Offer to treat?

[PugwasHDJ80]

Somewhat tongue in cheek, but I would love if the following was possible.....

We live in a rural village with no mains sewerage- our house is 200 years old and has always had some sort of septic tank/cess pit. There is no public drainage of any sort- not even storm drains (we live on a single-track gravel road)

12m ago, Thames Water (who would supply sewerage if we were on mains drains) sent us a bill for sewage and wastewater

I have been unable to convince them that they have never supplied drainage to use or anyone in our village- and i have wasted HOURS and HOURS of my life trying to resolve this. Think indian call centres, no call backs when promised, no reply to emails etc etc. I'm fed up!

They have recently sent me a "letter before action".

I would LOVE them to supply sewerage as it would be WAY WAY cheaper and more reliable (and it is technically feasible).

Legally is it possible to create a situation where they are contractually obligated to supply sewage services to us through their own intransiance on billing? ie could i pay the bill then take them to court for not supplying our contracted requirement?

[Trevor555]

I can't help with the answer.

But I just wanted to say wow.

They'll be taking you to court, I'd love to see that when the judge asks them to prove they've supplied that service to you.

Proves they think putting people under duress will make them pay, rather than actually checking facts properly.

Makes my pee boil.

[mmm-five]

Ask them to come out and fix a sewer blockage - and when they can't find the sewer you can point out that's what you've been trying to get them to understand all the time

[808 Estate]

A work colleague had similar. He went to court with photos of his tank and copies of all the bills for emptying the tank.
He asked for proof they had provided the service they were billing for, which they couldnt.

He counterclaimed for wasted time trying to get the bills cancelled and compensation for duress.
Was found in his favour and did quite ncely from it.

[Simpo Two]

^^^ Bingo. Let them sue; you defend and take your evidence.

Another loss for Thames Water who really don't seem to be able to manage their arse with both hands.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I think what the OP is asking is if he pays the bill, is this just an invitation to treat, an opening of a discussion about making a contract to get them to deal with the sewage, and they can still decline. Or if they accept the payment, have they created a contract and are then obligated to connect the OP to mains sewage, which will cost them millions but it's their tough luck?

Is that what you want to know OP?

[IanA2]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think what the OP is asking is if he pays the bill, is this just an invitation to treat, an opening of a discussion about making a contract to get them to deal with the sewage, and they can still decline. Or if they accept the payment, have they created a contract and are then obligated to connect the OP to mains sewage, which will cost them millions but it's their tough luck?

Is that what you want to know OP?

That was my understanding.

[PugwasHDJ80]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think what the OP is asking is if he pays the bill, is this just an invitation to treat, an opening of a discussion about making a contract to get them to deal with the sewage, and they can still decline. Or if they accept the payment, have they created a contract and are then obligated to connect the OP to mains sewage, which will cost them millions but it's their tough luck?

Is that what you want to know OP?

Yes exactly that,

Does it create a co tractual situation, where I can either enforce them to fulfill their side (is provide sewerage) or where I can sue them for the £120/month we currently.spend emptying our cess pit.....

[Simpo Two]

I quite like the idea that you send TW £100 and that means they'll spend millions laying a sewer to your house. Ain't gonna happen.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Simpo Two said:

I quite like the idea that you send TW £100 and that means they'll spend millions laying a sewer to your house. Ain't gonna happen.

If they enter into a contract to do so, then it probably is. I doubt that the OP paying and TW accepting payment creates a contract going forward but a better legal mind than mine needs to answer that question.

[Matt W]

I doubt that your suggested approach would work. Take a look at Section 101a of the Water Industry Act 1991, which may provide a way forward for you.

[reggie747]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

Yes exactly that,

Does it create a co tractual situation, where I can either enforce them to fulfill their side (is provide sewerage) or where I can sue them for the £120/month we currently.spend emptying our cess pit.....

£ 120 per month on cess pit clearance ??
Is it a particularly small pit or are you particularly big sh!tters ??
That seems an awful lot...

[Olivera]

No.

[IanA2]

reggie747 said:

£ 120 per month on cess pit clearance ??
Is it a particularly small pit or are you particularly big sh!tters ??
That seems an awful lot...

Just had ours emptied £165. Biennially, so a bit cheaper.....

[PugwasHDJ80]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Simpo Two said:

I quite like the idea that you send TW £100 and that means they'll spend millions laying a sewer to your house. Ain't gonna happen.

If they enter into a contract to do so, then it probably is. I doubt that the OP paying and TW accepting payment creates a contract going forward but a better legal mind than mine needs to answer that question.

I'd love someone to actually install a maor sewage treatment system for the whole village, but I'm more asking the questions in order to try and put some pressure on them- they've wasted far too much of my time over the past year, and its not stopping. It would be nice to "turn the tables" so to speak- at the least force them to actually take action.

I quite like the symmetry of taking them to court for not providing service when their about to take me to court for not paying for the service that i have never received from them.....

[PugwasHDJ80]

reggie747 said:

PugwasHDJ80 said:

Yes exactly that,

Does it create a co tractual situation, where I can either enforce them to fulfill their side (is provide sewerage) or where I can sue them for the £120/month we currently.spend emptying our cess pit.....

£ 120 per month on cess pit clearance ??
Is it a particularly small pit or are you particularly big sh!tters ??
That seems an awful lot...

its actually a sceptic tank where the drainage field has failed, so we're having to use it as a cess pit.....

its one of the reasons why this topic is so annoying- we either have to spend £20k fixing it, or £160 every six weeks to empty the cess pit. (it fills so quickly because the previous owner plumbed the rainwater into the sceptic tank- which is what caused it to flood in the first place......)

[bobtail4x4]

the rainwater flushes the crap straight through the tank thats the main cause of drainage field failure,

divert it, and lay a new drainage field, a day with a digger, some pipe and gravel, about 1/4 or less,

[Dimebars]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

its actually a sceptic tank where the drainage field has failed, so we're having to use it as a cess pit.....

its one of the reasons why this topic is so annoying- we either have to spend £20k fixing it, or £160 every six weeks to empty the cess pit. (it fills so quickly because the previous owner plumbed the rainwater into the sceptic tank- which is what caused it to flood in the first place......)

Surely the solution here is;

1. TW take you to court
2. You defend with evidence
3. They lose
4. You offer to settle on them providing the services they believe they provide already OR £30k to repair the faulty drainage system and you agree to leave each other alone in future

[Freddie Fitch]

I'm a bit dubious about the sceptic tank.

[Riley Blue]

Simpo Two said:

I quite like the idea that you send TW £100 and that means they'll spend millions laying a sewer to your house. Ain't gonna happen.

Perhaps not now but when my parents married their first home was a rented cottage in Essex that had no electricity supply. A deal was done with the area electricity board to run a cable through the woods to the property, a distance of almost a mile.

Total bill was a £1.00 connection charge. My Dad, an electrical engineer, did the rest.