely undoing her retirement.
Seeing senior officers buggering around with job roles really doesn’t inspire public or staff confidence.
I did find it moderately amusing recently when a certain ACC created a civilian role for their post, presumably to be able to immediately retire and fill it, and was then unsuccessful in the selection process!
I did find it moderately amusing recently when a certain ACC created a civilian role for their post, presumably to be able to immediately retire and fill it, and was then unsuccessful in the selection process!
carreauchompeur said:
Seeing senior officers buggering around with job roles really doesn’t inspire public or staff confidence.
I did find it moderately amusing recently when a certain ACC created a civilian role for their post, presumably to be able to immediately retire and fill it, and was then unsuccessful in the selection process!
Ha!! I did find it moderately amusing recently when a certain ACC created a civilian role for their post, presumably to be able to immediately retire and fill it, and was then unsuccessful in the selection process!
carreauchompeur said:
Seeing senior officers buggering around with job roles really doesn’t inspire public or staff confidence.
I did find it moderately amusing recently when a certain ACC created a civilian role for their post, presumably to be able to immediately retire and fill it, and was then unsuccessful in the selection process!
I wonder how Walter Mitty of Northampton Parish is doing . The last I heard he had outstanding charges to face regarding the awarding of vehicle maintenance contracts at his previous force . Sorry for the diversion but when you were talking of failure it got me thinking .I did find it moderately amusing recently when a certain ACC created a civilian role for their post, presumably to be able to immediately retire and fill it, and was then unsuccessful in the selection process!
Someone (and it won't be the current government) really needs to grasp the nettle of public sector final salary pensions.
They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
UK_Scat_Pack said:
thisnameistaken said:
highest ranking police officer from the second largest force in the country
West Mids is the 4th largest Police Force in the country, behind Greater Manchester Police and Police Scotland.havoc said:
Someone (and it won't be the current government) really needs to grasp the nettle of public sector final salary pensions.
They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
I don’t particularly see how public can be regarded as unfair when compared to private pensions as everyone is free to choose where they apply to work. They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
The police pension was reformed in 2015, twas then deemed unlawful on grounds of ageism, officers put back on previous pension if desired, and reimposed again in 2022 so they are all now on the reformed pension. However any of their previous pension built up was safe, it then transitioned into the reformed pension so retiring cops now draw their pensions from two different schemes.
The Assistant Chief Constable in South Yorks retired fairly recently and then came back in the same role/rank part time, drawing their pension and the new part time wage.
It's called the 30+ scheme and I think introduced to fill staffing void following austerity spending cuts and the freeze on recruiting. It’s cheaper to do this than recruit & train a new cop and await for them to become experienced and competent. Instead when a cop retires, they can apply to come back part time. But their joint pension and wage can’t exceed what their previous wage was prior to retirement.
It has since been abolished by some forces as they are again needing to save money due to new budget cuts. The 30+ cops are often in office based roles but are now being forced to resign by putting them back on the beat, when they then leave.
Edited by The Gauge on Wednesday 27th November 21:36
The Gauge said:
I don’t particularly see how public can be regarded as unfair when compared to private pensions as everyone is free to choose where they apply to work.
Not entirely.There are entire careers where all or the vast majority of jobs are only in the private sector, and other careers where it's predominantly public sector. So if you're set on being a teacher, or a doctor, or an obstructive bureaucrat, then you pretty much need to go public sector. Conversely if you want to be a solicitor, or a salesman, or a (Cockney rhyming slang notwithstanding) banker, then you're almost certainly going private sector.
(many other examples exist)
For those who can work in either environment, yes the choice exists. But it's a false equivalence in many ways as the environments/cultures are so massively different.
Go back 30 years and (a) there was a clear pay-gap between public and private and (b) private sector pensions weren't known to be a problem / quite a few private sector DB schemes still existed. Then Gordon Brown raided the private sector DB pensions and got them all shut down, while his mates in Cabinet oversaw a substantial increase in public sector pay. Now it's not a huge stretch to say that the private sector are paying for all those cushty public sector jobs.
reddiesel said:
I wonder how Walter Mitty of Northampton Parish is doing . The last I heard he had outstanding charges to face regarding the awarding of vehicle maintenance contracts at his previous force . Sorry for the diversion but when you were talking of failure it got me thinking .
Yep, a real shame I felt. He was one of the most sensible talking CCs around. Until that dropped!thisnameistaken said:
Someone should tell them then. Also, I’m no expert but I’m confident Police Scotland aren’t the second largest force in England.
You said ‘Country’ which signifies the UK not England!And West Mids is certainly not the serving biggest Police Force in the UK according to all sources including the Home Office.
havoc said:
Someone (and it won't be the current government) really needs to grasp the nettle of public sector final salary pensions.
They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
They're often paying hefty amounts in though - my dad was a fireman many years ago and I recall him complaining that 11% of his pay was taken off him for the pension, and I think they pay quite a lot more now.They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
Many similar pay private sector employees are putting 5% into their pension.
Sheepshanks said:
havoc said:
Someone (and it won't be the current government) really needs to grasp the nettle of public sector final salary pensions.
They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
They're often paying hefty amounts in though - my dad was a fireman many years ago and I recall him complaining that 11% of his pay was taken off him for the pension, and I think they pay quite a lot more now.They're utterly unaffordable for the country right now, and have created a two-tier system where the majority of public sector workers can retire after (e.g. here) 30-40 years service on very very good pensions (50% of final salary or better), whilst the majority of private sector workers are now facing 50+ years of working only to see a pension pot worth far less - often 25% of their final income or less.
So 10-15 years less time in retirement (for many that'll be close to halving the retirement period) yet nearly double the annual income...so we're talking 3-4x the 'pot' required to fund it.
Many similar pay private sector employees are putting 5% into their pension.
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