Speed Limit For System Test
Discussion
It was the same yesterday J5-J9, they've got rid of the roadwork 50mph limits and put this up instead.
This morning at 6oclock I see they've got rid of the 50mph limits for the new emergency areas from M11 to A1, replaced by 40 & 50mph temporary limits that went further than the old roadworks limits. Frustrating doesn't quite cover it after a year of 50mph roadwork limits.
This morning at 6oclock I see they've got rid of the 50mph limits for the new emergency areas from M11 to A1, replaced by 40 & 50mph temporary limits that went further than the old roadworks limits. Frustrating doesn't quite cover it after a year of 50mph roadwork limits.
I've seen this in the last month too - essentially whilst cars have got safer over the last 60 years, speed limits are decreasing by the day. It's just another way of keeping everyone at 50mph.... also had 18 miles of "object reported in carriageway" and 50mph 10 days ago - there was no object. Handful of clowns causing chaos across the m'way network.
E63eeeeee... said:
Pretty sure it's just what it says, they did the same thing on the M6 smart motorway section when it was first complete, presumably they have to test all the cameras and speed monitoring systems before it can be accredited to go back to normal 70mph running in the new setup.
I thought they just built some new emergency areas/laybys!HughG said:
E63eeeeee... said:
Pretty sure it's just what it says, they did the same thing on the M6 smart motorway section when it was first complete, presumably they have to test all the cameras and speed monitoring systems before it can be accredited to go back to normal 70mph running in the new setup.
I thought they just built some new emergency areas/laybys!
(it's like the story of paying one person to dig a hole and then paying the next person to fill said hole)
I don’t know why Highways put up information about why the speed limit is reduced for testing. It is of no relevance, makes no difference to whether the speed limit is mandatory because it is mandatory, and this message just causes confusion.
Same goes for the signs that say “camera not in use”. No purpose for them at all…other to inform drivers who would like to exceed the speed limit to do so.
Same goes for the signs that say “camera not in use”. No purpose for them at all…other to inform drivers who would like to exceed the speed limit to do so.
2020vision said:
I don’t know why Highways put up information about why the speed limit is reduced for testing. It is of no relevance, makes no difference to whether the speed limit is mandatory because it is mandatory, and this message just causes confusion.
Same goes for the signs that say “camera not in use”. No purpose for them at all…other to inform drivers who would like to exceed the speed limit to do so.
We've disagreed about this before. Telling people what's going on and why is a good thing. Giving instructions in absence of explanation is a bad thing.Same goes for the signs that say “camera not in use”. No purpose for them at all…other to inform drivers who would like to exceed the speed limit to do so.
BertBert said:
2020vision said:
I don’t know why Highways put up information about why the speed limit is reduced for testing. It is of no relevance, makes no difference to whether the speed limit is mandatory because it is mandatory, and this message just causes confusion.
Same goes for the signs that say “camera not in use”. No purpose for them at all…other to inform drivers who would like to exceed the speed limit to do so.
We've disagreed about this before. Telling people what's going on and why is a good thing. Same goes for the signs that say “camera not in use”. No purpose for them at all…other to inform drivers who would like to exceed the speed limit to do so.
It has become obvious that some drivers believe speed limits and red x signs are conditional, they are not.
BertBert said:
Giving instructions in absence of explanation is a bad thing.
giving explanations when they are:1. superfluous
2. unhelpful
3. unnecessary
4. tending to confuse the ignorant
5. assisting the commission of a criminal offence
6. not enhancing the instruction or its intent
...are all bad things
;
2020vision said:
I don’t know why Highways put up information about why the speed limit is reduced for testing. It is of no relevance, makes no difference to whether the speed limit is mandatory because it is mandatory, and this message just causes confusion.
Well, we often we find a stretch of motorway at 50mph for no visible reason and wonder why the heck that should be. So a reason is nice. Perhaps the most honest sign would be 'Speed Limit 50mph BECAUSE WE CAN'....Maybe Rachel in her quest for growth will realise that the more slowly people travel the less productive they are, so she'll put everything back to 70.
Second day in a row for me now on M25 wigh this pointless blanket 50mph system test limit both there & back from St.Albans to deepest Essex - basically a quarter of the whole M25.
Unbelieveably dangerous situation with frustrated truckies tailgating & lane swapping as they're desparate to stay on their 57mph limiter and at least three cars that had lost the plot and weaved through us all at 80mph like it was a Hollywood car chase.
"If only everyone obeyed the law" holier than everyone else types are welcome to do a speech at my funeral when someone has snapped at these pointless limits and taken me out on a misjudged manoeveur.
if this 'system test' is a precursor to full time 50mph limits on 'Smart' motorways then I fkin despair / get a job in B&Q.
Unbelieveably dangerous situation with frustrated truckies tailgating & lane swapping as they're desparate to stay on their 57mph limiter and at least three cars that had lost the plot and weaved through us all at 80mph like it was a Hollywood car chase.
"If only everyone obeyed the law" holier than everyone else types are welcome to do a speech at my funeral when someone has snapped at these pointless limits and taken me out on a misjudged manoeveur.
if this 'system test' is a precursor to full time 50mph limits on 'Smart' motorways then I fkin despair / get a job in B&Q.
moto_traxport said:
"If only everyone obeyed the law" holier than everyone else types are welcome to do a speech at my funeral when someone has snapped at these pointless limits and taken me out on a misjudged manoeveur.
if this 'system test' is a precursor to full time 50mph limits on 'Smart' motorways then I fkin despair / get a job in B&Q.
You can be sure they're collecting data for some bent 'consultation'...if this 'system test' is a precursor to full time 50mph limits on 'Smart' motorways then I fkin despair / get a job in B&Q.
Talking of 'holier than everyone else types' I encountered one of those on Monday proceeding at 25mph. So I overtook him... and the little twerp hooted me as I went past.
Simpo Two said:
Well, we often we find a stretch of motorway at 50mph for no visible reason and wonder why the heck that should be. So a reason is nice. Perhaps the most honest sign would be 'Speed Limit 50mph BECAUSE WE CAN'....
Maybe Rachel in her quest for growth will realise that the more slowly people travel the less productive they are, so she'll put everything back to 70.
While it may be nice, what are you going to do that is different depending upon the reasons shown?Maybe Rachel in her quest for growth will realise that the more slowly people travel the less productive they are, so she'll put everything back to 70.
While I am sure there will be much ire generated by the next paragraph, here goes.
The speed limit, when shown is mandatory, no matter what reason it is shown. Indeed, the speed limit displayed along with the message "Speed limit for system test" is still a mandatory limit. Look at the Traffic Orders that impose a variable speed limit. There are no conditions placed upon the speed limits imposed by a variable sign shown in those orders.
I can't think why the message is being shown. It is more likely to cause congestion and danger and erratic behaviour than not showing the message. The reason I say this is because some drivers will think the limit is not mandatory so will drive in excess of that limit, while others will comply. Speed differential is created and this leads to conflict, danger and traffic congestion.
There is as much use in putting a message up that says "Jimmy's granny is 95 today" as there is in putting "Speed limit for test".
Whereas, not showing a message alongside a speed limit removes the doubt and this debate would not be taking place. Hence the message is superfluous and perpetuates the misunderstanding that speed limits on variable speed limit sections of motorways have conditions and compliance is dependent upon those conditions. The method of speed management encouraged by speed limits and the enforcement of those relies upon the maximum number of drivers complying with the variable speed limits. Putting reasons up and giving drivers options in complying, while being "nice" is not a rational process...as this debate demonstrates.
Would there be any messages that would cause you to comply or not comply with a speed limit on a variable speed limit section of motorway and why? Bear in mind that any message you consider being a reason to exceed a variable speed limit is not a reason to exceed the mandatory speed limit.
Edited by 2020vision on Friday 4th April 12:44
2020vision said:
While it may be nice, what are you going to do that is different depending upon the reasons shown?
While I am sure there will be much ire generated by the next paragraph, here goes.
The speed limit, when shown is mandatory, no matter what reason it is shown. Indeed, the speed limit displayed along with the message "Speed limit for system test" is still a mandatory limit. Look at the Traffic Orders that impose a variable speed limit. There are no conditions placed upon the speed limits imposed by a variable sign shown in those orders.
I can't think why the message is being shown. It is more likely to cause congestion and danger and erratic behaviour than not showing the message. The reason I say this is because some drivers will think the limit is not mandatory so will drive in excess of that limit, while others will comply. Speed differential is created and this leads to conflict, danger and traffic congestion.
There is as much use in putting a message up that says "Jimmy's granny is 95 today" as there is in putting "Speed limit for test".
Whereas, not showing a message alongside a speed limit removes the doubt and this debate would not be taking place. Hence the message is superfluous and perpetuates the misunderstanding that speed limits on variable speed limit sections of motorways have conditions and compliance is dependent upon those conditions. The method of speed management encouraged by speed limits and the enforcement of those relies upon the maximum number of drivers complying with the variable speed limits. Putting reasons up and giving drivers options in complying, while being "nice" is not a rational process...as this debate demonstrates.
Would there be any messages that would cause you to comply or not comply with a speed limit on a variable speed limit section of motorway and why? Bear in mind that any message you consider being a reason to exceed a variable speed limit is not a reason to exceed the mandatory speed limit.
No ire, but as before you have got the wrong end of the stick. It's nothing to do with the legality or the enforecability of a limit.While I am sure there will be much ire generated by the next paragraph, here goes.
The speed limit, when shown is mandatory, no matter what reason it is shown. Indeed, the speed limit displayed along with the message "Speed limit for system test" is still a mandatory limit. Look at the Traffic Orders that impose a variable speed limit. There are no conditions placed upon the speed limits imposed by a variable sign shown in those orders.
I can't think why the message is being shown. It is more likely to cause congestion and danger and erratic behaviour than not showing the message. The reason I say this is because some drivers will think the limit is not mandatory so will drive in excess of that limit, while others will comply. Speed differential is created and this leads to conflict, danger and traffic congestion.
There is as much use in putting a message up that says "Jimmy's granny is 95 today" as there is in putting "Speed limit for test".
Whereas, not showing a message alongside a speed limit removes the doubt and this debate would not be taking place. Hence the message is superfluous and perpetuates the misunderstanding that speed limits on variable speed limit sections of motorways have conditions and compliance is dependent upon those conditions. The method of speed management encouraged by speed limits and the enforcement of those relies upon the maximum number of drivers complying with the variable speed limits. Putting reasons up and giving drivers options in complying, while being "nice" is not a rational process...as this debate demonstrates.
Would there be any messages that would cause you to comply or not comply with a speed limit on a variable speed limit section of motorway and why? Bear in mind that any message you consider being a reason to exceed a variable speed limit is not a reason to exceed the mandatory speed limit.
Edited by 2020vision on Friday 4th April 12:44
It's got to do with the attitudes to the limit and the propensity to obey them or not. We see here time and time again the scorn shown to variable speed limits as people do not know why the limit is lower. So they naturally distrust the limits and think that the setters of the limits are morons with no sense (whether people of machines created by people to do that). If all the drivers thought the opposite that the reduced limits were there for super good reasons and the people and machines making them were really clever, their attitudes to obeying the limits would be better and their potential hazard awareness would be higher. A better outcome.
BertBert said:
2020vision said:
While it may be nice, what are you going to do that is different depending upon the reasons shown?
While I am sure there will be much ire generated by the next paragraph, here goes.
The speed limit, when shown is mandatory, no matter what reason it is shown. Indeed, the speed limit displayed along with the message "Speed limit for system test" is still a mandatory limit. Look at the Traffic Orders that impose a variable speed limit. There are no conditions placed upon the speed limits imposed by a variable sign shown in those orders.
I can't think why the message is being shown. It is more likely to cause congestion and danger and erratic behaviour than not showing the message. The reason I say this is because some drivers will think the limit is not mandatory so will drive in excess of that limit, while others will comply. Speed differential is created and this leads to conflict, danger and traffic congestion.
There is as much use in putting a message up that says "Jimmy's granny is 95 today" as there is in putting "Speed limit for test".
Whereas, not showing a message alongside a speed limit removes the doubt and this debate would not be taking place. Hence the message is superfluous and perpetuates the misunderstanding that speed limits on variable speed limit sections of motorways have conditions and compliance is dependent upon those conditions. The method of speed management encouraged by speed limits and the enforcement of those relies upon the maximum number of drivers complying with the variable speed limits. Putting reasons up and giving drivers options in complying, while being "nice" is not a rational process...as this debate demonstrates.
Would there be any messages that would cause you to comply or not comply with a speed limit on a variable speed limit section of motorway and why? Bear in mind that any message you consider being a reason to exceed a variable speed limit is not a reason to exceed the mandatory speed limit.
No ire, but as before you have got the wrong end of the stick. It's nothing to do with the legality or the enforecability of a limit.While I am sure there will be much ire generated by the next paragraph, here goes.
The speed limit, when shown is mandatory, no matter what reason it is shown. Indeed, the speed limit displayed along with the message "Speed limit for system test" is still a mandatory limit. Look at the Traffic Orders that impose a variable speed limit. There are no conditions placed upon the speed limits imposed by a variable sign shown in those orders.
I can't think why the message is being shown. It is more likely to cause congestion and danger and erratic behaviour than not showing the message. The reason I say this is because some drivers will think the limit is not mandatory so will drive in excess of that limit, while others will comply. Speed differential is created and this leads to conflict, danger and traffic congestion.
There is as much use in putting a message up that says "Jimmy's granny is 95 today" as there is in putting "Speed limit for test".
Whereas, not showing a message alongside a speed limit removes the doubt and this debate would not be taking place. Hence the message is superfluous and perpetuates the misunderstanding that speed limits on variable speed limit sections of motorways have conditions and compliance is dependent upon those conditions. The method of speed management encouraged by speed limits and the enforcement of those relies upon the maximum number of drivers complying with the variable speed limits. Putting reasons up and giving drivers options in complying, while being "nice" is not a rational process...as this debate demonstrates.
Would there be any messages that would cause you to comply or not comply with a speed limit on a variable speed limit section of motorway and why? Bear in mind that any message you consider being a reason to exceed a variable speed limit is not a reason to exceed the mandatory speed limit.
Edited by 2020vision on Friday 4th April 12:44
It's got to do with the attitudes to the limit and the propensity to obey them or not. We see here time and time again the scorn shown to variable speed limits as people do not know why the limit is lower. So they naturally distrust the limits and think that the setters of the limits are morons with no sense (whether people of machines created by people to do that). If all the drivers thought the opposite that the reduced limits were there for super good reasons and the people and machines making them were really clever, their attitudes to obeying the limits would be better and their potential hazard awareness would be higher. A better outcome.
Reason given on National Highways website for M25 speed restriction during a system test:
"Although we'll remove much of the traffic management from these motorways, we'll maintain a 50mph speed restriction.
This is a safety measure while we test new technology and upgraded Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) system.
Testing ensures newly installed technology is working correctly. We can only do this when there are no roadworks and when all lanes of the motorway are open.
Upgrading SVD is separate to building the new emergency areas. We've delivered the projects side-by-side to minimise disruption.
You won’t see us doing this work. Once tests are complete, we'll increase speed to the national limit."
No end date given.
Drving through it currently. Well, I'm the passenger. Decided to Google it.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/south-eas...
"Although we'll remove much of the traffic management from these motorways, we'll maintain a 50mph speed restriction.
This is a safety measure while we test new technology and upgraded Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) system.
Testing ensures newly installed technology is working correctly. We can only do this when there are no roadworks and when all lanes of the motorway are open.
Upgrading SVD is separate to building the new emergency areas. We've delivered the projects side-by-side to minimise disruption.
You won’t see us doing this work. Once tests are complete, we'll increase speed to the national limit."
No end date given.
Drving through it currently. Well, I'm the passenger. Decided to Google it.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/south-eas...
Edited by HopefullyHelpful on Saturday 19th April 16:30
HopefullyHelpful said:
Reason given on National Highways website for M25 speed restriction during a system test:
"Although we'll remove much of the traffic management from these motorways, we'll maintain a 50mph speed restriction.
This is a safety measure while we test new technology and upgraded Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) system.
Testing ensures newly installed technology is working correctly. We can only do this when there are no roadworks and when all lanes of the motorway are open.
Upgrading SVD is separate to building the new emergency areas. We've delivered the projects side-by-side to minimise disruption.
You won’t see us doing this work. Once tests are complete, we'll increase speed to the national limit."
No end date given.
Drving through it currently. Well, I'm the passenger. Decided to Google it.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/south-eas...
Outstanding lurking!!!"Although we'll remove much of the traffic management from these motorways, we'll maintain a 50mph speed restriction.
This is a safety measure while we test new technology and upgraded Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) system.
Testing ensures newly installed technology is working correctly. We can only do this when there are no roadworks and when all lanes of the motorway are open.
Upgrading SVD is separate to building the new emergency areas. We've delivered the projects side-by-side to minimise disruption.
You won’t see us doing this work. Once tests are complete, we'll increase speed to the national limit."
No end date given.
Drving through it currently. Well, I'm the passenger. Decided to Google it.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/south-eas...
Edited by HopefullyHelpful on Saturday 19th April 16:30
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