Discussion
About a year ago, aged 63, I realised that things like lawnmowers had been getting heavier, so I plucked up the courage to see a PT at my local gym. He was a young chap, 25, but very personable and seemed to know his business inside-out so we started weekly one-hour sessions on a one-to-one basis. He oversaw every exercise very closely and gave encouragement when it got tough. After a few months the results were starting to show and the weights I could handle grew slowly but surely. Once you can do three sets of 12 reps the PT puts the weight up. By August this year, with his encouragement I was really trying hard and getting a few PBs every week.
Early in September I became aware of 'something' in my lower left abdomen. Didn't know what it was, some days there was nothing, some days I could feel 'something'. I saw a doctor and he diagnosed, to my surprise and alarm, a hernia. I thought back to the gym exercises and immediately thought of the leg press (where you lie on your back and push a weighted plate up with your legs). I'd been doing well at this and he'd recently increased the weight. The strain to push the weights up from an inverted squatting position had been immense but I managed to do most of 12x3. I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
I saw a consultant who confirmed that hernias only get worse not better, but they can be repaired with keyhole surgery and a general anaesthetic. s
t. I've never had an operation before so this is a bit terrifying. The NHS waiting list is 10-12 months and the private wait is 6-8 weeks so I pencilled in the latter in case it worsens. I'm waiting for the consultant's quote but expect it will be many thousands. It's incredibly frustrating that my attempt to get fitter has ended this way, especially as I hired a professional to oversee everything.
The question is - do I have a claim against the PT's insurance or is it just 'one of those things'? I may be many thousands out of pocket and will have scars and a mesh inside me for ever. Thanks for your consideration.
Early in September I became aware of 'something' in my lower left abdomen. Didn't know what it was, some days there was nothing, some days I could feel 'something'. I saw a doctor and he diagnosed, to my surprise and alarm, a hernia. I thought back to the gym exercises and immediately thought of the leg press (where you lie on your back and push a weighted plate up with your legs). I'd been doing well at this and he'd recently increased the weight. The strain to push the weights up from an inverted squatting position had been immense but I managed to do most of 12x3. I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
I saw a consultant who confirmed that hernias only get worse not better, but they can be repaired with keyhole surgery and a general anaesthetic. s
t. I've never had an operation before so this is a bit terrifying. The NHS waiting list is 10-12 months and the private wait is 6-8 weeks so I pencilled in the latter in case it worsens. I'm waiting for the consultant's quote but expect it will be many thousands. It's incredibly frustrating that my attempt to get fitter has ended this way, especially as I hired a professional to oversee everything.The question is - do I have a claim against the PT's insurance or is it just 'one of those things'? I may be many thousands out of pocket and will have scars and a mesh inside me for ever. Thanks for your consideration.
spangle82 said:
About a year ago, aged 63, I realised that things like lawnmowers had been getting heavier, so I plucked up the courage to see a PT at my local gym. He was a young chap, 25, but very personable and seemed to know his business inside-out so we started weekly one-hour sessions on a one-to-one basis. He oversaw every exercise very closely and gave encouragement when it got tough. After a few months the results were starting to show and the weights I could handle grew slowly but surely. Once you can do three sets of 12 reps the PT puts the weight up. By August this year, with his encouragement I was really trying hard and getting a few PBs every week.
Early in September I became aware of 'something' in my lower left abdomen. Didn't know what it was, some days there was nothing, some days I could feel 'something'. I saw a doctor and he diagnosed, to my surprise and alarm, a hernia. I thought back to the gym exercises and immediately thought of the leg press (where you lie on your back and push a weighted plate up with your legs). I'd been doing well at this and he'd recently increased the weight. The strain to push the weights up from an inverted squatting position had been immense but I managed to do most of 12x3. I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
I saw a consultant who confirmed that hernias only get worse not better, but they can be repaired with keyhole surgery and a general anaesthetic. st. I've never had an operation before so this is a bit terrifying. The NHS waiting list is 10-12 months and the private wait is 6-8 weeks so I pencilled in the latter in case it worsens. I'm waiting for the consultant's quote but expect it will be many thousands. It's incredibly frustrating that my attempt to get fitter has ended this way, especially as I hired a professional to oversee everything.
The question is - do I have a claim against the PT's insurance or is it just 'one of those things'? I may be many thousands out of pocket and will have scars and a mesh inside me for ever. Thanks for your consideration.
I would have expected that your issue is exactly what the PT's insurance is for. Perhaps check with him.Early in September I became aware of 'something' in my lower left abdomen. Didn't know what it was, some days there was nothing, some days I could feel 'something'. I saw a doctor and he diagnosed, to my surprise and alarm, a hernia. I thought back to the gym exercises and immediately thought of the leg press (where you lie on your back and push a weighted plate up with your legs). I'd been doing well at this and he'd recently increased the weight. The strain to push the weights up from an inverted squatting position had been immense but I managed to do most of 12x3. I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
I saw a consultant who confirmed that hernias only get worse not better, but they can be repaired with keyhole surgery and a general anaesthetic. s
t. I've never had an operation before so this is a bit terrifying. The NHS waiting list is 10-12 months and the private wait is 6-8 weeks so I pencilled in the latter in case it worsens. I'm waiting for the consultant's quote but expect it will be many thousands. It's incredibly frustrating that my attempt to get fitter has ended this way, especially as I hired a professional to oversee everything.The question is - do I have a claim against the PT's insurance or is it just 'one of those things'? I may be many thousands out of pocket and will have scars and a mesh inside me for ever. Thanks for your consideration.
Hello OP
Hats off to you OP on getting going with getting fitter and stronger.
I sustained a hernia (an inguinal one) doing some hard exercise (the finishing sprint of the Knaresborough Bed Race). Like you I went private. £3k and two weeks off work when I was self employed. Ouch. It was also my first ever operation. But it was all ok. My accountant had warned me to expect brief chest pain (gases left over from the keyhole surgery can accumulate at the top of your chest). I took easy for 10 days after the op.
The key point, I then fully recovered, can do everything and don’t think about it. So you don’t need to worry that you won’t be able to do as much in the future.
I’d say the major benefits of being more active, fitter and stronger in your 60s would greatly outweigh the temporary blip of a hernia. Up to you if you want to make a claim, but I’d suggest that would mean being stuck mentally on the negative, rather than cracking on with the positive.
Hats off to you OP on getting going with getting fitter and stronger.
I sustained a hernia (an inguinal one) doing some hard exercise (the finishing sprint of the Knaresborough Bed Race). Like you I went private. £3k and two weeks off work when I was self employed. Ouch. It was also my first ever operation. But it was all ok. My accountant had warned me to expect brief chest pain (gases left over from the keyhole surgery can accumulate at the top of your chest). I took easy for 10 days after the op.
The key point, I then fully recovered, can do everything and don’t think about it. So you don’t need to worry that you won’t be able to do as much in the future.
I’d say the major benefits of being more active, fitter and stronger in your 60s would greatly outweigh the temporary blip of a hernia. Up to you if you want to make a claim, but I’d suggest that would mean being stuck mentally on the negative, rather than cracking on with the positive.
You’d have to prove causation. You are vanishingly unlikely to be able to prove in court that an exercise you performed under supervision was definitively the cause of that.
I’ve lifted weights regularly for 40 years. I had keyhole on a hernia a few years ago. It’s 💯 fine now and I was active the literal day after the op.
Im sure it was caused when I was asked to spot someone on the flat bench. They had what looked to me,
to be far too much weight on the bar. Sure enough, I gave a lift off and the bar came down like a guillotine. I had to lift it off them, that awkward angle you are at behind a flat bench with no spot platform. I felt something tweak in my groin and I’m sure that’s when I did it.
But I’d never know for sure. And nor will you. The insurer for the PT will never accept that either. So I’d move on.
I’ve lifted weights regularly for 40 years. I had keyhole on a hernia a few years ago. It’s 💯 fine now and I was active the literal day after the op.
Im sure it was caused when I was asked to spot someone on the flat bench. They had what looked to me,
to be far too much weight on the bar. Sure enough, I gave a lift off and the bar came down like a guillotine. I had to lift it off them, that awkward angle you are at behind a flat bench with no spot platform. I felt something tweak in my groin and I’m sure that’s when I did it.
But I’d never know for sure. And nor will you. The insurer for the PT will never accept that either. So I’d move on.
At the end of the day it’s only you who can say what’s too much when training. If it was to heavy/difficult or unusually uncomfortable then you stop and tell the PT that.
Unfortunately your not a young pup anymore and our bodies can’t take the same beating and bounce back like they used to so need to be much more careful when pushing yourself.
Also any PT that just prescribes the 3 sets of 12 for everything seems like a not much experience PT and has probably only done the basic PT course to get their certificate.
Unfortunately your not a young pup anymore and our bodies can’t take the same beating and bounce back like they used to so need to be much more careful when pushing yourself.
Also any PT that just prescribes the 3 sets of 12 for everything seems like a not much experience PT and has probably only done the basic PT course to get their certificate.
spangle82 said:
About a year ago, aged 63, I realised that things like lawnmowers had been getting heavier, so I plucked up the courage to see a PT at my local gym. He was a young chap, 25, but very personable and seemed to know his business inside-out so we started weekly one-hour sessions on a one-to-one basis. He oversaw every exercise very closely and gave encouragement when it got tough. After a few months the results were starting to show and the weights I could handle grew slowly but surely. Once you can do three sets of 12 reps the PT puts the weight up. By August this year, with his encouragement I was really trying hard and getting a few PBs every week.
Early in September I became aware of 'something' in my lower left abdomen. Didn't know what it was, some days there was nothing, some days I could feel 'something'. I saw a doctor and he diagnosed, to my surprise and alarm, a hernia. I thought back to the gym exercises and immediately thought of the leg press (where you lie on your back and push a weighted plate up with your legs). I'd been doing well at this and he'd recently increased the weight. The strain to push the weights up from an inverted squatting position had been immense but I managed to do most of 12x3. I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
I saw a consultant who confirmed that hernias only get worse not better, but they can be repaired with keyhole surgery and a general anaesthetic. st. I've never had an operation before so this is a bit terrifying. The NHS waiting list is 10-12 months and the private wait is 6-8 weeks so I pencilled in the latter in case it worsens. I'm waiting for the consultant's quote but expect it will be many thousands. It's incredibly frustrating that my attempt to get fitter has ended this way, especially as I hired a professional to oversee everything.
The question is - do I have a claim against the PT's insurance or is it just 'one of those things'? I may be many thousands out of pocket and will have scars and a mesh inside me for ever. Thanks for your consideration.
I am going to run with "just one of those things".Early in September I became aware of 'something' in my lower left abdomen. Didn't know what it was, some days there was nothing, some days I could feel 'something'. I saw a doctor and he diagnosed, to my surprise and alarm, a hernia. I thought back to the gym exercises and immediately thought of the leg press (where you lie on your back and push a weighted plate up with your legs). I'd been doing well at this and he'd recently increased the weight. The strain to push the weights up from an inverted squatting position had been immense but I managed to do most of 12x3. I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
I saw a consultant who confirmed that hernias only get worse not better, but they can be repaired with keyhole surgery and a general anaesthetic. s
t. I've never had an operation before so this is a bit terrifying. The NHS waiting list is 10-12 months and the private wait is 6-8 weeks so I pencilled in the latter in case it worsens. I'm waiting for the consultant's quote but expect it will be many thousands. It's incredibly frustrating that my attempt to get fitter has ended this way, especially as I hired a professional to oversee everything.The question is - do I have a claim against the PT's insurance or is it just 'one of those things'? I may be many thousands out of pocket and will have scars and a mesh inside me for ever. Thanks for your consideration.
I've had two inguinal hernias. When I saw the surgeon for the first I said, "ah, I've been at it too hard in the gym".
"That's a myth," he responded, "it's a design fault that men have, it would have happened anyway. You've got a 60% chance of the other side going too."
Ten years almost to the day I was diagnosed with the other side having gone.
So I am saying he knew what he was talking about and you have no hope of a successful claim, even if you can demonstrate that there was any connection at all between the PT session and the emergence of your hernia.
My Wife broke a metatarsal during a Crossfit gym session, she drove home and I took her to A&E, she had a few weeks off and then went back to the gym. A few years later she had a shoulder injury (torn rotator cuff) which required surgery, again she had some time off, then returned to the gym.
She knew and accepted the risk when she signed up for it and at no point did she consider taking any action/chase any compensation.
She's since finished with Crossfit and switched to powerlifting.
As an aside, at the age of 60 she recently won a local powerlifting competition, many of the other competitors were 40 years younger than, and significantly heavier than her.
She knew and accepted the risk when she signed up for it and at no point did she consider taking any action/chase any compensation.
She's since finished with Crossfit and switched to powerlifting.
As an aside, at the age of 60 she recently won a local powerlifting competition, many of the other competitors were 40 years younger than, and significantly heavier than her.
GasEngineer said:
Countdown said:
Apologies if I ve missed something but has anyone suggested that that particular exercise was responsible for causing the hernia?
OP did:spangle82 said:
I'm convinced this was what caused the hernia because nothing else put that much pressure on the lower abdomen.
What the OP describes is a common exercise. If it was something highly likely to cause the injury described I would have expected the PT to be aware of it or the Doctor to at least raise the possibility that it might have caused it.
To put it another way how would the PT know that that particular exercise is going to cause injury to the OP if it's not a common thing?
Thanks everyone for many useful and constructive replies, it is appreciated. I'll try to address each one as accurately as possible.
When the hernia was first suspected I told him and we stopped doing the leg press and other exercises that would stress the lower body. We continued for about three weeks just with upper body exercises, and also instead of 'pushing to failure' he switched to 'stop before failure' - ie maybe one less rep than you could do if you were really pushing. I think though that a couple of the exercises were still transmitting some strain to the lower body and the hernia now seems more present that it was, so the only thing is to stop completely. Which is a great shame after a year of good progress at £35 a week but there you go.
£3K isn't too bad but at £640 just for an ultrasound I thought we'd be over five figures, especially with GA.
3 sets of 12 was an end goal; at the start he had to guess a likely weight and see how I got on. Very often it was less than 3x12 and he would also add or remove a weight on the day according to progress. I thought he was very vigilant and he's a nice bloke. I just wish I hadn't done the leg press with the extra weight; I would pay good money to wind the clock back two months.
GasEngineer said:
I would have expected that your issue is exactly what the PT's insurance is for. Perhaps check with him.
Thanks. I've e-mailed him with the news and that I'm having to cancel sessions for the foreseeable future. But he's not very good with e-mail so I'll have to call in on Monday and update him.Countdown said:
Apologies if I ve missed something but has anyone suggested that that particular exercise was responsible for causing the hernia?
Only I know what I've been doing physically - apart from gym for one hour a week I potter around the house or go for a walk, and they don't seem very likely candidates.Inbox said:
Difficult one but what do the T&C's say? Is the advice from the PT taken at your own risk? Did you tell the PT you thought there was something wrong when you first felt there was an issue or carry on until it got worse?
I don't think there are any T&Cs; we just agreed to start sessions and I pay him monthly. He's self-employed but 'embedded' with the local gym which he has an arrangement with. I think he's a great guy, he's been able to answer every fitness question I've thrown at him and he knows more about bodies and fitness than I do so I've always followed his advice implicitly.When the hernia was first suspected I told him and we stopped doing the leg press and other exercises that would stress the lower body. We continued for about three weeks just with upper body exercises, and also instead of 'pushing to failure' he switched to 'stop before failure' - ie maybe one less rep than you could do if you were really pushing. I think though that a couple of the exercises were still transmitting some strain to the lower body and the hernia now seems more present that it was, so the only thing is to stop completely. Which is a great shame after a year of good progress at £35 a week but there you go.
Tom4398cc said:
Hello OP
Hats off to you OP on getting going with getting fitter and stronger.
I sustained a hernia (an inguinal one) doing some hard exercise (the finishing sprint of the Knaresborough Bed Race). Like you I went private. £3k and two weeks off work when I was self employed. Ouch. It was also my first ever operation. But it was all ok. My accountant had warned me to expect brief chest pain (gases left over from the keyhole surgery can accumulate at the top of your chest). I took easy for 10 days after the op.
The key point, I then fully recovered, can do everything and don t think about it. So you don t need to worry that you won t be able to do as much in the future.
I d say the major benefits of being more active, fitter and stronger in your 60s would greatly outweigh the temporary blip of a hernia. Up to you if you want to make a claim, but I d suggest that would mean being stuck mentally on the negative, rather than cracking on with the positive.
Thanks for the encouraging words Hats off to you OP on getting going with getting fitter and stronger.
I sustained a hernia (an inguinal one) doing some hard exercise (the finishing sprint of the Knaresborough Bed Race). Like you I went private. £3k and two weeks off work when I was self employed. Ouch. It was also my first ever operation. But it was all ok. My accountant had warned me to expect brief chest pain (gases left over from the keyhole surgery can accumulate at the top of your chest). I took easy for 10 days after the op.
The key point, I then fully recovered, can do everything and don t think about it. So you don t need to worry that you won t be able to do as much in the future.
I d say the major benefits of being more active, fitter and stronger in your 60s would greatly outweigh the temporary blip of a hernia. Up to you if you want to make a claim, but I d suggest that would mean being stuck mentally on the negative, rather than cracking on with the positive.
£3K isn't too bad but at £640 just for an ultrasound I thought we'd be over five figures, especially with GA.highway said:
You d have to prove causation. You are vanishingly unlikely to be able to prove in court that an exercise you performed under supervision was definitively the cause of that.
I ve lifted weights regularly for 40 years. I had keyhole on a hernia a few years ago. It s ? fine now and I was active the literal day after the op.
Im sure it was caused when I was asked to spot someone on the flat bench. They had what looked to me,
to be far too much weight on the bar. Sure enough, I gave a lift off and the bar came down like a guillotine. I had to lift it off them, that awkward angle you are at behind a flat bench with no spot platform. I felt something tweak in my groin and I m sure that s when I did it.
But I d never know for sure. And nor will you. The insurer for the PT will never accept that either. So I d move on.
It's impossible to prove; I didn't suddenly collapse in pain. But I know that nothing else I've done came anywhere near it; it's a 'beyond reasonable doubt' thing. The consultant said recovery took 4-6 weeks.I ve lifted weights regularly for 40 years. I had keyhole on a hernia a few years ago. It s ? fine now and I was active the literal day after the op.
Im sure it was caused when I was asked to spot someone on the flat bench. They had what looked to me,
to be far too much weight on the bar. Sure enough, I gave a lift off and the bar came down like a guillotine. I had to lift it off them, that awkward angle you are at behind a flat bench with no spot platform. I felt something tweak in my groin and I m sure that s when I did it.
But I d never know for sure. And nor will you. The insurer for the PT will never accept that either. So I d move on.
Glenn63 said:
At the end of the day it s only you who can say what s too much when training. If it was to heavy/difficult or unusually uncomfortable then you stop and tell the PT that.
Unfortunately your not a young pup anymore and our bodies can t take the same beating and bounce back like they used to so need to be much more careful when pushing yourself.
Also any PT that just prescribes the 3 sets of 12 for everything seems like a not much experience PT and has probably only done the basic PT course to get their certificate.
Well, a couple of points. First, he said that it's the last rep, the one you can only just do, that does the muscle 'damage' that makes you stronger. So I was encouraged to push as hard as possible. Heavy, difficult and uncomfortable are baked in because if you stopped when things got difficult - why are you going to gym?! And that's the only fault I can find with a PT I consider very good - at 25 he's seemingly unaware that 64 year-olds need to go easier.Unfortunately your not a young pup anymore and our bodies can t take the same beating and bounce back like they used to so need to be much more careful when pushing yourself.
Also any PT that just prescribes the 3 sets of 12 for everything seems like a not much experience PT and has probably only done the basic PT course to get their certificate.
3 sets of 12 was an end goal; at the start he had to guess a likely weight and see how I got on. Very often it was less than 3x12 and he would also add or remove a weight on the day according to progress. I thought he was very vigilant and he's a nice bloke. I just wish I hadn't done the leg press with the extra weight; I would pay good money to wind the clock back two months.
I'd say its just one of those things, a three sets of twelve is pretty reasonable and safe, and he's not been encouraging you to work to a higher load with fewer reps or go for single-rep maximums.
This is provided you are otherwise good on technique and so on, even using machines, you have to be aware of how you're loading yourself up and stabilising your position etc.
This is provided you are otherwise good on technique and so on, even using machines, you have to be aware of how you're loading yourself up and stabilising your position etc.
Honest to fk.....does everybody just look to blame somebody for everything in order to get a few bucks with a claim?
I'm pretty sure at all stages the PT asked if the exercises and weights were manageable and your response was 'yes'.
Get the op, heal, carry on keeping fit; otherwise get the op and go back to growing old gracefully.
Dwelling on if the PT is responsible is a waste of time and mental health well being.
k.....does everybody just look to blame somebody for everything in order to get a few bucks with a claim?I'm pretty sure at all stages the PT asked if the exercises and weights were manageable and your response was 'yes'.
Get the op, heal, carry on keeping fit; otherwise get the op and go back to growing old gracefully.
Dwelling on if the PT is responsible is a waste of time and mental health well being.
Furbo said:
I am going to run with "just one of those things".
I've had two inguinal hernias. When I saw the surgeon for the first I said, "ah, I've been at it too hard in the gym".
"That's a myth," he responded, "it's a design fault that men have, it would have happened anyway. You've got a 60% chance of the other side going too."
Ten years almost to the day I was diagnosed with the other side having gone.
So I am saying he knew what he was talking about and you have no hope of a successful claim, even if you can demonstrate that there was any connection at all between the PT session and the emergence of your hernia.
Correct about the 'design fault'. It's where a testical descends through the muscle wall. Always a risk for men if that area is overloaded with exercise, lifting, or repeated heavy coughing.I've had two inguinal hernias. When I saw the surgeon for the first I said, "ah, I've been at it too hard in the gym".
"That's a myth," he responded, "it's a design fault that men have, it would have happened anyway. You've got a 60% chance of the other side going too."
Ten years almost to the day I was diagnosed with the other side having gone.
So I am saying he knew what he was talking about and you have no hope of a successful claim, even if you can demonstrate that there was any connection at all between the PT session and the emergence of your hernia.
Wheelspinning said:
Honest to fk.....does everybody just look to blame somebody for everything in order to get a few bucks with a claim?
I'm pretty sure at all stages the PT asked if the exercises and weights were manageable and your response was 'yes'.
Get the op, heal, carry on keeping fit; otherwise get the op and go back to growing old gracefully.
Dwelling on if the PT is responsible is a waste of time and mental health well being.
It's thanks to the "Where there's blame there's a claim" culture imported from the US. k.....does everybody just look to blame somebody for everything in order to get a few bucks with a claim?I'm pretty sure at all stages the PT asked if the exercises and weights were manageable and your response was 'yes'.
Get the op, heal, carry on keeping fit; otherwise get the op and go back to growing old gracefully.
Dwelling on if the PT is responsible is a waste of time and mental health well being.
Edited by NikBartlett on Sunday 26th October 14:55
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