Police In Devon stopping people and passing them to bailiffs
Discussion
Police stopping people at joint DVSA Road Side Check and then handed them over to council and Civil Enforcement Bailiffs if Plymouth City say you have outstanding parking fines!
https://www.plymouthplus.co.uk/over-100-drivers-st...
I am pretty sure years ago The Met did the same thing with TFL and Bailiffs and there was a complaint and legal challenge and The Met were told it was not lawful and they cannot blur the lines between criminal and civil as it always used to be that Police cannot get involved in Civil Legal Matters and must remain impartial.
The issue comes as police and council have no lawful authority as far as I am aware to stop motorist and detain them and the police are effectively using their powers of detainment to aid Civil Recovery, unless I am wrong?
https://www.plymouthplus.co.uk/over-100-drivers-st...
I am pretty sure years ago The Met did the same thing with TFL and Bailiffs and there was a complaint and legal challenge and The Met were told it was not lawful and they cannot blur the lines between criminal and civil as it always used to be that Police cannot get involved in Civil Legal Matters and must remain impartial.
The issue comes as police and council have no lawful authority as far as I am aware to stop motorist and detain them and the police are effectively using their powers of detainment to aid Civil Recovery, unless I am wrong?
Dog Star said:
Hang on - but if someone steals from you (or there’s the slightest hint of them being able to worm out) then they’ll pull the “I’m afraid that’s a civil matter sir” line.
We aren't talking personal debts we are talking Plymouth City Fines in this case.Bailiffs and Enforcement Agents have a remit in some cases they use ANPR to find vehicles owing DVLA VED or Fine in some cases.
Since the police are snowed under and cannot attend many crimes no I would prefer they did not get involved in abusing their powers to stop motorists and detaining them to Bailiffs can hold them to ransom.
If they have debts to collect they should attend these peoples homes and collect monies through a lawful route.
LosingGrip said:
It wouldn't have just been for the unpaid fines.
We do similar things with DVSA, HMRC for red diesel. We stop them for various reasons and the others use their powers to have a look over the vehicles as well.
Yes but they are criminal matters, collecting unpaid parking fines is'ntWe do similar things with DVSA, HMRC for red diesel. We stop them for various reasons and the others use their powers to have a look over the vehicles as well.
Heres the previous incident where Police were stopping cars and handing over to bailiffs - subsequently ruled unlawful as I recall
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/powers_to_s...
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/powers_to_s...
LosingGrip said:
It wouldn't have just been for the unpaid fines.
We do similar things with DVSA, HMRC for red diesel. We stop them for various reasons and the others use their powers to have a look over the vehicles as well.
Once the driver has complied with their obligations under the road traffic act and the vehicle has been checked over then surely theyre free to leave with no obligation to speak with other parties?We do similar things with DVSA, HMRC for red diesel. We stop them for various reasons and the others use their powers to have a look over the vehicles as well.
James.Pond said:
Police stopping people at joint DVSA Road Side Check and then handed them over to council and Civil Enforcement Bailiffs if Plymouth City say you have outstanding parking fines!
https://www.plymouthplus.co.uk/over-100-drivers-st...
I am pretty sure years ago The Met did the same thing with TFL and Bailiffs and there was a complaint and legal challenge and The Met were told it was not lawful and they cannot blur the lines between criminal and civil as it always used to be that Police cannot get involved in Civil Legal Matters and must remain impartial.
The issue comes as police and council have no lawful authority as far as I am aware to stop motorist and detain them and the police are effectively using their powers of detainment to aid Civil Recovery, unless I am wrong?
Weren't the police stopping vehicles for safety checks.....and the Council and Bailiffs were also present carrying out their own checks??https://www.plymouthplus.co.uk/over-100-drivers-st...
I am pretty sure years ago The Met did the same thing with TFL and Bailiffs and there was a complaint and legal challenge and The Met were told it was not lawful and they cannot blur the lines between criminal and civil as it always used to be that Police cannot get involved in Civil Legal Matters and must remain impartial.
The issue comes as police and council have no lawful authority as far as I am aware to stop motorist and detain them and the police are effectively using their powers of detainment to aid Civil Recovery, unless I am wrong?
Where's the information that they, or their details, were passed to the Bailiffs?
James.Pond said:
Dog Star said:
Hang on - but if someone steals from you (or there’s the slightest hint of them being able to worm out) then they’ll pull the “I’m afraid that’s a civil matter sir” line.
We aren't talking personal debts we are talking Plymouth City Fines in this case.Bailiffs and Enforcement Agents have a remit in some cases they use ANPR to find vehicles owing DVLA VED or Fine in some cases.
Since the police are snowed under and cannot attend many crimes no I would prefer they did not get involved in abusing their powers to stop motorists and detaining them to Bailiffs can hold them to ransom.
If they have debts to collect they should attend these peoples homes and collect monies through a lawful route.
Bigends said:
Heres the previous incident where Police were stopping cars and handing over to bailiffs - subsequently ruled unlawful as I recall
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/powers_to_s...
Is there any evidence, given that it may have been unlawful, that the same tactics were being used on this occasion?https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/powers_to_s...
Because it's not mentioned in the article.
Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Heres the previous incident where Police were stopping cars and handing over to bailiffs - subsequently ruled unlawful as I recall
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/powers_to_s...
Is there any evidence, given that it may have been unlawful, that the same tactics were being used on this occasion?https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/powers_to_s...
Because it's not mentioned in the article.
'Not only were the police and DVSA involved in the checkpoint but Civil Enforcement Officers from Plymouth City Council and their bailiff were present, attempting to recover unpaid parking charges'.
have been done without the assistance of officers bearing in mind the driver would be under no obligation to speak with the enforcement officers - assuming they werent informed that this was the case?
Edited by Bigends on Thursday 13th February 19:08
The police lawfully stop the vehicle.
The Bailiffs approaches.
The Bailiff engages with the driver.
Driver does or doesn't speak with the Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article to suggest the police had any involvement in the interaction between the driver and Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article that suggests the police forced the drivers to speak with the Bailiffs.
Is there any information from the council on how much they recovered?
Are people getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened?
The Bailiffs approaches.
The Bailiff engages with the driver.
Driver does or doesn't speak with the Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article to suggest the police had any involvement in the interaction between the driver and Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article that suggests the police forced the drivers to speak with the Bailiffs.
Is there any information from the council on how much they recovered?
Are people getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened?
Nibbles_bits said:
The police lawfully stop the vehicle.
The Bailiffs approaches.
The Bailiff engages with the driver.
Driver does or doesn't speak with the Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article to suggest the police had any involvement in the interaction between the driver and Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article that suggests the police forced the drivers to speak with the Bailiffs.
Is there any information from the council on how much they recovered?
Are people getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened?
Police shouldn't have any dealings with debt collectors other than usual breach of peace issuesThe Bailiffs approaches.
The Bailiff engages with the driver.
Driver does or doesn't speak with the Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article to suggest the police had any involvement in the interaction between the driver and Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article that suggests the police forced the drivers to speak with the Bailiffs.
Is there any information from the council on how much they recovered?
Are people getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened?
Bigends said:
Nibbles_bits said:
The police lawfully stop the vehicle.
The Bailiffs approaches.
The Bailiff engages with the driver.
Driver does or doesn't speak with the Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article to suggest the police had any involvement in the interaction between the driver and Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article that suggests the police forced the drivers to speak with the Bailiffs.
Is there any information from the council on how much they recovered?
Are people getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened?
Police shouldn't have any dealings with debt collectors other than usual breach of peace issuesThe Bailiffs approaches.
The Bailiff engages with the driver.
Driver does or doesn't speak with the Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article to suggest the police had any involvement in the interaction between the driver and Bailiffs.
There's nothing in the article that suggests the police forced the drivers to speak with the Bailiffs.
Is there any information from the council on how much they recovered?
Are people getting angry about something that hasn't actually happened?
There's nothing to suggest the police had any involvement with the Bailiffs dealing with the unpaid fines.
Seems they were doing spot checks for MOTs, dodgy tyres etc. But the Council and Chums tagged along to see if they could nab people as well:
"Not only were the police and DVSA involved in the checkpoint but Civil Enforcement Officers from Plymouth City Council and their bailiff were present, attempting to recover unpaid parking charges."
Seems pretty lousy either way though. Are these kind of operations commonplace with or without the parking ticket hunters?
"Not only were the police and DVSA involved in the checkpoint but Civil Enforcement Officers from Plymouth City Council and their bailiff were present, attempting to recover unpaid parking charges."
Seems pretty lousy either way though. Are these kind of operations commonplace with or without the parking ticket hunters?
Alex_225 said:
Seems they were doing spot checks for MOTs, dodgy tyres etc. But the Council and Chums tagged along to see if they could nab people as well:
"Not only were the police and DVSA involved in the checkpoint but Civil Enforcement Officers from Plymouth City Council and their bailiff were present, attempting to recover unpaid parking charges."
Seems pretty lousy either way though. Are these kind of operations commonplace with or without the parking ticket hunters?
They uses to be quite common......until the budget cuts."Not only were the police and DVSA involved in the checkpoint but Civil Enforcement Officers from Plymouth City Council and their bailiff were present, attempting to recover unpaid parking charges."
Seems pretty lousy either way though. Are these kind of operations commonplace with or without the parking ticket hunters?
We had trading standards attend one of ours.
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