SORN and Insurance

[maz8062]

Hey all, I’ve searched but can’t get a definitive answer.

I’m considering SORN one of cars for the next few months or so. The car is on a multi car policy with Aviva and will be parked on my driveway at home - off road.

If it is SORNed will it still be covered by my insurance in the even of a tree falling on it or any such damage or do I need to take out a speedster laid up policy, speak to the insurance company or whatever?

I get that I won’t lay any tax whike it is off road but it is not clear where the insurance would sit. Would my buildings insurance cover it for example? It’s a minefield.

Thanks

[MrBen.911]

Talk to your insurer and check.

I did so on mine and they confirmed there is no change to the cover when the car is SORNed, but that doesn't mean the same applies to yours.

Your buildings insurance won't cover it.

[maz8062]

MrBen.911 said:

Talk to your insurer and check.

I did so on mine and they confirmed there is no change to the cover when the car is SORNed, but that doesn't mean the same applies to yours.

Your buildings insurance won't cover it.

Thanks mate. Aviva confirmed the same as yours.

[Aretnap]

I've never seen a car insurance policy where keeping the car taxed was a condition of cover, and I doubt whether such a term would be enforceable even if it was included in the policy (as paying tax or not paying tax makes no difference to the risk of a claim).

I've also never been asked by an insurer if the car was SORNed when I took out the policy - and you don't have to tell them about things that they don't ask about.

But if you want to be sure then just read your policy. If it doesn't mention tax or SORN then it means that you are covered in spite of then.

Buildings/contents insurance policies will always explicitly exclude motor vehicles - they are designed not to overlap with car insurance policies.

[NDA]

Interesting. I have a car on SORN insured (I hope) with Admiral - I haven't checked with them. The car has an MOT.

[Old Merc]

I do this every year.
My Mercedes R129 is now in winter "hibernation" in my garage, on SORN till April.
Its on a fully comp annual classic car policy with Lancaster. They are quite happy, I even got a bit of discount.

[BertBert]

Aretnap has nailed it I think here.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Aretnap said:

I've never seen a car insurance policy where keeping the car taxed was a condition of cover, and I doubt whether such a term would be enforceable even if it was included in the policy (as paying tax or not paying tax makes no difference to the risk of a claim).

I've also never been asked by an insurer if the car was SORNed when I took out the policy - and you don't have to tell them about things that they don't ask about.

But if you want to be sure then just read your policy. If it doesn't mention tax or SORN then it means that you are covered in spite of then.

Buildings/contents insurance policies will always explicitly exclude motor vehicles - they are designed not to overlap with car insurance policies.

A taxed vehicle must be insured but a sorned vehicle can be insured or uninsured. If you keep it insured, there's no need to tell your insurer it's sorned, as it just means you aren't using the car at the moment. Just like you wouldn't tell them if you were going on holiday for 2 months and the risk to insurers there is worse, because someone might spot you aren't around and decide to steal your car.

I've never seen a policy with terms that say you must keep using your vehicle, or if you aren't using it, you must keep it taxed. I don't believe any policy has such terms. Why would it? If your car is sorned because you aren't driving it, that's good news for insurers.

[maz8062]

Thanks chaps - I just thought I’d check as you never know with these things. For the cost of VED vs the chance to use it on high days and sunny days, I’m not sure it’s worth the hassle, so I’ll leave it as is.

[Jo-say8k]

It might be worth having a chat with you insurance company about 'laid up' insurance as this is significantly cheaper... but you'd have to weigh up any admin fees etc.

[Sebring440]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

there's no need to tell your insurer it's sorned,

There's a long thread on the Z4 forum that confirms that many insurance providers will not provide cover for SORNed cars:

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132258

[Aretnap]

Sebring440 said:

There's a long thread on the Z4 forum that confirms that many insurance providers will not provide cover for SORNed cars:

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132258

If an insurer doesn't want to cover SORNed vehicles then the onus is on them to do one of three things:

(1) Ask you at the time the policy is taken out whether or not the vehicle is SORNed (I've never known an insurer do this)

(2) Check themselves with the DVLA before they offer a policy, and not offer one if the car is SORNed (in which case SORNing your car will result in no quote, not an invalid policy), or

(3) Include a clause in their policy documents making it a condition of cover that the car remains taxed (I've never seen a clause like that, and I doubt that it would be valid even if they did, for reasons already mentioned)

If they don't do any of these things then they do in fact provide cover for SORNed cars, whatever the bloke who answers the phone thinks. They can't just decline cover based on some secret clause that they don't tell you about until you try to claim.

Edited by Aretnap on Saturday 21st December 17:17

[Unreal]

Aretnap said:

Sebring440 said:

There's a long thread on the Z4 forum that confirms that many insurance providers will not provide cover for SORNed cars:

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132258

If an insurer doesn't want to cover SORNed vehicles then the onus is on them to do one of three things:

(1) Ask you at the time the policy is taken out whether it not the vehicle is SORNed (I've never known an insurer do this)
(2) Check themselves with the DVLA before they offer a policy, and not offer one if the car is SORNed (in which case SORNing your car will result in no quote, not an invalid policy), or
(3) Include a clause in their policy documents making it a condition of cover that the car remains taxed (I've never seen a clause like that, and I doubt that it would be valid even if they did, for reasons already mentioned)

If they don't do any of these things then they do in fact provide cover for SORNed cars, whatever the bloke who answers the phone thinks. They can't just decline cover based on some secret clause that they don't tell you about until you try to claim

I agree.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Unreal said:

Aretnap said:

Sebring440 said:

There's a long thread on the Z4 forum that confirms that many insurance providers will not provide cover for SORNed cars:

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132258

If an insurer doesn't want to cover SORNed vehicles then the onus is on them to do one of three things:

(1) Ask you at the time the policy is taken out whether it not the vehicle is SORNed (I've never known an insurer do this)
(2) Check themselves with the DVLA before they offer a policy, and not offer one if the car is SORNed (in which case SORNing your car will result in no quote, not an invalid policy), or
(3) Include a clause in their policy documents making it a condition of cover that the car remains taxed (I've never seen a clause like that, and I doubt that it would be valid even if they did, for reasons already mentioned)

If they don't do any of these things then they do in fact provide cover for SORNed cars, whatever the bloke who answers the phone thinks. They can't just decline cover based on some secret clause that they don't tell you about until you try to claim

I agree.

Exactly. Let's see the page of a policy with wording that excludes cover if sorned. Without that, everyhting else is just hearsay and waffle.

[Unreal]

These rumours often have their basis in something not quite related.

For example, if you ask for a quote for laid up cover, you may well find the insurer doesn't offer it.

The other problem, as has been noted, is that the person answering the phone, knows next to nothing about the subject.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Unreal said:

The other problem, as has been noted, is that the person answering the phone, knows next to nothing about the subject.

Very true. Call centres are on a par with post office staff selling travel insurance.

[Sebring440]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Exactly. Let's see the page of a policy with wording that excludes cover if sorned. Without that, everyhting else is just hearsay and waffle.

Read the above-linked thread on the Z4 forum then.

The number of forum members that reported that their current insurers (at the time) would not insure their SORNed car, is not hearsay.

There's no use getting all high and mighty about it. Read the T&Cs of your own insurance policy and report back the paragraph about SORNed vehicles.

Two years ago:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Any insurance company is perfectly entitled to include in their contract that they won't insure cars that are sorned. So if your car gets stolen whilst sorned, your policy excludes cover, and you haven't phoned them to advise them of the position and get their agreement to continue cover, you're stuffed.

That's entirely different from forgetting to tax your car. Insurers would have a hard job refusing a claim for an innocent oversight. But sorn, they don't have to cover it if they choose not to. Perhaps they have stats to show cars on sorn have a far higher theft rate than taxed cars, for reasons explained upthread (car is sorned because it isn't running, owner can't afford to fix it, and can't sell it, so arranges to have it nicked)

Edited by Sebring440 on Saturday 21st December 22:11

Edited by Sebring440 on Saturday 21st December 22:12

[maz8062]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Unreal said:

The other problem, as has been noted, is that the person answering the phone, knows next to nothing about the subject.

Very true. Call centres are on a par with post office staff selling travel insurance.

This is exactly what happened today when dealing with Aviva via their AI bot thing. The chap initially said that the car wouldn’t be covered if SORN’d and then changed his mind. Of course I sought clarification explicitly in the chat just in case.

[Aretnap]

Sebring440 said:

Read the above-linked thread on the Z4 forum then.

The number of forum members that reported that their current insurers (at the time) would not insure their SORNed car, is not hearsay.

I didn't bother to read the whole thread because it's full of nonsense and wild speculation, but a couple of observations:

(1) "I read that someone on the internet had been told that..." is hearsay; in fact it's the very definition of hearsay.

(2) Amusingly one of the companies mentioned there as refusing to cover SORNed vehicles is Aviva, which the OP has just confirmed told him (eventually) that they do cover SORNed vehicles. So it seems to depend on who you speak to at Aviva, and whether you manage to get through to someone who has a clue. I suspect it's a similar story with most of the other alleged examples.

Sebring440 said:

There's no use getting all high and mighty about it. Read the T&Cs of your own insurance policy and report back the paragraph about SORNed vehicles

Good idea. I did. There isn't a paragraph about SORNed vehicles.

https://assets.directline.com/motor-docs/policy-bo...

So I checked Aviva's as well, as they seem to be causing a lot of confusion. Again, there is no paragraph about SORNed vehicles.

https://www.online.aviva.co.uk/StaticDocsAV/Insura...

Can you point to any car insurance policy that does have a paragraph about SORNed vehicles? Because I've sort of given up trying to find one.

(And before someone complains that the lack of a clause about SORN must mean that SORNed cars are not covered, that's not how it works. Your policy begins by saying "we will cover damage to your vehicle", so the starting point is that your vehicle is covered. It's then down to the insurer to add "unless..." and list any circumstances in which it is not covered.)

Edited by Aretnap on Saturday 21st December 22:50

[Simpo Two]

maz8062 said:

MrBen.911 said:

Talk to your insurer and check.

I did so on mine and they confirmed there is no change to the cover when the car is SORNed, but that doesn't mean the same applies to yours.

Your buildings insurance won't cover it.

Thanks mate. Aviva confirmed the same as yours.

A SORNed car should be a lower risk as it's not on the road, where most accidents happen. Maybe you should get a discount!