Discussion
On Christmas Eve after I joined the M62 from the M6 junction heading towards Salford it was as if I had reserved lane 1 exclusively for myself. I was doing 70 mph with no traffic ahead in my lane with all the traffic in lanes 2,3 and 4 going slower than me. Lane one was not closed and we were past the Birchwood junction and several miles away from the M60/M602 junction. I maintained a steady speed which meant passing them on the inside. Does that count as undertaking and could I be pulled over by the police for it?
Undertaking:
the action of catching up with and passing another vehicle while travelling on the inside.
"the Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways"
What I am not sure about is whether the definition applies only after first moving left to pass a vehicle or whether it could also apply if you are maintaining position in one lane but are passing slower vehicles on your right. Normally I would cross two lanes to overtake but lanes 3 and 4 were populated by slow drivers so it was not practical to do this.
If what I did was classed as undertaking that means I should have dropped around 15 mph in speed to avoid passing on the left, which seems illogical with an empty lane in front of me.
the action of catching up with and passing another vehicle while travelling on the inside.
"the Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways"
What I am not sure about is whether the definition applies only after first moving left to pass a vehicle or whether it could also apply if you are maintaining position in one lane but are passing slower vehicles on your right. Normally I would cross two lanes to overtake but lanes 3 and 4 were populated by slow drivers so it was not practical to do this.
If what I did was classed as undertaking that means I should have dropped around 15 mph in speed to avoid passing on the left, which seems illogical with an empty lane in front of me.
Edited by al78 on Sunday 29th December 11:40
It probably is classed as undertaking / overtaking on the left, but I occasionally do the same. For me, changing lanes or speed to facilitate the ‘undertake’ is a little different. I’m also very conscious of any potential need to pull out again shortly, so I tend not to do this if I can see I’ll be homing in on slower moving traffic in lane 1.
al78 said:
Undertaking:
the action of catching up with and passing another vehicle while travelling on the inside.
"the Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways"
What I am not sure about is whether the definition applies only after first moving left to pass a vehicle or whether it could also apply if you are maintaining position in one lane but are passing slower vehicles on your right. Normally I would cross two lanes to overtake but lanes 3 and 4 were populated by slow drivers so it was not practical to do this.
If what I did was classed as undertaking that means I should have dropped around 15 mph in speed to avoid passing on the left, which seems illogical with an empty lane in front of me.
‘the Highway Code DISCOURAGES undertaking on motorways’, not forbids it, or says you must not, but ‘discourages’. Think there’s your answer, although it would be interesting to see where you got the quote from and what the HC actually says.the action of catching up with and passing another vehicle while travelling on the inside.
"the Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways"
What I am not sure about is whether the definition applies only after first moving left to pass a vehicle or whether it could also apply if you are maintaining position in one lane but are passing slower vehicles on your right. Normally I would cross two lanes to overtake but lanes 3 and 4 were populated by slow drivers so it was not practical to do this.
If what I did was classed as undertaking that means I should have dropped around 15 mph in speed to avoid passing on the left, which seems illogical with an empty lane in front of me.
Edited by al78 on Sunday 29th December 11:40
al78 said:
On Christmas Eve after I joined the M62 from the M6 junction heading towards Salford it was as if I had reserved lane 1 exclusively for myself. I was doing 70 mph with no traffic ahead in my lane with all the traffic in lanes 2,3 and 4 going slower than me. Lane one was not closed and we were past the Birchwood junction and several miles away from the M60/M602 junction. I maintained a steady speed which meant passing them on the inside. Does that count as undertaking and could I be pulled over by the police for it?
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This has been covered several times before.
A prosecution for passing on the inside would come under Driving Without Due Care and Attention (consideration for other road users).
Whilst passing on the inside is prosecutable, the general directive is that you could regard yourself as extremely hard done by if it was pursued in isolation in the manner you described. It would normally be included with other charges and/or if it was accompanied by weaving between lanes.
If keeping within the speed limit and just cruising in an inside lane, passing other traffic because they are failing to keep left then it’s extremely unlikely you’ll attract any attention.
Moving into an inside lane, passing on the inside, then moving out again starts to become more questionable behaviour.
A prosecution for passing on the inside would come under Driving Without Due Care and Attention (consideration for other road users).
Whilst passing on the inside is prosecutable, the general directive is that you could regard yourself as extremely hard done by if it was pursued in isolation in the manner you described. It would normally be included with other charges and/or if it was accompanied by weaving between lanes.
If keeping within the speed limit and just cruising in an inside lane, passing other traffic because they are failing to keep left then it’s extremely unlikely you’ll attract any attention.
Moving into an inside lane, passing on the inside, then moving out again starts to become more questionable behaviour.
If you were done for undertaking AND your dashcam showed you observing the speed limit I’d go to court to fight the police for NOT ticketing the cars in lanes 2,3,etc for causing an obstruction camping out in those lanes. Probably 70:30 you’d get your case thrown out and gain the satisfaction of the police not enforcing consistency !
al78 said:
On Christmas Eve after I joined the M62 from the M6 junction heading towards Salford it was as if I had reserved lane 1 exclusively for myself. I was doing 70 mph with no traffic ahead in my lane with all the traffic in lanes 2,3 and 4 going slower than me. Lane one was not closed and we were past the Birchwood junction and several miles away from the M60/M602 junction. I maintained a steady speed which meant passing them on the inside. Does that count as undertaking and could I be pulled over by the police for it?
Nah.
I utterly despise the mentality of middle lane hoggers, or in the case of 4 lane sections, lane 3 hoggers.
There is a distinction here and just drifting past them on the inside would never get you stopped by Trafpol. A colleague of mine is very fair and measured with most offences but will always stop them and stick them on for due care.
I think for most it’s a problem of lacking driver education…looking at many of the drivers they probably started in countries where lanes don’t really matter.
And then there are some who are just bloody minded morons…the sort to be found blocking you from a merge. Came across one the other night. Doggedly hogging l2 with not much around. Quick flash from behind, nothing. Move into L3 to overtake and he accelerates. Move back over, I’m not playing silly games, start to drift past on inside and does the same. People are weird.
This seems apposite
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1257404682199512?fs=...
The exception is people being really silly and going Tokyo Drift deliberately swooping between lanes etc.
I utterly despise the mentality of middle lane hoggers, or in the case of 4 lane sections, lane 3 hoggers.
There is a distinction here and just drifting past them on the inside would never get you stopped by Trafpol. A colleague of mine is very fair and measured with most offences but will always stop them and stick them on for due care.
I think for most it’s a problem of lacking driver education…looking at many of the drivers they probably started in countries where lanes don’t really matter.
And then there are some who are just bloody minded morons…the sort to be found blocking you from a merge. Came across one the other night. Doggedly hogging l2 with not much around. Quick flash from behind, nothing. Move into L3 to overtake and he accelerates. Move back over, I’m not playing silly games, start to drift past on inside and does the same. People are weird.
This seems apposite
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1257404682199512?fs=...
The exception is people being really silly and going Tokyo Drift deliberately swooping between lanes etc.
al78 said:
On Christmas Eve after I joined the M62 from the M6 junction heading towards Salford it was as if I had reserved lane 1 exclusively for myself. I was doing 70 mph with no traffic ahead in my lane with all the traffic in lanes 2,3 and 4 going slower than me. Lane one was not closed and we were past the Birchwood junction and several miles away from the M60/M602 junction. I maintained a steady speed which meant passing them on the inside. Does that count as undertaking and could I be pulled over by the police for it?
No. Passing on the left is allowed in certain situations (the term ‘undertaking’ is not a motoring term).carreauchompeur said:
...
There is a distinction here and just drifting past them on the inside would never get you stopped by Trafpol. A colleague of mine is very fair and measured with most offences but will always stop them and stick them on for due care.
...
Sorry, can you clarify? He will always stick the lane hogger on? Or the person passing on the left?There is a distinction here and just drifting past them on the inside would never get you stopped by Trafpol. A colleague of mine is very fair and measured with most offences but will always stop them and stick them on for due care.
...
The consideration to undertake is becoming more necessary of late.
I see lots of drivers remaining in lane 2 of a dual carriageway when lane 1 is clear, completely oblivious. Eventually, six miles further on they might turn right at a roundabout or junction. This suggests their lack the confidence in being in lane 1and changing to lane 2 when needed, so they sit in lane 2 right from the beginning.
Annoying also when Im on my motorbike on a dual carriageway with a clear road ahead. If a car the approaches from a side road wanting to join the carriageway I either..
1) Remain in lane 1 and reduce my speed in case they pull out on me.
2) Move over to lane 2 and reduce speed to increase the reactionary gap should they pull out on me
Every time 2 happens they pull out on me as Im passing them, presumably thinking I'm moving over to let them out. If I remain in lane 1 it's 50:50 whether they pull out on me or not, but with less reactionary gap if they do.
I see lots of drivers remaining in lane 2 of a dual carriageway when lane 1 is clear, completely oblivious. Eventually, six miles further on they might turn right at a roundabout or junction. This suggests their lack the confidence in being in lane 1and changing to lane 2 when needed, so they sit in lane 2 right from the beginning.
Annoying also when Im on my motorbike on a dual carriageway with a clear road ahead. If a car the approaches from a side road wanting to join the carriageway I either..
1) Remain in lane 1 and reduce my speed in case they pull out on me.
2) Move over to lane 2 and reduce speed to increase the reactionary gap should they pull out on me
Every time 2 happens they pull out on me as Im passing them, presumably thinking I'm moving over to let them out. If I remain in lane 1 it's 50:50 whether they pull out on me or not, but with less reactionary gap if they do.
There cannot be a situation where, through either selfishness, ignorance or stupidity, a driver in lane 4 (for example on the M25), can dictate the pace and actions of every driver behind them or to their left - effectively a rolling road block, just because they cannot be in the correct lane.
Actually on the M25 the problem is lane 3.
That's my take on it anyway!
Actually on the M25 the problem is lane 3.
That's my take on it anyway!
Edited by robbyd on Sunday 29th December 21:36
This keeps coming up but really there is no answer, because as the offence (if any) would be driving without due care, it is going to depend on the circumstances.
Which would include: How many lanes gap? IE if you are in lane one, and pass a moron in lane three or four, that is safer than if they were in lane two.
Do you have an escape route, ie a lane (or hard shoulder) to your left?
Are you within the speed limit?
When did you last change lanes?
Is there anything that might make the moron suddenly pull left, such as a junction?
If you are stopped by pol, do you behave like an arse and/or is he having a really bad day?
I'd be wary about choosing to pass on the nearside, and certainly wouldn't do it to make a point when I could change lanes and pass on the offside.
Which would include: How many lanes gap? IE if you are in lane one, and pass a moron in lane three or four, that is safer than if they were in lane two.
Do you have an escape route, ie a lane (or hard shoulder) to your left?
Are you within the speed limit?
When did you last change lanes?
Is there anything that might make the moron suddenly pull left, such as a junction?
If you are stopped by pol, do you behave like an arse and/or is he having a really bad day?
I'd be wary about choosing to pass on the nearside, and certainly wouldn't do it to make a point when I could change lanes and pass on the offside.
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