Flat Service Charge - Is this normal?
Discussion
My daughter bought a flat Jan 2025. She has to deal with this dreadful "Firstport" organisation re service charge.
Anyway she has received an invoice for £92 as an excess on the 2022 service charge as they over spent that year. My daughter has repeatedly told them she didn't own the flat then so the charge is not hers. They have igniored that and continually hassle her to pay it.
Finally yesterday Firstport tell my daughter to tell her conveyancing solicitor to tell the original flat owner's solicitor to sort iot out and get it paid. My daughter doesn't see why she should incur additional solicitor fees for an invoice that isn't hers.
So options:
1 - My daughter is minded just to pay it as she expects solicitor fees to exceed the £92. I say yes that is easiest BUT what if there are further additional costs still to come from 2023 and 2024, will she pay those too? It could be quite a lot.
2 - She gives Firstport the previous owners details and tells them to contact him on this matter. I don't think Firstport's "system" can handle this and my daughter will just get endless more threats from Firstport who simply associate the account with my daughter. Firstport really are useless. I think we should nevertheless try this and take the threats that will keep coming about non payment (we have explained this 6 times already).
3 - She goes through her solicitor as Firsport suggests and pay their charges. We could ask their fees before we go down this route I suppose.
My question: This must be common when people move out of flats with service charges, how is it normally handled?
Many thanks for anyone that can give a correct way forward.
Anyway she has received an invoice for £92 as an excess on the 2022 service charge as they over spent that year. My daughter has repeatedly told them she didn't own the flat then so the charge is not hers. They have igniored that and continually hassle her to pay it.
Finally yesterday Firstport tell my daughter to tell her conveyancing solicitor to tell the original flat owner's solicitor to sort iot out and get it paid. My daughter doesn't see why she should incur additional solicitor fees for an invoice that isn't hers.
So options:
1 - My daughter is minded just to pay it as she expects solicitor fees to exceed the £92. I say yes that is easiest BUT what if there are further additional costs still to come from 2023 and 2024, will she pay those too? It could be quite a lot.
2 - She gives Firstport the previous owners details and tells them to contact him on this matter. I don't think Firstport's "system" can handle this and my daughter will just get endless more threats from Firstport who simply associate the account with my daughter. Firstport really are useless. I think we should nevertheless try this and take the threats that will keep coming about non payment (we have explained this 6 times already).
3 - She goes through her solicitor as Firsport suggests and pay their charges. We could ask their fees before we go down this route I suppose.
My question: This must be common when people move out of flats with service charges, how is it normally handled?
Many thanks for anyone that can give a correct way forward.
Assuming she is not the freeholder, I ‘think’ this comes under the landlord and tenant act and section 20 has an 18 month restriction period which has now passed, so I don’t actually think they can chase this.
If the seller was aware, and the agent/freeholder was aware, the Solicitors should have found this.
If the seller was aware, and the agent/freeholder was aware, the Solicitors should have found this.
davek_964 said:
I don't think I'd do any of those.
I'd keep saying it's not my bill and it's up to them to find the correct owner if they want it paid.
And if they continue to hassle me, I will look into taking them to court for harassment.
+1 although I’d be a little more restrained about taking them to court and would allude to it only. I'd keep saying it's not my bill and it's up to them to find the correct owner if they want it paid.
And if they continue to hassle me, I will look into taking them to court for harassment.
I’d be sending a firm but polite-ish email to them whilst cc’ing both their complaints dept ( assuming they have one ) and also their CEO /MD pointing out that what happened 3 years prior is nothing to do with her and that any future comms from them will be passed to a solicitor etc for harassment.
normalbloke said:
Firsport are hideous. Second only to RMG. I wish you well with the predicament, a property ‘managed’ by either of the above would have me running a mile whilst property hunting.
I was very restrained regarding Firstport in my initial post as I can feel my blood pressure increasing every time I mention them. I am sure their tenants have a higher than normal suicide / heart attack rate.Ok thanks everyone. really appreciate you giving your time to help with our problem.
What we will do is reply (again! 7th time!) stating this isn't our invoice as only bought in Jan 2025 and they should direct it to the original owner. We will also ask for their complaints and CEO email addresses as they have ignored all statements to this effect so far.
Many thanks.
What we will do is reply (again! 7th time!) stating this isn't our invoice as only bought in Jan 2025 and they should direct it to the original owner. We will also ask for their complaints and CEO email addresses as they have ignored all statements to this effect so far.
Many thanks.
I had this recently, ironically on my daughter’s flat (which I helped her with the process). The seller’s conveyancers were supposed to to clear any arrears on the service charges paid quarterly, but they didn’t. The managing agents got in touch with my daughter and said the liability of £445 was actually hers to pay as she’d inherited the liability for service charges with the lease.
I couldn’t be bothered to review the lease to determine the accuracy of this but I contacted our conveyancers to raise it with the other party’s solicitors…my conveyancers did nothing. Eventually I contacted the other party’s solicitors directly and much to my surprise they picked it up quite quickly, contacted their client who then settled the bill.
Above doesn’t really help you much but it MAY be the case according to the terms of the lease that your daughter does have the liability, but I would get in touch with your solicitor, and if that fails, then the original seller’s solicitor, and ask them to pick it up. I’d expect them to cover this as part of their conveyancing costs without charging extra.
Was worth it for us for £445, not sure I’d bother for £92 or if the process incurred extra costs.
I couldn’t be bothered to review the lease to determine the accuracy of this but I contacted our conveyancers to raise it with the other party’s solicitors…my conveyancers did nothing. Eventually I contacted the other party’s solicitors directly and much to my surprise they picked it up quite quickly, contacted their client who then settled the bill.
Above doesn’t really help you much but it MAY be the case according to the terms of the lease that your daughter does have the liability, but I would get in touch with your solicitor, and if that fails, then the original seller’s solicitor, and ask them to pick it up. I’d expect them to cover this as part of their conveyancing costs without charging extra.
Was worth it for us for £445, not sure I’d bother for £92 or if the process incurred extra costs.
PhilboSE said:
I had this recently, ironically on my daughter’s flat (which I helped her with the process). The seller’s conveyancers were supposed to to clear any arrears on the service charges paid quarterly, but they didn’t. The managing agents got in touch with my daughter and said the liability of £445 was actually hers to pay as she’d inherited the liability for service charges with the lease.
I couldn’t be bothered to review the lease to determine the accuracy of this but I contacted our conveyancers to raise it with the other party’s solicitors…my conveyancers did nothing. Eventually I contacted the other party’s solicitors directly and much to my surprise they picked it up quite quickly, contacted their client who then settled the bill.
Above doesn’t really help you much but it MAY be the case according to the terms of the lease that your daughter does have the liability, but I would get in touch with your solicitor, and if that fails, then the original seller’s solicitor, and ask them to pick it up. I’d expect them to cover this as part of their conveyancing costs without charging extra.
Was worth it for us for £445, not sure I’d bother for £92 or if the process incurred extra costs.
Yep, appreciate yours was a slightly different situation, the previous owner did pay pro rata ground rent/service charge to the date of completion. My daughter's issue relates to a new charge just added a few weeks ago relating to an underestimate oif the 2022 service charges. Why it has taken 3 years to find this underestimate I do not know. I suspect there will be underestimates found for 2023 and 2024 idc and that is why I'm not jsut paying the £92, what if 2023/2024 charges are huge?I couldn’t be bothered to review the lease to determine the accuracy of this but I contacted our conveyancers to raise it with the other party’s solicitors…my conveyancers did nothing. Eventually I contacted the other party’s solicitors directly and much to my surprise they picked it up quite quickly, contacted their client who then settled the bill.
Above doesn’t really help you much but it MAY be the case according to the terms of the lease that your daughter does have the liability, but I would get in touch with your solicitor, and if that fails, then the original seller’s solicitor, and ask them to pick it up. I’d expect them to cover this as part of their conveyancing costs without charging extra.
Was worth it for us for £445, not sure I’d bother for £92 or if the process incurred extra costs.
I haven't read the lease, as you say it might say such charges are inherited with the lease which would seem unfair to me but not impossible.
Ussrcossack said:
I'm glad I'm out of lease holds.
The issue is that if this remains unpaid your daughter will probably be unable to sell.
I'd be loath to pay, but would start to exhaust all your avenues and put the money aside just in case
Didn't know about the not being able to sell so thanks. I have a feeling if the current strategy doesn't work we will just pay it as Firstport's system will keep sending out threatening letters and maybe even repossession threats as well. Anyway thanks.The issue is that if this remains unpaid your daughter will probably be unable to sell.
I'd be loath to pay, but would start to exhaust all your avenues and put the money aside just in case
Scarletpimpofnel said:
Ussrcossack said:
I'm glad I'm out of lease holds.
The issue is that if this remains unpaid your daughter will probably be unable to sell.
I'd be loath to pay, but would start to exhaust all your avenues and put the money aside just in case
Didn't know about the not being able to sell so thanks. I have a feeling if the current strategy doesn't work we will just pay it as Firstport's system will keep sending out threatening letters and maybe even repossession threats as well. Anyway thanks.The issue is that if this remains unpaid your daughter will probably be unable to sell.
I'd be loath to pay, but would start to exhaust all your avenues and put the money aside just in case
mcflurry said:
Was there a retention held back by the solicitors to ensure that all bills were up to date?
This!! During the purchase her solicitor should have held an amount in reserve to pay any unpaid bills. An up to date account statement should have been obtained to show any outstanding debt, which would be paid by the previous owner. The reserve amount is held for any subsequent bills.
I had exactly the same and had to pay it. Luckily the previous owner was a good chap and sent me a cheque for it. It'll result in a charge against the property if she doesn't sort it.
Apologies if this has been mentioned already but isn't this covered by the Leaseholder Management Pack that the seller provides (and the buyer's solicitor checks) when the lease is sold?
https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/conveyancin...
https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/conveyancin...
Oh yes FirstPort – strikes dread into the heart of every property expert.
Your Daughter’s solicitor will have served a Notice of Transfer & Charge (if she has a mortgage) on the Management Company and they should have updated their records to reflect this and noted when she purchased the property.
1. Would her solicitor really charge extra for this? Perhaps a quick call would cost less than the £92 & possible further charges.
2. It’s not for FirstPort to contact the seller and in all honesty I don’t think they would anyway.
3. See 1.
It is common. What usually happens is service charge and ground rent are apportioned so any charges are paid by the Sellers up to completion then the Buyers from the date of completion. It is also fairly common practice for the Sellers’ solicitors to hold a retention for a fixed period of time to cover this sort of thing happening
Your daughter needs to speak to her solicitor about this. No ifs or buts. This only completed in January.
Good Luck
Your Daughter’s solicitor will have served a Notice of Transfer & Charge (if she has a mortgage) on the Management Company and they should have updated their records to reflect this and noted when she purchased the property.
1. Would her solicitor really charge extra for this? Perhaps a quick call would cost less than the £92 & possible further charges.
2. It’s not for FirstPort to contact the seller and in all honesty I don’t think they would anyway.
3. See 1.
It is common. What usually happens is service charge and ground rent are apportioned so any charges are paid by the Sellers up to completion then the Buyers from the date of completion. It is also fairly common practice for the Sellers’ solicitors to hold a retention for a fixed period of time to cover this sort of thing happening
Your daughter needs to speak to her solicitor about this. No ifs or buts. This only completed in January.
Good Luck
Your daughter has effectively bought the leasehold interest and taken over as the Tenant. I can easily see a position that it is her responsibility.
The purchase contract may have something in it which provides protection. in the first instance I think this is a question for the solicitor who acted for her when she purchased the property. Too many unknowns otherwise.
PS - I don't work in the residential leasehold market and have no idea of their are statutory limitations with regard to the time period etc
The purchase contract may have something in it which provides protection. in the first instance I think this is a question for the solicitor who acted for her when she purchased the property. Too many unknowns otherwise.
PS - I don't work in the residential leasehold market and have no idea of their are statutory limitations with regard to the time period etc
Any known unpaid amounts should be stated on an 'LPE' form prior to sale completion, however obviously if this is a new charge it won't have been known to any solicitor during the sale, if the freeholder didn't communicate it then (or didn't even know themselves).
It is however not yours bill to pay, I'd say its the freeholders issue and the freeholder should be the one tracing down the previous lessee for reimbursement if they want. Freeholders determine how service charged are collected, calculated and paid, not the lessee. So coming with a bill to a new occupier is absolute BS, you had nothing to do with how charges were previously collected. If they've mis-calculated the amounts they were previously charging people thats on them.
What if they came and said oh its an extra $200, $500, $1000 that someone else owed. No chance.
It is however not yours bill to pay, I'd say its the freeholders issue and the freeholder should be the one tracing down the previous lessee for reimbursement if they want. Freeholders determine how service charged are collected, calculated and paid, not the lessee. So coming with a bill to a new occupier is absolute BS, you had nothing to do with how charges were previously collected. If they've mis-calculated the amounts they were previously charging people thats on them.
What if they came and said oh its an extra $200, $500, $1000 that someone else owed. No chance.
Juan B said:
Any known unpaid amounts should be stated on an 'LPE' form prior to sale completion, however obviously if this is a new charge it won't have been known to any solicitor during the sale, if the freeholder didn't communicate it then (or didn't even know themselves).
It is however not yours bill to pay I'd say its the freeholders issue and the freeholder should be the one tracing down the previous lessee for reimbursement if they want. Freeholders determine how service charged are collected, calculated and paid, not the lessee. So coming with a bill to a new occupier is absolute BS, you had nothing to do with how charges were previously collected. If they've mis-calculated the amounts they were previously charging people thats on them.
What if they came and said oh its an extra $200, $500, $1000 that someone else owed. No chance.
It could very well be the OPs daughters bill to pay if the conveyancing didn't account for it.It is however not yours bill to pay I'd say its the freeholders issue and the freeholder should be the one tracing down the previous lessee for reimbursement if they want. Freeholders determine how service charged are collected, calculated and paid, not the lessee. So coming with a bill to a new occupier is absolute BS, you had nothing to do with how charges were previously collected. If they've mis-calculated the amounts they were previously charging people thats on them.
What if they came and said oh its an extra $200, $500, $1000 that someone else owed. No chance.
I had the same scenario but with a house I purchased on an unadopted road for maintenance overspend on the estate prior to me setting foot on it.
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