Tenant's responsibility, or mine?
Discussion
A slightly curious one as I don't feel it's clear cut, so a steer would be useful as I know there's a few landlords here.
I had a panicked phone call from my tenant yesterday evening saying the bathroom towel radiator had come away from the wall, meaning there'd been a big leak, and this had also tripped most of the house electrics. She asked where the stopcock was and turned off the mains water.
I asked how it had happened, and she said the radiator had felt a little "wobbly" for a while, but it came away when her daughter pulled a towel off the rail. Daughter is around 12/13, so presumably yanked a towel hard enough for this to occur.
I got hold of my plumber who was able to give her some advice on the phone so she could get the mains water back on, and he's booked in to fix this tomorrow. They are still without electricity bar a couple of sockets downstairs. I went round last night and took some extension leads and an electric radiator.
I think the electrics will need some time to dry out before they can be fixed, currently the main circuit protection won't flip back on, unsurprisingly. They may just work again once dry, but I suspect I'll need an electrician out this week too.
My question is obviously who's at fault and therefore pays? My own thinking is a 50/50 split. Half me as if the radiator was indeed wobbly or loose for a while she could have notified me, and this would be in my remit to repair (if only she had!). But the actual coming off the wall was caused by her daughter.
She's a great tenant and I don't have any wish to charge her if this is 100% my responsibility, it just doesn't feel like it fully is in this instance. I'm also conscious it's cold and winter and they'll be without heating/electrics for a couple of days, so maybe I just suck it up given that she's been pragmatic about it to date.
Thoughts welcome.
I had a panicked phone call from my tenant yesterday evening saying the bathroom towel radiator had come away from the wall, meaning there'd been a big leak, and this had also tripped most of the house electrics. She asked where the stopcock was and turned off the mains water.
I asked how it had happened, and she said the radiator had felt a little "wobbly" for a while, but it came away when her daughter pulled a towel off the rail. Daughter is around 12/13, so presumably yanked a towel hard enough for this to occur.
I got hold of my plumber who was able to give her some advice on the phone so she could get the mains water back on, and he's booked in to fix this tomorrow. They are still without electricity bar a couple of sockets downstairs. I went round last night and took some extension leads and an electric radiator.
I think the electrics will need some time to dry out before they can be fixed, currently the main circuit protection won't flip back on, unsurprisingly. They may just work again once dry, but I suspect I'll need an electrician out this week too.
My question is obviously who's at fault and therefore pays? My own thinking is a 50/50 split. Half me as if the radiator was indeed wobbly or loose for a while she could have notified me, and this would be in my remit to repair (if only she had!). But the actual coming off the wall was caused by her daughter.
She's a great tenant and I don't have any wish to charge her if this is 100% my responsibility, it just doesn't feel like it fully is in this instance. I'm also conscious it's cold and winter and they'll be without heating/electrics for a couple of days, so maybe I just suck it up given that she's been pragmatic about it to date.
Thoughts welcome.
Thanks for the responses - including the variety!
Yep I'm happy to pay, I agree it is just the decent thing to do, so appreciate those perspectives, I was just after opinions. She apologised for not letting me know it was loose before (I can't fix what I don't know about!).
She has generally been good at letting me know if there are issues, and I have always jumped on fixing anything needed, it's my asset after all. I've always looked after her and the house. Just sod's law what probably seemed minor, so she didn't tell me, turned into a much bigger issue!
I certainly couldn't "prove" it was her daughter who did it - she told me this was how it happened when I asked, hence I was curious if they might bear some responsibility.
But I take on board what's been said here and will suck it up, and yep, add it to the old tax return!
Yep I'm happy to pay, I agree it is just the decent thing to do, so appreciate those perspectives, I was just after opinions. She apologised for not letting me know it was loose before (I can't fix what I don't know about!).
She has generally been good at letting me know if there are issues, and I have always jumped on fixing anything needed, it's my asset after all. I've always looked after her and the house. Just sod's law what probably seemed minor, so she didn't tell me, turned into a much bigger issue!
I certainly couldn't "prove" it was her daughter who did it - she told me this was how it happened when I asked, hence I was curious if they might bear some responsibility.
But I take on board what's been said here and will suck it up, and yep, add it to the old tax return!
Having been a landlord with poor tenant and rented properties from poor landlords in the past, I think it’s a fair question to ask for advice.
I know from being a landlord, there can be occasions where problems happen which, like this one, could have been mitigated with good communication or regular inspections.
I've had a poor tenant destroy a house before by not looking after it and not reporting issues. Something I learned from.
If it were me, after fixing everything, I'd then speak with the tenant to reiterate the reporting of any defects so they can be fixed in good time. I'd also consider doing a regular inspection - maybe 3 to 4 per year to ensure the property is as it needs to be.
I know from being a landlord, there can be occasions where problems happen which, like this one, could have been mitigated with good communication or regular inspections.
I've had a poor tenant destroy a house before by not looking after it and not reporting issues. Something I learned from.
If it were me, after fixing everything, I'd then speak with the tenant to reiterate the reporting of any defects so they can be fixed in good time. I'd also consider doing a regular inspection - maybe 3 to 4 per year to ensure the property is as it needs to be.
sanguinary said:
Having been a landlord with poor tenant and rented properties from poor landlords in the past, I think it’s a fair question to ask for advice.
I know from being a landlord, there can be occasions where problems happen which, like this one, could have been mitigated with good communication or regular inspections.
I've had a poor tenant destroy a house before by not looking after it and not reporting issues. Something I learned from.
If it were me, after fixing everything, I'd then speak with the tenant to reiterate the reporting of any defects so they can be fixed in good time. I'd also consider doing a regular inspection - maybe 3 to 4 per year to ensure the property is as it needs to be.
Thank you. I've had similar issues in the past, I think tenants are sometimes scared of reporting issues in case they get the blame. I've also been a tenant of several poor landlords in the distant past, and certainly do not want to be one (and am not).I know from being a landlord, there can be occasions where problems happen which, like this one, could have been mitigated with good communication or regular inspections.
I've had a poor tenant destroy a house before by not looking after it and not reporting issues. Something I learned from.
If it were me, after fixing everything, I'd then speak with the tenant to reiterate the reporting of any defects so they can be fixed in good time. I'd also consider doing a regular inspection - maybe 3 to 4 per year to ensure the property is as it needs to be.
I wasn't seeking to do that here (just blame her), merely establish overall responsibility given what she told me about how it happened. During her tenancy she has generally been good about reporting issues, and I've always had everything fixed very swiftly.
Was just seeking some input and balance to my own thoughts.
I've been round reasonably regularly as I generally am there to meet any tradespeople, or inspect any issues she's raised. We (me & tenant) get on very well and have a good relationship and communication. Again, just sod's law that something that probably seemed so minor caused a much bigger issue!
Thanks for your reasoned and helpful reply
I will ask this, don't you have landlords insurance for damage done by tenants? Even if they do load up your premium for a couple years, isn't that less than the possible bill for repairing everything?
It's s
t but having had a nightmare tenant who did a lot of damage and some felt almost deliberate, and then good tenants I'd sooner take a hit to keep a good tenant happy rather than risk getting another twunt of a tenant in.
It's s
t but having had a nightmare tenant who did a lot of damage and some felt almost deliberate, and then good tenants I'd sooner take a hit to keep a good tenant happy rather than risk getting another twunt of a tenant in.mikecassie said:
I will ask this, don't you have landlords insurance for damage done by tenants? Even if they do load up your premium for a couple years, isn't that less than the possible bill for repairing everything?
It's st but having had a nightmare tenant who did a lot of damage and some felt almost deliberate, and then good tenants I'd sooner take a hit to keep a good tenant happy rather than risk getting another twunt of a tenant in.
I absolutely have insurance. I think they'd probably quibble about "fault" (which is fair, as it is indeed my original question!) and the excess is high so I'd rather just take the hit than have it affect my premiums at this point. It's s
t but having had a nightmare tenant who did a lot of damage and some felt almost deliberate, and then good tenants I'd sooner take a hit to keep a good tenant happy rather than risk getting another twunt of a tenant in.Totally agree about keeping good tenants happy! I've been a landlord for 14 years with (seriously touching wood) no problem tenants or major issues. I act as fairly as possible and treat people as I'd wish to be treated, works pretty well. I'm sure my time may come though in terms a future nightmare...
A loose radiator I'd have a go at sorting myself before calling my landlord.
It may off only involved a bit of filler and a new rawlplug.
I'm about to start my 4th year in the flat where my LL has kindly not put up the rent since day one, thus I'm inclined to sort small repairs and replacing fixtures that don't work myself.
The more he gets to just see money coming into his bank account every month for no apparent effort, means cheap compared to elsewhere rent for me
It may off only involved a bit of filler and a new rawlplug.
I'm about to start my 4th year in the flat where my LL has kindly not put up the rent since day one, thus I'm inclined to sort small repairs and replacing fixtures that don't work myself.
The more he gets to just see money coming into his bank account every month for no apparent effort, means cheap compared to elsewhere rent for me
Without wanting to derail this thread, we are tenants in a 2 bed flat paying 2k per month.
We've always had somewhat of a dodgy shower in that its stuck at one temperature.
Now the rainfall shower head will only give us cold water so we have to use the handheld attachment.
We notified the landlord prior to Xmas as some of the floor tiles are also cracked and potentially dangerous.
So far the Landlord has come back with nothing other than saying, " for now you'll have to have baths & whilst its being fixed you'll be without a bathroom for a few days".
We've not heard of any dates to complete the work thus far and no alternative arrangements for us to have a bathroom.
Our rental agreement is up late June & we've recently purchased a flat of our own so we'll be moving out and there is every chance we get our purchase over the line by the end of March. I'm just wondering if the Landlord is obliged to find us a work around for not having a bathroom or if we just suck it up for now and ride out the rental agreement.
Given we've never had a fully functioning shower for over 18 months now, part of me wants to leave once our purchase is compete and tell the Landlord to poke the remaining term.
Any advice would be hugely helpful
We've always had somewhat of a dodgy shower in that its stuck at one temperature.
Now the rainfall shower head will only give us cold water so we have to use the handheld attachment.
We notified the landlord prior to Xmas as some of the floor tiles are also cracked and potentially dangerous.
So far the Landlord has come back with nothing other than saying, " for now you'll have to have baths & whilst its being fixed you'll be without a bathroom for a few days".
We've not heard of any dates to complete the work thus far and no alternative arrangements for us to have a bathroom.
Our rental agreement is up late June & we've recently purchased a flat of our own so we'll be moving out and there is every chance we get our purchase over the line by the end of March. I'm just wondering if the Landlord is obliged to find us a work around for not having a bathroom or if we just suck it up for now and ride out the rental agreement.
Given we've never had a fully functioning shower for over 18 months now, part of me wants to leave once our purchase is compete and tell the Landlord to poke the remaining term.
Any advice would be hugely helpful
Edited by Esquire on Monday 27th January 11:46
Esquire said:
Without wanting to derail this thread, we are tenants in a 2 bed flat paying 2k per month.
We've always had somewhat of a dodgy shower in that its stuck at one temperature.
Now the rainfall shower head will only give us cold water so we have to use the handheld attachment.
We notified the landlord prior to Xmas as some of the floor tiles are also cracked and potentially dangerous.
So far the Landlord has come back with nothing other than saying, " for now you'll have to have baths & whilst its being fixed you'll be without a bathroom for a few days".
We've not heard of any dates to complete the work thus far and no alternative arrangements for us to have a bathroom.
Our rental agreement is up late June & we've recently purchased a flat of our own so we'll be moving out and there is every chance we get our purchase over the line by the end of March. I'm just wondering if the Landlord is obliged to find us a work around for not having a bathroom or if we just suck it up for now and ride out the rental agreement.
Given we've never had a fully functioning shower for over 18 months now, part of me wants to leave once our purchase is compete and tell the Landlord to poke the remaining term.
Any advice would be hugely helpful
As just a normal householder, when we had boilers replaced or bathrooms done out, we just used the local swimming pool showers, plus a kettle and a bowl for in-between.We've always had somewhat of a dodgy shower in that its stuck at one temperature.
Now the rainfall shower head will only give us cold water so we have to use the handheld attachment.
We notified the landlord prior to Xmas as some of the floor tiles are also cracked and potentially dangerous.
So far the Landlord has come back with nothing other than saying, " for now you'll have to have baths & whilst its being fixed you'll be without a bathroom for a few days".
We've not heard of any dates to complete the work thus far and no alternative arrangements for us to have a bathroom.
Our rental agreement is up late June & we've recently purchased a flat of our own so we'll be moving out and there is every chance we get our purchase over the line by the end of March. I'm just wondering if the Landlord is obliged to find us a work around for not having a bathroom or if we just suck it up for now and ride out the rental agreement.
Given we've never had a fully functioning shower for over 18 months now, part of me wants to leave once our purchase is compete and tell the Landlord to poke the remaining term.
Any advice would be hugely helpful
Edited by Esquire on Monday 27th January 11:46
As for your penultimate paragraph, I would be inclined to deduct something from the final bill, taking into account any deposit. Keep records of any correspondence whereby you had previously advised of the issues.
FLGirl said:
My question is obviously who's at fault and therefore pays? My own thinking is a 50/50 split. Half me as if the radiator was indeed wobbly or loose for a while she could have notified me, and this would be in my remit to repair (if only she had!). But the actual coming off the wall was caused by her daughter.
I think that's a weak argument - if the tenant fell through the floor, would you suggest 50/50 - half because the floor was badly installed, half because it was the tenant?If the towel rail was properly installed, it shouldn't of come off the wall with the action of removing a towel.
FLGirl said:
She has generally been good at letting me know if there are issues, and I have always jumped on fixing anything needed, it's my asset after all. I've always looked after her and the house. Just sod's law what probably seemed minor, so she didn't tell me, turned into a much bigger issue!
You might be a good landlord, but I can understand a reticence to report issues when there's a chance the tenant will get blamed instead.Pica-Pica said:
As just a normal householder, when we had boilers replaced or bathrooms done out, we just used the local swimming pool showers, plus a kettle and a bowl for in-between.
The difference is that you were in control of when/whether those repairs were happening.A bit like if there's an intermittent fault on your own out-of-warranty car... vs a hire car.
Pica-Pica said:
As for your penultimate paragraph, I would be inclined to deduct something from the final bill, taking into account any deposit. Keep records of any correspondence whereby you had previously advised of the issues.
You need to be very, VERY careful withholding renthttps://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
sanguinary said:
If it were me, after fixing everything, I'd then speak with the tenant to reiterate the reporting of any defects so they can be fixed in good time. I'd also consider doing a regular inspection - maybe 3 to 4 per year to ensure the property is as it needs to be.
Is the correct answer.Pica-Pica said:
As just a normal householder, when we had boilers replaced or bathrooms done out, we just used the local swimming pool showers, plus a kettle and a bowl for in-between.
As for your penultimate paragraph, I would be inclined to deduct something from the final bill, taking into account any deposit. Keep records of any correspondence whereby you had previously advised of the issues.
Thanks. As for your penultimate paragraph, I would be inclined to deduct something from the final bill, taking into account any deposit. Keep records of any correspondence whereby you had previously advised of the issues.
The deposit was £2300 and i'm not inclined to get into a big old discussion asking for a reduction so in all probability we'll ride out the remaining lease and put up with the shower.
If the Landlord tries to get said shower fixed once we've given notice we'll make it as inconvenient for them as they have done for us.
Pica-Pica said:
Esquire said:
Without wanting to derail this thread, we are tenants in a 2 bed flat paying 2k per month.
We've always had somewhat of a dodgy shower in that its stuck at one temperature.
Now the rainfall shower head will only give us cold water so we have to use the handheld attachment.
We notified the landlord prior to Xmas as some of the floor tiles are also cracked and potentially dangerous.
So far the Landlord has come back with nothing other than saying, " for now you'll have to have baths & whilst its being fixed you'll be without a bathroom for a few days".
We've not heard of any dates to complete the work thus far and no alternative arrangements for us to have a bathroom.
Our rental agreement is up late June & we've recently purchased a flat of our own so we'll be moving out and there is every chance we get our purchase over the line by the end of March. I'm just wondering if the Landlord is obliged to find us a work around for not having a bathroom or if we just suck it up for now and ride out the rental agreement.
Given we've never had a fully functioning shower for over 18 months now, part of me wants to leave once our purchase is compete and tell the Landlord to poke the remaining term.
Any advice would be hugely helpful
As just a normal householder, when we had boilers replaced or bathrooms done out, we just used the local swimming pool showers, plus a kettle and a bowl for in-between.We've always had somewhat of a dodgy shower in that its stuck at one temperature.
Now the rainfall shower head will only give us cold water so we have to use the handheld attachment.
We notified the landlord prior to Xmas as some of the floor tiles are also cracked and potentially dangerous.
So far the Landlord has come back with nothing other than saying, " for now you'll have to have baths & whilst its being fixed you'll be without a bathroom for a few days".
We've not heard of any dates to complete the work thus far and no alternative arrangements for us to have a bathroom.
Our rental agreement is up late June & we've recently purchased a flat of our own so we'll be moving out and there is every chance we get our purchase over the line by the end of March. I'm just wondering if the Landlord is obliged to find us a work around for not having a bathroom or if we just suck it up for now and ride out the rental agreement.
Given we've never had a fully functioning shower for over 18 months now, part of me wants to leave once our purchase is compete and tell the Landlord to poke the remaining term.
Any advice would be hugely helpful
Edited by Esquire on Monday 27th January 11:46
As for your penultimate paragraph, I would be inclined to deduct something from the final bill, taking into account any deposit. Keep records of any correspondence whereby you had previously advised of the issues.
If our landlord drags his feet over repairs (sadly all too often), after a suitable period of inaction, I will email the letting agent stating that if there has been no progress by a certain date, we will take steps to have the work done ourselves and deduct the cost from future rent payments. I believe that this is the correct legal position to take.
To date, this has provided sufficient motivation for the landlord to approve the required work!
OP when you do your inspections check for things like wobbly radiators, loose shelfs, carpets etc. NOT because it's the tenants faults but if you pick these things up early it saves you money and time downstream.
Also in your AST add things like where the gas and water stop cocks are and make sure the tenant knows where to find them and us them. Speaking from experience after a tenant broke the outdoor tap off in winter and left water gushing out...that night the water froze all down and across the street making a skating rink and they called me paniced not knowing where the stop cock was.
Also in your AST add things like where the gas and water stop cocks are and make sure the tenant knows where to find them and us them. Speaking from experience after a tenant broke the outdoor tap off in winter and left water gushing out...that night the water froze all down and across the street making a skating rink and they called me paniced not knowing where the stop cock was.
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