Renting and S.21 notice
Discussion
Hi folks
Looking for some advice/personal/practical experience on dealing with a likely S.21 notice to end my tenancy after the initial 12 month period. I'm aware of the new legislation just finalised through the parliamentary process, but not yet given dates for when it enters into force. It is likely I will receive the notice at 10 months in, so will meet the requirements for giving 2 months' notice. I don't anticipate S.21 notice being issued in mid-November will suddenly become invalid after they announce what date the new powers kick in from, but you never know.....
Short history:
Moved to a rental due to ongoing divorce, with a 12 month tenancy. Intention to buy a home of my own once the family home has sold, but that hasn't happened yet, while every potential house buyer waits to see what goodies are offered in the November budget. It was SSTC in February but then the w
ker who was supposed to buy it threw in a £27k lower offer in August whilst we were dealing with final questions through solicitors before exchanging contracts.
Rental I moved in to was lived in by the landlord prior to my taking it on. He moved out at the last minute and there were quite a few issues with the house which the lettings agents were fairly useless at dealing with. I had to get the local authority involved to deal with damp caused by broken gutters, black mould, faulty electrics, broken appliances etc. The agent is giving me early warning of the landlord's intentions.
My son attends school nearby and has his GCSEs this academic year. He will then move from secondary school to sixth form college, most likely some distance from where we're currently living. Moving to another rental (even if one becomes available that fits our needs) will be expensive, time consuming and stressful, at a time when we could really do without any of it.
I'm living with cancer, but I work full time. I'm not sure if that gives me any protection in this scenario?
What can I do?
In an ideal world I'd like to negotiate to stay here till the end of the academic year. It saves disruption to my son's education and reduces stress on me. I'm due to have radiotherapy on tumours in my left lung this year, and possibly another operation to take a 4th chunk of my left lung, or remove the whole left lung.
I'm aware the landlord can only begin court proceedings for a possession order after my tenancy has actually expired in mid-January. I'd rather not end up having to foot his legal bills if he's successful via that route.
I suspect the landlord wants possession so he can reduce his overheads - what I've heard suggests he's extremely highly geared debt-wise and based on what the neighbours have said he lives a champagne lifestyle on beer money (think new Range Rover on the drive, expensive clothes and shoes, works in 'online marketing' and appears not to have a proper job, serial buyer of properties on owner occupier mortgages, before renting them out). I suspect he either needs to dispose of a property to release some capital to fund his lifestyle, or has overstretched himself with the next purchase and can't sustain it.
Based on the above, does anyone know what factors a court consider relevant when or if I try to challenge a possession claim? Also how long do these things tend to drag on for? I'm wondering whether challenging it even if unlikely to be successful might buy me the 6 months I need to stay put, and what the typical costs involved might be? I will struggle to get the money together to fund another deposit when I won't get the money back from this place till after I've left. I'm £40k down in legal fees for the divorce and have borrowed money from my dad to fund that. He doesn't have a lot left.....
Current plan
Current thinking is to respond when I get the notice setting out my ask to stay until the summer, at which point I will happily walk away (I have my eye on a house which suits, so IF the family home sells I have somewhere to go). That short term extension to the tenancy might be his cheapest option to deal with this. If he refuses that and I have to wait for court papers to land, what then?
I've got my details out with other letting agents locally, but there is literally nothing on the market at the moment that is similar. They're all saying it'll be December before stuff comes up with January move dates. The impact of the new rules is also a bit of an unknown for landlords and tenants - will it suddenly result in a lot of market activity, or will people just stick with what they have now? I have my whole life here from my old family home so moving is not a small exercise. The thought of boxing it all up yet again, potentially to a rental I might only need for a few months, is pretty stressful. My 15 year old son is reasonably happy here and I really don't want to cause him more stress while he's prepping for his exams....
Real world experience, legal or landlord/tenant knowledge, suggestions all welcome
Looking for some advice/personal/practical experience on dealing with a likely S.21 notice to end my tenancy after the initial 12 month period. I'm aware of the new legislation just finalised through the parliamentary process, but not yet given dates for when it enters into force. It is likely I will receive the notice at 10 months in, so will meet the requirements for giving 2 months' notice. I don't anticipate S.21 notice being issued in mid-November will suddenly become invalid after they announce what date the new powers kick in from, but you never know.....
Short history:
Moved to a rental due to ongoing divorce, with a 12 month tenancy. Intention to buy a home of my own once the family home has sold, but that hasn't happened yet, while every potential house buyer waits to see what goodies are offered in the November budget. It was SSTC in February but then the w
ker who was supposed to buy it threw in a £27k lower offer in August whilst we were dealing with final questions through solicitors before exchanging contracts.Rental I moved in to was lived in by the landlord prior to my taking it on. He moved out at the last minute and there were quite a few issues with the house which the lettings agents were fairly useless at dealing with. I had to get the local authority involved to deal with damp caused by broken gutters, black mould, faulty electrics, broken appliances etc. The agent is giving me early warning of the landlord's intentions.
My son attends school nearby and has his GCSEs this academic year. He will then move from secondary school to sixth form college, most likely some distance from where we're currently living. Moving to another rental (even if one becomes available that fits our needs) will be expensive, time consuming and stressful, at a time when we could really do without any of it.
I'm living with cancer, but I work full time. I'm not sure if that gives me any protection in this scenario?
What can I do?
In an ideal world I'd like to negotiate to stay here till the end of the academic year. It saves disruption to my son's education and reduces stress on me. I'm due to have radiotherapy on tumours in my left lung this year, and possibly another operation to take a 4th chunk of my left lung, or remove the whole left lung.
I'm aware the landlord can only begin court proceedings for a possession order after my tenancy has actually expired in mid-January. I'd rather not end up having to foot his legal bills if he's successful via that route.
I suspect the landlord wants possession so he can reduce his overheads - what I've heard suggests he's extremely highly geared debt-wise and based on what the neighbours have said he lives a champagne lifestyle on beer money (think new Range Rover on the drive, expensive clothes and shoes, works in 'online marketing' and appears not to have a proper job, serial buyer of properties on owner occupier mortgages, before renting them out). I suspect he either needs to dispose of a property to release some capital to fund his lifestyle, or has overstretched himself with the next purchase and can't sustain it.
Based on the above, does anyone know what factors a court consider relevant when or if I try to challenge a possession claim? Also how long do these things tend to drag on for? I'm wondering whether challenging it even if unlikely to be successful might buy me the 6 months I need to stay put, and what the typical costs involved might be? I will struggle to get the money together to fund another deposit when I won't get the money back from this place till after I've left. I'm £40k down in legal fees for the divorce and have borrowed money from my dad to fund that. He doesn't have a lot left.....
Current plan
Current thinking is to respond when I get the notice setting out my ask to stay until the summer, at which point I will happily walk away (I have my eye on a house which suits, so IF the family home sells I have somewhere to go). That short term extension to the tenancy might be his cheapest option to deal with this. If he refuses that and I have to wait for court papers to land, what then?
I've got my details out with other letting agents locally, but there is literally nothing on the market at the moment that is similar. They're all saying it'll be December before stuff comes up with January move dates. The impact of the new rules is also a bit of an unknown for landlords and tenants - will it suddenly result in a lot of market activity, or will people just stick with what they have now? I have my whole life here from my old family home so moving is not a small exercise. The thought of boxing it all up yet again, potentially to a rental I might only need for a few months, is pretty stressful. My 15 year old son is reasonably happy here and I really don't want to cause him more stress while he's prepping for his exams....
Real world experience, legal or landlord/tenant knowledge, suggestions all welcome
Thanks both - some internet sleuthing leads me to believe the current address for the landlord is itself a rental (expensive inside M25 apartment) with a rent of not far off double what I'm paying. It is on the rental market as available to move in to around the time my tenancy is due to end......I don't believe he owns it, as it's not changed hands in a long time. If he's given notice, or decided it's no longer affordable, I'm not sure it changes the situation for me, but potentially might make him more desperate to get me out.
Landlord here
When the Section 21 arrives, you need to check if it is valid. Shelter have a checklist on their website. If it is valid, nothing you have written in your statement will stop the eviction. I believe, but you would be best checking, the Landlord has to wait 6 months after council enforcement involvement to issue a S21 otherwise you could argue it’s a revenge eviction.
If the Section 21 is not valid and he wants his property back he will just issue Section 8, to sell or move back in. The Judge then has more discretion, and you could potentially argue your case and offer a move out date that is suitable to you outline the reasons. I have no idea on the possibility of that being successful.
Realistically anything but leaving as per the Landlords notice is going to be pretty stressful but is obviously preferable to leaving when told to and then being homeless.
Some things to consider:
Having a decent Landlord reference is very desirable in the current landscape if you’re negotiating, I would try and agree what is written in it.
It’s highly likely you are going to get a rent increase as soon as the fixed term is up. It is worth checking what the current “market” rent so you know what to expect.
If it was me, I would try and negotiate your preferred leave date with an agreed reference that will be provided. Your only negotiating tool I can see is agreeing to leave without the need for court in the future and/or offering a higher rent in the interim with a no further increases clause until the date you have agreed to leave.
It's a tough spot to be in, I feel for you.
When the Section 21 arrives, you need to check if it is valid. Shelter have a checklist on their website. If it is valid, nothing you have written in your statement will stop the eviction. I believe, but you would be best checking, the Landlord has to wait 6 months after council enforcement involvement to issue a S21 otherwise you could argue it’s a revenge eviction.
If the Section 21 is not valid and he wants his property back he will just issue Section 8, to sell or move back in. The Judge then has more discretion, and you could potentially argue your case and offer a move out date that is suitable to you outline the reasons. I have no idea on the possibility of that being successful.
Realistically anything but leaving as per the Landlords notice is going to be pretty stressful but is obviously preferable to leaving when told to and then being homeless.
Some things to consider:
Having a decent Landlord reference is very desirable in the current landscape if you’re negotiating, I would try and agree what is written in it.
It’s highly likely you are going to get a rent increase as soon as the fixed term is up. It is worth checking what the current “market” rent so you know what to expect.
If it was me, I would try and negotiate your preferred leave date with an agreed reference that will be provided. Your only negotiating tool I can see is agreeing to leave without the need for court in the future and/or offering a higher rent in the interim with a no further increases clause until the date you have agreed to leave.
It's a tough spot to be in, I feel for you.
Thanks - that's really useful input. I'm due to speak to the letting agent tomorrow, so may enquire as to the possibility of negotiating something. I've been open with him to date on what I would like, but I'm not sure if they're equally as keen to get rid of the landlord as he is to get me out!
I guess one question to ask the letting agent is how long it's taking after issuing a valid S.21, the end of the lease rolling over 2 months later, and the granting of a possession order actually happening. I'm assuming that's quite region specific. It might buy me a couple of months at least.
I do still own a house, so potentially I can get around the risk of a negative landlord reference (or just get one from the agent).
Biggest problem round here is that next to nothing is coming on the market to rent......I may also try and negotiate that if something comes up earlier than the end of my tenancy that they'll release me from the tenancy early at no cost. I don't really fancy trying to move immediately after Christmas again....
I guess one question to ask the letting agent is how long it's taking after issuing a valid S.21, the end of the lease rolling over 2 months later, and the granting of a possession order actually happening. I'm assuming that's quite region specific. It might buy me a couple of months at least.
I do still own a house, so potentially I can get around the risk of a negative landlord reference (or just get one from the agent).
Biggest problem round here is that next to nothing is coming on the market to rent......I may also try and negotiate that if something comes up earlier than the end of my tenancy that they'll release me from the tenancy early at no cost. I don't really fancy trying to move immediately after Christmas again....
Buy2Let PJ said:
Landlord here
When the Section 21 arrives, you need to check if it is valid. Shelter have a checklist on their website. If it is valid, nothing you have written in your statement will stop the eviction. I believe, but you would be best checking, the Landlord has to wait 6 months after council enforcement involvement to issue a S21 otherwise you could argue it s a revenge eviction.
If the Section 21 is not valid and he wants his property back he will just issue Section 8, to sell or move back in. The Judge then has more discretion, and you could potentially argue your case and offer a move out date that is suitable to you outline the reasons. I have no idea on the possibility of that being successful.
Realistically anything but leaving as per the Landlords notice is going to be pretty stressful but is obviously preferable to leaving when told to and then being homeless.
Some things to consider:
Having a decent Landlord reference is very desirable in the current landscape if you re negotiating, I would try and agree what is written in it.
It s highly likely you are going to get a rent increase as soon as the fixed term is up. It is worth checking what the current market rent so you know what to expect.
If it was me, I would try and negotiate your preferred leave date with an agreed reference that will be provided. Your only negotiating tool I can see is agreeing to leave without the need for court in the future and/or offering a higher rent in the interim with a no further increases clause until the date you have agreed to leave.
It's a tough spot to be in, I feel for you.
Landlord here, I have only ever had one set of tenants and they have been there for 8 years, it's been a mothly rolling agreement for the last seven years (big mistake on my part and not being advised properly by the letting agent who are usless). What with rising interest rates and the recent renters rights bill I just feel it isn't worth the effort anymore.When the Section 21 arrives, you need to check if it is valid. Shelter have a checklist on their website. If it is valid, nothing you have written in your statement will stop the eviction. I believe, but you would be best checking, the Landlord has to wait 6 months after council enforcement involvement to issue a S21 otherwise you could argue it s a revenge eviction.
If the Section 21 is not valid and he wants his property back he will just issue Section 8, to sell or move back in. The Judge then has more discretion, and you could potentially argue your case and offer a move out date that is suitable to you outline the reasons. I have no idea on the possibility of that being successful.
Realistically anything but leaving as per the Landlords notice is going to be pretty stressful but is obviously preferable to leaving when told to and then being homeless.
Some things to consider:
Having a decent Landlord reference is very desirable in the current landscape if you re negotiating, I would try and agree what is written in it.
It s highly likely you are going to get a rent increase as soon as the fixed term is up. It is worth checking what the current market rent so you know what to expect.
If it was me, I would try and negotiate your preferred leave date with an agreed reference that will be provided. Your only negotiating tool I can see is agreeing to leave without the need for court in the future and/or offering a higher rent in the interim with a no further increases clause until the date you have agreed to leave.
It's a tough spot to be in, I feel for you.
I am looking into section 21 and the advice above agrees with everything I have read. For a section 21 to be valid, the following has to be correct.
1)The tenant has to have been given a valid gas safety certificate
2)The tenant has to have been given an energy performance certificate
3)The tenant has to have been given a copy of the GOV.UK How to Rent booklet
I believe that a gas safe certificate has to have been in place before the tenant moved in.
Everyone will tell you not to move out and to take it to court, what they don't tell you is that if you lose you will have to pay court costs.
I suspect there will be a lot of Section 21s issued in the next couple of months as landlords want to get out before the new renters rights bill comes in where it will be practically impossible to get your property back. Yes I know the rules state that you can get it back after four months if you are selling it or moving back in, but the courts will not be prepared and the backlog will be years.
Thanks for all the above - the property is managed through an agent, and to my surprise they have issued the S.21 to me today. I've had a few e-mails in the last week or 2 with copies of the relevant packs of certificates, so they all look to be in order.
My 12 month tenancy states the agreement was 'made' on 17/1/2025. The S.21 Form 6A is dated today (so 2 weeks before the 2 months notice period) and requires me to leave 'after Friday 16 January 2026'. Is that OK, in that they've basically issued it before there's 2 months left on the 12 month tenancy? I assume it is, and they're basically giving me some extra notice......
My 12 month tenancy states the agreement was 'made' on 17/1/2025. The S.21 Form 6A is dated today (so 2 weeks before the 2 months notice period) and requires me to leave 'after Friday 16 January 2026'. Is that OK, in that they've basically issued it before there's 2 months left on the 12 month tenancy? I assume it is, and they're basically giving me some extra notice......
Adrian E said:
Thanks for all the above - the property is managed through an agent, and to my surprise they have issued the S.21 to me today. I've had a few e-mails in the last week or 2 with copies of the relevant packs of certificates, so they all look to be in order.
My 12 month tenancy states the agreement was 'made' on 17/1/2025. The S.21 Form 6A is dated today (so 2 weeks before the 2 months notice period) and requires me to leave 'after Friday 16 January 2026'. Is that OK, in that they've basically issued it before there's 2 months left on the 12 month tenancy? I assume it is, and they're basically giving me some extra notice......
The internet seems to suggest its valid, but as someone who has evicted a tenant, the court system is unpredictable at the best of times. My 12 month tenancy states the agreement was 'made' on 17/1/2025. The S.21 Form 6A is dated today (so 2 weeks before the 2 months notice period) and requires me to leave 'after Friday 16 January 2026'. Is that OK, in that they've basically issued it before there's 2 months left on the 12 month tenancy? I assume it is, and they're basically giving me some extra notice......
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Buy2Let PJ said:
Landlord here
When the Section 21 arrives, you need to check if it is valid. Shelter have a checklist on their website. If it is valid, nothing you have written in your statement will stop the eviction. I believe, but you would be best checking, the Landlord has to wait 6 months after council enforcement involvement to issue a S21 otherwise you could argue it s a revenge eviction.
If the Section 21 is not valid and he wants his property back he will just issue Section 8, to sell or move back in. The Judge then has more discretion, and you could potentially argue your case and offer a move out date that is suitable to you outline the reasons. I have no idea on the possibility of that being successful.
Realistically anything but leaving as per the Landlords notice is going to be pretty stressful but is obviously preferable to leaving when told to and then being homeless.
Some things to consider:
Having a decent Landlord reference is very desirable in the current landscape if you re negotiating, I would try and agree what is written in it.
It s highly likely you are going to get a rent increase as soon as the fixed term is up. It is worth checking what the current market rent so you know what to expect.
If it was me, I would try and negotiate your preferred leave date with an agreed reference that will be provided. Your only negotiating tool I can see is agreeing to leave without the need for court in the future and/or offering a higher rent in the interim with a no further increases clause until the date you have agreed to leave.
It's a tough spot to be in, I feel for you.
Landlord here, I have only ever had one set of tenants and they have been there for 8 years, it's been a mothly rolling agreement for the last seven years (big mistake on my part and not being advised properly by the letting agent who are usless). What with rising interest rates and the recent renters rights bill I just feel it isn't worth the effort anymore.When the Section 21 arrives, you need to check if it is valid. Shelter have a checklist on their website. If it is valid, nothing you have written in your statement will stop the eviction. I believe, but you would be best checking, the Landlord has to wait 6 months after council enforcement involvement to issue a S21 otherwise you could argue it s a revenge eviction.
If the Section 21 is not valid and he wants his property back he will just issue Section 8, to sell or move back in. The Judge then has more discretion, and you could potentially argue your case and offer a move out date that is suitable to you outline the reasons. I have no idea on the possibility of that being successful.
Realistically anything but leaving as per the Landlords notice is going to be pretty stressful but is obviously preferable to leaving when told to and then being homeless.
Some things to consider:
Having a decent Landlord reference is very desirable in the current landscape if you re negotiating, I would try and agree what is written in it.
It s highly likely you are going to get a rent increase as soon as the fixed term is up. It is worth checking what the current market rent so you know what to expect.
If it was me, I would try and negotiate your preferred leave date with an agreed reference that will be provided. Your only negotiating tool I can see is agreeing to leave without the need for court in the future and/or offering a higher rent in the interim with a no further increases clause until the date you have agreed to leave.
It's a tough spot to be in, I feel for you.
I am looking into section 21 and the advice above agrees with everything I have read. For a section 21 to be valid, the following has to be correct.
1)The tenant has to have been given a valid gas safety certificate
2)The tenant has to have been given an energy performance certificate
3)The tenant has to have been given a copy of the GOV.UK How to Rent booklet
I believe that a gas safe certificate has to have been in place before the tenant moved in.
Everyone will tell you not to move out and to take it to court, what they don't tell you is that if you lose you will have to pay court costs.
I suspect there will be a lot of Section 21s issued in the next couple of months as landlords want to get out before the new renters rights bill comes in where it will be practically impossible to get your property back. Yes I know the rules state that you can get it back after four months if you are selling it or moving back in, but the courts will not be prepared and the backlog will be years.
If you are going to go down the eviction route, hire a specialist. Not the people your agent say and not a local solicitor a real eviction specialist. It's difficult path for a lay person going it alone.
GiantEnemyCrab said:
Do as I said above. Reddit housinguk
Thanks, yes, have had a look already. I'm not a frequenter or Reddit usually but did manage to find a lot of useful pointers for S21 validity checks etc.Amazingly a suitable property has come on the market today, only a few minutes from where I live. Problem will be if I can't (a) get the rent down a bit (b) get my landlord to agree to my surrendering the tenancy early (c) stay well enough to move house.
I'm hoping that the threat of me staying beyond the end of the tenancy, because I can't get this place and nothing else comes up, which leaves him stuck without a property to move in to, might prompt some movement. I suspect he will want his cake and eat it, however.
GiantEnemyCrab said:
Do as I said above. Reddit housinguk
I'm not saying you are, or Reddit is, but the internet is full of angry, bitter and militant tenants who like nothing more than to advise everyone to hang on, delay it for as long as possible, go through the court process for no other reason than to stick it to "greedy landlords". Anyone advising pretty much anything else is shouted down by the angry mob. I would just be mindful that the information is good but don't be pushed into a course of action by another persons agenda.Buy2Let PJ said:
GiantEnemyCrab said:
Do as I said above. Reddit housinguk
I'm not saying you are, or Reddit is, but the internet is full of angry, bitter and militant tenants who like nothing more than to advise everyone to hang on, delay it for as long as possible, go through the court process for no other reason than to stick it to "greedy landlords". Anyone advising pretty much anything else is shouted down by the angry mob. I would just be mindful that the information is good but don't be pushed into a course of action by another persons agenda.
Might buy the OP an extra bit of time to sort himself out though.
Edited by GiantEnemyCrab on Monday 3rd November 16:46
Buy2Let PJ said:
Why don't you raise the rent with a section 13 notice. Your tenants obviously aren't going to thank you but if you evict them they will end up paying the going rate for a new place anyway.
If you are going to go down the eviction route, hire a specialist. Not the people your agent say and not a local solicitor a real eviction specialist. It's difficult path for a lay person going it alone.
Because I will be able to use the money to pay off my residential mortgage and invest the rest. I will then be able to double my salary sacrifice pension payments as I no longer have a mortgage to pay, which I receive 40% extra for.If you are going to go down the eviction route, hire a specialist. Not the people your agent say and not a local solicitor a real eviction specialist. It's difficult path for a lay person going it alone.
Basically I think I will be a whole lot better off without the hassle.
Adrian E said:
GiantEnemyCrab said:
Do as I said above. Reddit housinguk
Thanks, yes, have had a look already. I'm not a frequenter or Reddit usually but did manage to find a lot of useful pointers for S21 validity checks etc.Amazingly a suitable property has come on the market today, only a few minutes from where I live. Problem will be if I can't (a) get the rent down a bit (b) get my landlord to agree to my surrendering the tenancy early (c) stay well enough to move house.
I'm hoping that the threat of me staying beyond the end of the tenancy, because I can't get this place and nothing else comes up, which leaves him stuck without a property to move in to, might prompt some movement. I suspect he will want his cake and eat it, however.
Adrian E said:
Thanks, yes, have had a look already. I'm not a frequenter or Reddit usually but did manage to find a lot of useful pointers for S21 validity checks etc.
Amazingly a suitable property has come on the market today, only a few minutes from where I live. Problem will be if I can't (a) get the rent down a bit (b) get my landlord to agree to my surrendering the tenancy early (c) stay well enough to move house.
I'm hoping that the threat of me staying beyond the end of the tenancy, because I can't get this place and nothing else comes up, which leaves him stuck without a property to move in to, might prompt some movement. I suspect he will want his cake and eat it, however.
Amazingly a suitable property has come on the market today, only a few minutes from where I live. Problem will be if I can't (a) get the rent down a bit (b) get my landlord to agree to my surrendering the tenancy early (c) stay well enough to move house.
I'm hoping that the threat of me staying beyond the end of the tenancy, because I can't get this place and nothing else comes up, which leaves him stuck without a property to move in to, might prompt some movement. I suspect he will want his cake and eat it, however.
Cancer gives you protection from discrimination due to your cancer ( I only know this as my ex wife has a Tennant claiming this at present !).
However my wife's issue and I suspect yours have nothing to do with the cancer. Ie you are not being evicted because of the cancer but for other reasons.
However my wife's issue and I suspect yours have nothing to do with the cancer. Ie you are not being evicted because of the cancer but for other reasons.
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