Dealership bodged software update - where do we stand?
Discussion
So, this is on behalf of a friend whose husband works away and she appears to be being taken advantage of.
Their couple of years old Defender 110 went in to a small satellite branch of a Land Rover dealership for an MOT.
While in, they decided to do some sort of software update. In doing so, they’ve completely immobilised the car. I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do, but I’m sure we could find out.
The issue, however, is that this was three weeks ago. They are offering zero information and no timeline. At this point, they’ve stopped taking her calls. It wouldn’t be so bad if they gave a like-for-like courtesy car, but they have fobbed her off with a small estate. They ordinarily use their D110 for rural pursuits, large dog transport etc, so they are fairly stuck without something similar.
At this point it’s clear they’re taking advantage of my friend’s good nature. They’re fairly new to the area and while consciously not trying to be pushy, she is being a bit trampled on. Her husband works away so she’s dealing with this on her own.
Do we have any ideas how best to force a resolution? I think my personal tactic would be to head to the main dealership vs this little satellite maintenance station, and not leave until I had a suitable courtesy car for a start. Unfortunately she can’t just demand their car back because it doesn’t work at this stage.
Just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions - are we entering the realm of going legal?
FWIW, I’m not sure whether this troublesome update was something agreed upon, or what exactly it was. I can find out if anyone thinks it makes a difference.
Their couple of years old Defender 110 went in to a small satellite branch of a Land Rover dealership for an MOT.
While in, they decided to do some sort of software update. In doing so, they’ve completely immobilised the car. I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do, but I’m sure we could find out.
The issue, however, is that this was three weeks ago. They are offering zero information and no timeline. At this point, they’ve stopped taking her calls. It wouldn’t be so bad if they gave a like-for-like courtesy car, but they have fobbed her off with a small estate. They ordinarily use their D110 for rural pursuits, large dog transport etc, so they are fairly stuck without something similar.
At this point it’s clear they’re taking advantage of my friend’s good nature. They’re fairly new to the area and while consciously not trying to be pushy, she is being a bit trampled on. Her husband works away so she’s dealing with this on her own.
Do we have any ideas how best to force a resolution? I think my personal tactic would be to head to the main dealership vs this little satellite maintenance station, and not leave until I had a suitable courtesy car for a start. Unfortunately she can’t just demand their car back because it doesn’t work at this stage.
Just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions - are we entering the realm of going legal?
FWIW, I’m not sure whether this troublesome update was something agreed upon, or what exactly it was. I can find out if anyone thinks it makes a difference.
Moderator edit: no naming and shaming
Send a letter (recorded) stating they have had the car long enough to fix and that the hire car is inadequate. State that unless the car is returned in working order within seven days a hire car will be sourced until such time as the car is fixed. State that you will pursue the recovery of the hire car costs.
In addition they should be given them the opportunity to lend a car of similar size and capability. You should also request they give you a date of when the car will be available and if they are unable to fix the car should be returned to you (you can then go on to say that you will then persue them for losses such as the loss of car value if it cannot be fixed/hire car/garage costs and do on).
See if that wakes them up
In addition they should be given them the opportunity to lend a car of similar size and capability. You should also request they give you a date of when the car will be available and if they are unable to fix the car should be returned to you (you can then go on to say that you will then persue them for losses such as the loss of car value if it cannot be fixed/hire car/garage costs and do on).
See if that wakes them up
Same issue occurred on our Defender Sport with an over the air update 2 years ago. Completely bricked the car and they had to manually disengage the parking brake and pull it onto a low loader. Took weeks to get sorted, in the end they had to get a JLR tech in to completely reinstall the software. It's been fine ever since. Hatfields Pickering were the dealer so they might have something on file that helps, DM me for the reg etc if they need more info.
Title should read "software update killed car". Dealer may well have done everything perfectly and it happened anyway.
Pedantry? Not if you are thinking of blowing any cooperation by going legal at the dealer and suggesting bodgery which may be very easy for them to refute.
As Andy’s example shows, this can happen and is not always straightforward to resolve. Of course they still have certain responsibilities but I imagine they will come under the vehicle’s warranty rather than with the obligation to carry out the repair to the required standard and that gets passed to the manufacturer rather than the dealer which can complicate things a little.
I agree that chasing the head branch or locating a contact point for the dealer principal would be a good next move. Ideally you rely on their efforts to get the manufacturers involved as they will almost certainly have more buttons to press there than you will.
Modern cars eh, especially certain brands
.
Pedantry? Not if you are thinking of blowing any cooperation by going legal at the dealer and suggesting bodgery which may be very easy for them to refute.
As Andy’s example shows, this can happen and is not always straightforward to resolve. Of course they still have certain responsibilities but I imagine they will come under the vehicle’s warranty rather than with the obligation to carry out the repair to the required standard and that gets passed to the manufacturer rather than the dealer which can complicate things a little.
I agree that chasing the head branch or locating a contact point for the dealer principal would be a good next move. Ideally you rely on their efforts to get the manufacturers involved as they will almost certainly have more buttons to press there than you will.
Modern cars eh, especially certain brands
.Just my opinion here.
What possible benefit could going to another dealer have?
Surely, she needs to go to the people who have her car?
At least she does have a car to be mobile meanwhile, you state "They ordinarily use their D110 for rural pursuits" but as her OH is away, that rules the THEY out, and an estate can still transport a dog, even a large dog in a small estate, yes.
I think the statement "it's clear they are taking advantage of her good nature" is at best unfounded without intimate knowledge of the garage's attempts to fix the issue, and at worst completely untrue.
The statement (you will note I didn't say fact, as I have no first hand information) that they aren't taking her calls is the reason she needs to go in person to the garage manager to my mind.
If you REALLY think she is being taken advantage of, go/get someone else to go with her.
What possible benefit could going to another dealer have?
Surely, she needs to go to the people who have her car?
At least she does have a car to be mobile meanwhile, you state "They ordinarily use their D110 for rural pursuits" but as her OH is away, that rules the THEY out, and an estate can still transport a dog, even a large dog in a small estate, yes.
I think the statement "it's clear they are taking advantage of her good nature" is at best unfounded without intimate knowledge of the garage's attempts to fix the issue, and at worst completely untrue.
The statement (you will note I didn't say fact, as I have no first hand information) that they aren't taking her calls is the reason she needs to go in person to the garage manager to my mind.
If you REALLY think she is being taken advantage of, go/get someone else to go with her.
Royal Jelly said:
. They’re fairly new to the area and while consciously not trying to be pushy,
Where did they move to, Royston Vasey? In what way does being fairly new to an area impact on how you handle the situation? Go down to the dealership and speak to someone, if that gets nowhere then find out who owns it and escalate with them. My 7 series was baulked via software for 3-4 weeks several attempts to fix lots of "it's sorted now" (but wasn't) left me stranded on the drive due to the issue several times, you have to be a squeaky wheel in these situations not rude but visible and yes a bit pushy if needed.
Steve H said:
Title should read "software update killed car". Dealer may well have done everything perfectly and it happened anyway.
(Snipped)
Modern cars eh, especially certain brands.
I remember when JLR launched the new defender, boasting about the fact it had over 100 ECU's on board. What a shocking piece of systems design and an itegration nightmare (Snipped)
Modern cars eh, especially certain brands
.
Royal Jelly said:
They’re fairly new to the area and while consciously not trying to be pushy, she is being a bit trampled on. Her husband works away so she’s dealing with this on her own.
I don't think that's unusual - all JLR dealers treat everyone terribly.Royal Jelly said:
Do we have any ideas how best to force a resolution? I think my personal tactic would be to head to the main dealership vs this little satellite maintenance station, and not leave until I had a suitable courtesy car for a start.
More practically, as the car is under warranty, how about contacting JLR customer service? If that fails, then the consumer help page of her favourite newspaper. I'd expect JLR's press office to rustle up a car pronto.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Tuesday 28th January 10:34
It’s an email to the CEO of JLR - Adrian Mardell (amardell@jaguarlandrover.com) with the franchised dealership head on copy. That will prompt some action and if needs be, they'll get a Tech in from Solihull in to have a look at the vehicle.
I’m confused about the ‘estate-car’ you say your friend has been loaned when LR don’t have any estates in their fleet? Is it actually being looked at within a franchise? You say it went in for an MOT (at three years) but it’s only a couple of years old? The detail here is important as JLR won’t want to know if it’s out of their warranty.
I’d also be reticent in taking the vehicle away from the dealer it’s at as you’ll struggle to get another-one to get involved once they know the vehicle has been bricked and the other dealer has washed their hands of it.
Talk of going to the press and them having to rustle-up a press car won’t intimidate them. It also won’t get your friends problems resolved.
Stuff happens, things go wrong, that’s life. Your friend needs to concentrate on the solution and not being part of the problem. Escalation to the board at Solihull will move the situation forwards at pace and the solution, a lot nearer.
I’m confused about the ‘estate-car’ you say your friend has been loaned when LR don’t have any estates in their fleet? Is it actually being looked at within a franchise? You say it went in for an MOT (at three years) but it’s only a couple of years old? The detail here is important as JLR won’t want to know if it’s out of their warranty.
I’d also be reticent in taking the vehicle away from the dealer it’s at as you’ll struggle to get another-one to get involved once they know the vehicle has been bricked and the other dealer has washed their hands of it.
Talk of going to the press and them having to rustle-up a press car won’t intimidate them. It also won’t get your friends problems resolved.
Stuff happens, things go wrong, that’s life. Your friend needs to concentrate on the solution and not being part of the problem. Escalation to the board at Solihull will move the situation forwards at pace and the solution, a lot nearer.
Crudeoink said:
I remember when JLR launched the new defender, boasting about the fact it had over 100 ECU's on board. What a shocking piece of systems design and an itegration nightmare
My old Defender doesn't have one 
Isn't the go to complaining platform Twitter / X now ? A friend has had results from a few companies by having a whinge at them online.
E-bmw said:
Just my opinion here.
What possible benefit could going to another dealer have?
Surely, she needs to go to the people who have her car?
At least she does have a car to be mobile meanwhile, you state "They ordinarily use their D110 for rural pursuits" but as her OH is away, that rules the THEY out, and an estate can still transport a dog, even a large dog in a small estate, yes.
I think the statement "it's clear they are taking advantage of her good nature" is at best unfounded without intimate knowledge of the garage's attempts to fix the issue, and at worst completely untrue.
The statement (you will note I didn't say fact, as I have no first hand information) that they aren't taking her calls is the reason she needs to go in person to the garage manager to my mind.
If you REALLY think she is being taken advantage of, go/get someone else to go with her.
The garage the car is at is a small satellite servicing garage, the ‘parent’ company has a full dealership in a town 30 mins away. I presume they have more senior management there - ones who can perhaps make decisions that are above the mechanics where the car is. What possible benefit could going to another dealer have?
Surely, she needs to go to the people who have her car?
At least she does have a car to be mobile meanwhile, you state "They ordinarily use their D110 for rural pursuits" but as her OH is away, that rules the THEY out, and an estate can still transport a dog, even a large dog in a small estate, yes.
I think the statement "it's clear they are taking advantage of her good nature" is at best unfounded without intimate knowledge of the garage's attempts to fix the issue, and at worst completely untrue.
The statement (you will note I didn't say fact, as I have no first hand information) that they aren't taking her calls is the reason she needs to go in person to the garage manager to my mind.
If you REALLY think she is being taken advantage of, go/get someone else to go with her.
And no, the estate they have provided is nowhere near big enough for their use - their Newfoundland would be like a cat in a fishbowl in the back. And sorry, if you spend 80k on a car from a dealership, I think it’s a reasonable expectation that a courtesy vehicle is of reasonably similar capability. Particularly in the SUV realm. I certainly have only received the same or better cars from Porsche.
It isn’t ‘unfounded’ or ‘untrue’ that they are taking advantage of her. She is trying to be very affable. She was hoping for a continued relationship with JLR, she isn’t pushy, and she’s on her own. It’s pretty obvious that the local farming community wouldn’t be as relaxed if it happened to them.
Thanks for the other suggestions, folks.
A trip to speak to the general manager at the main branch is the first port of call.
FYI It went in for an MOT, and the update was not something that was discussed.
Red9zero said:
Crudeoink said:
I remember when JLR launched the new defender, boasting about the fact it had over 100 ECU's on board. What a shocking piece of systems design and an itegration nightmare
My old Defender doesn't have one Isn't the go to complaining platform Twitter / X now ? A friend has had results from a few companies by having a whinge at them online.
@OP has she actually seen the car? They haven't bent it have they?
I've seen text in the 'small print' of insurance policies obliging owners to keep the software up to date.
So the update may not be optional.
Would it also be required for the warranty?
Was the car really just taken for an MOT?
Normally with a 3 year old car with a warranty, you'd combine that with at least the minimum checkover/service?
Or you'd take it to a plain old MOT station not a franchised dealer?
So the update may not be optional.
Would it also be required for the warranty?
Was the car really just taken for an MOT?
Normally with a 3 year old car with a warranty, you'd combine that with at least the minimum checkover/service?
Or you'd take it to a plain old MOT station not a franchised dealer?
Steve H said:
It was only a couple of years old in the OP, first MoT is at three years. I mention this because I think the warranty is only three years?
It would also be very odd for them to do a SW update if it was just there for an Mot.
Agreed. Its an odd set of circumstances which has lead to this issue and It’s proving difficult to offer meaningful and accurate advice to the OP as the issue presented is confusing to say the least. It would also be very odd for them to do a SW update if it was just there for an Mot.
The vehicle is two years old, yet going in for its first MOT? It’s at a main dealer, yet it is a satellite repair only branch? There is no tangible leadership and management in situ at this branch? So is it actually a main dealer then if it doesn’t have a Service Manager? They’ve provided the OP’s friend with a loaner - which is clearly not a LR product - which is strange - if it went for just an MOT - they’d do it while waiting and not monopolise a loaner for a full day?
I do hope that the OP and his friend get the resolution they’re wanting but it’s far from a clear-cut situation as far as I can tell.
Edited by ADJimbo on Wednesday 29th January 10:08
ADJimbo said:
Agreed. Its an odd set of circumstances which has lead to this issue and It’s proving difficult to offer meaningful and accurate advice to the OP as the issue presented is confusing to say the least.
The vehicle is two years old, yet going in for its first MOT? It’s at a main dealer, yet it is a satellite repair only branch? There is no tangible leadership and management in situ at this branch? So is it actually a main dealer then if it doesn’t have a Service Manager? They’ve provided the OP’s friend with a loaner - which is clearly not a LR product - which is strange - if it went for just an MOT - they’d do it while waiting and not monopolise a loaner for a full day?
I do hope that the OP and his friend get the resolution they’re wanting but it’s far from a clear-cut situation as far as I can tell.
It seems a little pedantic on the age thing, although an exactly 2yr old car seems a lot newer than one which is very nearly 3.The vehicle is two years old, yet going in for its first MOT? It’s at a main dealer, yet it is a satellite repair only branch? There is no tangible leadership and management in situ at this branch? So is it actually a main dealer then if it doesn’t have a Service Manager? They’ve provided the OP’s friend with a loaner - which is clearly not a LR product - which is strange - if it went for just an MOT - they’d do it while waiting and not monopolise a loaner for a full day?
I do hope that the OP and his friend get the resolution they’re wanting but it’s far from a clear-cut situation as far as I can tell.
The software update will be some kind of service measure - so like a recall, but without a recall notice being issued - and to be carried but next time the car comes in.
Lots of dealerships don't have service managers now - often there's an After Sales Director who will work across a few of the dealerships branches.
ADJimbo said:
Steve H said:
It was only a couple of years old in the OP, first MoT is at three years. I mention this because I think the warranty is only three years?
It would also be very odd for them to do a SW update if it was just there for an Mot.
Agreed. Its an odd set of circumstances which has lead to this issue and It’s proving difficult to offer meaningful and accurate advice to the OP as the issue presented is confusing to say the least. It would also be very odd for them to do a SW update if it was just there for an Mot.
The vehicle is two years old, yet going in for its first MOT? It’s at a main dealer, yet it is a satellite repair only branch? There is no tangible leadership and management in situ at this branch? So is it actually a main dealer then if it doesn’t have a Service Manager? They’ve provided the OP’s friend with a loaner - which is clearly not a LR product - which is strange - if it went for just an MOT - they’d do it while waiting and not monopolise a loaner for a full day?
I do hope that the OP and his friend get the resolution they’re wanting but it’s far from a clear-cut situation as far as I can tell.
Edited by ADJimbo on Wednesday 29th January 10:08
rscott said:
ADJimbo said:
Steve H said:
It was only a couple of years old in the OP, first MoT is at three years. I mention this because I think the warranty is only three years?
It would also be very odd for them to do a SW update if it was just there for an Mot.
Agreed. Its an odd set of circumstances which has lead to this issue and It’s proving difficult to offer meaningful and accurate advice to the OP as the issue presented is confusing to say the least. It would also be very odd for them to do a SW update if it was just there for an Mot.
The vehicle is two years old, yet going in for its first MOT? It’s at a main dealer, yet it is a satellite repair only branch? There is no tangible leadership and management in situ at this branch? So is it actually a main dealer then if it doesn’t have a Service Manager? They’ve provided the OP’s friend with a loaner - which is clearly not a LR product - which is strange - if it went for just an MOT - they’d do it while waiting and not monopolise a loaner for a full day?
I do hope that the OP and his friend get the resolution they’re wanting but it’s far from a clear-cut situation as far as I can tell.
Edited by ADJimbo on Wednesday 29th January 10:08
On the subject of software updates.
The first thing a main dealer will plan in when a dealer car comes into the workshop will almost inevitably be a software check/update they are free when under warranty AFAIK.
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