Non-EU living in an EU country - with a twist

[Batfoy]

My wife is an EU citizen living with me here in the UK. She is Croatian (dual citizenship, UK/HR) and whilst I can legally move to Croatia with her and live quite happily with no restrictions, she's very keen to live in Italy.

What I'm not sure about is whether I can join her in Italy under the same principles (all things being equal) as if we were moving to Croatia. i.e legal partner of an EU/HR citizen therefore not subject to the rules and regs that would apply to someone without a family/spouse connection.

Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation? Very aware that EU countries will still have individual requirements but in principle does freedom of movement apply to partners of EU citizens? Not having much luck with online searches.

[Stillstand]

I have a similar situation. My wife is Hungarian with settled status (not citizen) in the UK. We could live in , Hungary no problem, I have spousal visa free residency.

This only applies to Hungary for myself, so I wouldn't be able to simply live in neighbouring Austria or anywhere else in Schengen. I would have to apply for residency like anywhere. She on the other hand, can live and work anywhere within Schengen.

So for you, I would suggest to look into residency requirements for yourself for Italy and then whichever visa you wish to apply for in Italy - depending on your situation and what you want to do there.

[fourthpedal]

Batfoy said:

My wife is an EU citizen living with me here in the UK. She is Croatian (dual citizenship, UK/HR) and whilst I can legally move to Croatia with her and live quite happily with no restrictions, she's very keen to live in Italy.

What I'm not sure about is whether I can join her in Italy under the same principles (all things being equal) as if we were moving to Croatia. i.e legal partner of an EU/HR citizen therefore not subject to the rules and regs that would apply to someone without a family/spouse connection.

Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation? Very aware that EU countries will still have individual requirements but in principle does freedom of movement apply to partners of EU citizens? Not having much luck with online searches.

Generally you're not far off being treated as an EU citizen, although its clearest if your spouse is working: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/fa...

You won't quite have no restrictions - it seems that you'll need proof of employment or of sufficient means.

But it might be a little messy if you are currently living in the UK. You would technically need to be issued a Visa in advance of moving. But I'm not sure if you'll be able to apply for that until your spouse is resident in Italy first? This is something you'll need to clarify with the consulate.

[Batfoy]

Thanks chaps, much appreciated. If we settled in Croatia there would still be some admin to complete as non-EU but it's a lot easier as I'm married to a Croatian citizen, I can get around some of the barriers. I was rather hoping that her EU status would give me some leeway in other EU countries but I suspect not. I'll probably have to go through the normal process although if she's already resident in Italy it might - I hope - make things a little easier. The consular section of the Italian Embassy in the UK has very little info and eventually times out when you try and see what visas may be required.

[E63eeeeee...]

The basic principle is that you get the same access to Treaty Rights (to travel, live and work with no restrictions) as your EU national spouse, but only in the same country and at the same time as she's accessing her Rights (e.g. you couldn't decide to live and work in France while she's in Italy).

The rights are fundamental, so you shouldn't need to apply for anything up front. There will be arrangements for you to formalise and evidence your rights that are specific to Italy, so you'll need (it may or may not be officially mandatory but is almost certainly a good idea) to register with the authorities on whatever their scheme for people in your situation is - this might be with the local authorities or with some kind of national system, obviously check this all out and clarify exactly what you need before you go including things like medical insurance and proofs of your relationship.

[E63eeeeee...]

You don't need a visa, so if you go looking for information about visas for people in your situation you won't find what you need.

Last point, for people comparing it to living with your EU spouse in their country of origin, that's not the same thing. Treaty Rights don't apply in that situation, and you're governed by the individual country's rules on non-citizen spouses. Before Brexit the UK had stricter rules for non-EU people married to Brits than for non-EU people married to EU nationals because of this.

[E63eeeeee...]

Have a look at https://conslondra.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-... turns out it actually does seem to be called a visa, or at least auto translate to that.

[fourthpedal]

E63eeeeee... said:

You don't need a visa, so if you go looking for information about visas for people in your situation you won't find what you need.

Last point, for people comparing it to living with your EU spouse in their country of origin, that's not the same thing. Treaty Rights don't apply in that situation, and you're governed by the individual country's rules on non-citizen spouses. Before Brexit the UK had stricter rules for non-EU people married to Brits than for non-EU people married to EU nationals because of this.

Nope - you do need a Visa. Check yourself at https://vistoperitalia.esteri.it/home/en#BMQuestio...

Short-term Visa-free entry is not the same as never needing a Visa. They might not enforce it, but you're chancing it.

EDIT:

And yet more explicit confirmation:

> EU family members joining their spouse in Italy for stays over 90 days need to apply for a National Visa submitting the documents listed above plus a declaration by their spouse confirming their intent to permanently move to Italy.

https://conslondra.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-...

But on the positive side, it might be enough for the EU spouse to declare an intent to move without having to move first.

Edited by fourthpedal on Sunday 18th May 18:41

[E63eeeeee...]

fourthpedal said:

E63eeeeee... said:

You don't need a visa, so if you go looking for information about visas for people in your situation you won't find what you need.

Last point, for people comparing it to living with your EU spouse in their country of origin, that's not the same thing. Treaty Rights don't apply in that situation, and you're governed by the individual country's rules on non-citizen spouses. Before Brexit the UK had stricter rules for non-EU people married to Brits than for non-EU people married to EU nationals because of this.

Nope - you do need a Visa. Check yourself at https://vistoperitalia.esteri.it/home/en#BMQuestio...

Short-term Visa-free entry is not the same as never needing a Visa. They might not enforce it, but you're chancing it.

EDIT:

And yet more explicit confirmation:

> EU family members joining their spouse in Italy for stays over 90 days need to apply for a National Visa submitting the documents listed above plus a declaration by their spouse confirming their intent to permanently move to Italy.

https://conslondra.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-...

But on the positive side, it might be enough for the EU spouse to declare an intent to move without having to move first.

Edited by fourthpedal on Sunday 18th May 18:41

Yeah, I corrected that in my next post. To be fair the EU Family Member page says if you're joining a family member, not moving with them, and going through the "do you need a visa" guide ended up telling me to talk to the Embassy, and technically according to the treaty they wouldn't be able to turn you away if you just rocked up with your spouse, but who knows what would actually happen, so I'd probably not rely on unclear auto-translated online guidance and say talk to the Embassy as suggested.

[Batfoy]

Thanks again, interesting stuff. I was hoping for the same access to Treaty Rights but it doesn't look as if I will be because as you have both mentioned, I need to talk to the consulate as she is a non-Italian EU citizen.



The links were hugely helpful, I was struggling to find a working one so thanks again. During my searches I could have sworn I saw something about a minimum amount of income to move set at €32,000 but can't find it now. It's not an issue but would be handy to know. One of the supporting docs required is a marriage certificate not older than six months but that doesn't sound right. More searching required.

I've dropped an email to the visa section, not anticipating a swift reply but hopefully they can give me the info needed.

Edited by Batfoy on Sunday 18th May 19:08

[Batfoy]

fourthpedal said:

Nope - you do need a Visa. Check yourself at https://vistoperitalia.esteri.it/home/en#BMQuestio...

Short-term Visa-free entry is not the same as never needing a Visa. They might not enforce it, but you're chancing it.

EDIT:

And yet more explicit confirmation:

> EU family members joining their spouse in Italy for stays over 90 days need to apply for a National Visa submitting the documents listed above plus a declaration by their spouse confirming their intent to permanently move to Italy.

https://conslondra.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-...

But on the positive side, it might be enough for the EU spouse to declare an intent to move without having to move first.

Just looking at that last link, it will also take you to a doc and it's a little ambiguous so I'm hoping that will give us some flexibility. At first look, it seems that my wife would need to move first and me joining her in X time but it might be the case that we can move together without her moving first as you say. Hmm.

[Mrr T]

As some one in that position at the moment it's worth pointing out
1. If your living in a EU country not the country of citizenship of your partner then EU law applies. So check the EU web site.
2. If your moving to the EU country your partner has citizenship then local law applies so check the local ministry web site.

While the rules are often similar the forms often vary.

However, some times the difference can be quite significant. Only realised this when assisting a question on our local FB page from a brit in a civil partnership.

[Pete102]

I have a little knowledge of this but not specific to Italy, rather Switzerland.

Under the free-movement and EU citizen status your wife can pretty much upsticks and move / work in any EU country with little hassle. Move, apply for a work permit, start work.

For yourself (certainly here in Switzerland atleast) you would need a spousal permit (family reunification) which is generally linked to your wife's status in the country. Issuing of a permit is generally tied to your wife being in gainful employment or being able to financially support herself and you.