Buying Your Way Out Of Prison
Discussion
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...
2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't
If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...
2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't
If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
Gastons_Revenge said:
Sentences of a fine or prison time have been common for decades, not sure why this is suddenly a pressing issue for you?
I have never seen such a blatant case the theft millions of pounds does not equal a 2 year suspended sentence
I'm comfortably off but if this is the norm, I'm considering a career change
wonder how much the proceeds investigation was able to work out belonged to him?
theft of millions of pounds worth doesn't mean he has that or that he sold them for market rates. Market rates for stolen good as usually much lower, they want to shift the evidence quickly and the buyers know. A good example for this in the UK is thefts of yankee candles, large ones at £30 a pop get sold for about a fiver according to a magistrate i know. This guy's assets are likely not in the UK so we can't take them, sticking him in jail apparently costs the taxpayer over 50k a year so if repays and does 2 years not 7 the nation is better off by over a million pounds
theft of millions of pounds worth doesn't mean he has that or that he sold them for market rates. Market rates for stolen good as usually much lower, they want to shift the evidence quickly and the buyers know. A good example for this in the UK is thefts of yankee candles, large ones at £30 a pop get sold for about a fiver according to a magistrate i know. This guy's assets are likely not in the UK so we can't take them, sticking him in jail apparently costs the taxpayer over 50k a year so if repays and does 2 years not 7 the nation is better off by over a million pounds
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...
2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't
If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
That will be due to the fine or prison being from a Proceeds of Crime investigation and not from the original offence. The article states this.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...
2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't
If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
If he fails to pay the £££ then this will invoke the 2 years custodial sentence for the original offence and a further 7 for failure to pay the required PoC amount in the time given.
[b]He was subject to a proceeds of crime act investigation and ordered to pay back a total of £873,852.48.
If he fails to he will face an additional seven years imprisonment.[/b]
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 10th January 12:16
KTMsm said:
I hadn't realised we'd descended to allowing scum to buy their way out of a prison sentence
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...
2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't
If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
I think you’re misunderstanding the article. This isn’t unusual. Sentenced to prison, and if he doesn’t repay within a specific timescale, more prison.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn08049xw9yo.a...
2 years suspended if he pays £800k or 7 years if he doesn't
If should be 7 years and we get all of his assets too !
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.
The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
On top of that, there's a POCA confiscation order. That mandates him to repay the £800k within a certain time frame. If he FAILS to pay he becomes liable for the default which is punishable with imprisonment.
The imprisonment is fixed in law (see s35 POCA and S10 Serious Crime Act 2015) which show that where a confiscation order is for £500k to £1m, the fixed term of imprisonment is 7 years. Which means that it's a powerful tool!
Criminals HATE having their money taken away.
The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
On top of that, there's a POCA confiscation order. That mandates him to repay the £800k within a certain time frame. If he FAILS to pay he becomes liable for the default which is punishable with imprisonment.
The imprisonment is fixed in law (see s35 POCA and S10 Serious Crime Act 2015) which show that where a confiscation order is for £500k to £1m, the fixed term of imprisonment is 7 years. Which means that it's a powerful tool!
Criminals HATE having their money taken away.
whimsical ninja said:
The disparity in the sentences comes from their being different parts of the law.
The 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theftThe 2 year suspended sentence is for the crime itself.
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.whimsical ninja said:
KTMsm said:
I agree that's the theory but if someone can provide sentencing guidelines that state theft of millions (on the basis that the PoC is £800k) equals a suspended sentence - then I'm taking up theft
That I can't answer - from reading the article the criminal conviction (which reads like a conviction after trial rather than a guilty plea) was for money laundering offences rather than theft - but these are sentenced even more harshly than theft itself. Leading role, harm 3 (£500k-£2m) has a starting point of 7 years, so we must be missing something.https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23405490.unpaid-...
There's no details about the level of culpability or value assessed for sentencing in the criminal trial. The trial coverage suggests he wasn't part of the gang stealing the tractors. Instead he was the buyer for at least some of them. So the criminal prosecution might have gone after him for a specific instance with a lower value and level B-C culpability, which would bring a 2 year sentence into range with the decision to suspend the sentence then made subsequently.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magi...
Whereas the subsequent POCA forfeiture investigation might have identified other criminal assets that he couldn't explain.
MDMA . said:
Can the law not be changed so all foreign nationals sentenced to prison be deported immediately and serve their time in their home country? I’d also include the deportation of all other family members who are in the country with them.
Keeping him in a UK jail is just costing the taxpayer money. First hit on Google says 'The overall average cost for running a prison place for a year (per prison place) in 2022-23 was £51,724.' So a seven year sentence costs £362K.I'm with MDMA. But it will never happen because we're too soft, or the liberals will cry wacist.
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