Forced entry to a house / common assault?
Discussion
Hypothetically speaking, if three blokes manhandled a woman from her car and forced their way into her house, physically prevented her from calling the cops and left with a kitten what crime has been committed? (no damage to property, no obvious lasting/visible injuries to the woman, intent from the beginning was to take said kitten)
What options for prosecution/redress would be available? (skip the 'deck him' option, don't want to get into tit-for-tat stuff)
Cheers
What options for prosecution/redress would be available? (skip the 'deck him' option, don't want to get into tit-for-tat stuff)
Cheers
aldi said:
Hypothetically speaking, if three blokes manhandled a woman from her car and forced their way into her house, physically prevented her from calling the cops and left with a kitten what crime has been committed? (no damage to property, no obvious lasting/visible injuries to the woman, intent from the beginning was to take said kitten)
What options for prosecution/redress would be available? (skip the 'deck him' option, don't want to get into tit-for-tat stuff)
Cheers
Cat burglers hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Vipers said:
Cat burglers hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Humour me.... (there is a story behind the kitten but don't want to get into all that right now... maybe in the morning after some sleep...)
Edit: Screw it, the story is they gave the kitten away then decided they wanted it back, wouldnt take no for an answer. Not complicated really.
>> Edited by aldi on Sunday 9th October 00:28
Hollywood Wheels said:
Aggravated Burglary has to be a good bet....
Charge refused HW -no evidence they had firearm, imitation firearm,weapon of offence or explosive....
All three acting in concert and common purpose then all commit the offences:
Assault - either common and/or actual bodily harm (stress is an injury)
Burglary - they enter a dwelling as trespassers and steal.
Theft - of the moggy. Depending how they treated it maybe cruelty to an animal?
Some evidence above that they unlawfully and intentionally restrained the freedon of movement of a person so common law false imprisonment.
(Section 3 Sexual Offences Act 2003 replaced the old Indecent Assault. Touching any part of the body of female in a sexual manner (where's your pussy asked when grabbed???) is an offence (TIC).
Recourse to prosecution? - report to Plodshop and depending on background they come up with and CPS will determine if it goes to Court 'cept the SOA bit above.
dvd
Yep common assault is what we were told, but were told we'd have to persue that privatley as it's a civil matter.
TBH I'm a bit confused about the theft aspect, they didnt want to go for it cause the kitten thing was too much of a grey area where they gave it away then wanted it back etc, It was explained that without an intent to commit theft or cause damage there's no burglary. They could arrest him but he'd just get let go again apparently.
Fale imprisonment wasnt mentioned at the time, I realise people don't like to second-guess or contradict their colleagues but is it worth going to the station and getting a second oppinion about it all??
Ps: 'tisn't me directly, me and the man of the house were 50 yards round the corner working on his car under a friends carport at the time. We found out where they lived and went there straight away but the bloke wouldnt come out, sent his girlfriend out to talk to us and it all went a bit Trisha. Meanwhile he sent his kids into the window, stroking the kitten... so you can understand we're pretty eager for some recompence!
>> Edited by aldi on Sunday 9th October 10:05
TBH I'm a bit confused about the theft aspect, they didnt want to go for it cause the kitten thing was too much of a grey area where they gave it away then wanted it back etc, It was explained that without an intent to commit theft or cause damage there's no burglary. They could arrest him but he'd just get let go again apparently.
Fale imprisonment wasnt mentioned at the time, I realise people don't like to second-guess or contradict their colleagues but is it worth going to the station and getting a second oppinion about it all??
Ps: 'tisn't me directly, me and the man of the house were 50 yards round the corner working on his car under a friends carport at the time. We found out where they lived and went there straight away but the bloke wouldnt come out, sent his girlfriend out to talk to us and it all went a bit Trisha. Meanwhile he sent his kids into the window, stroking the kitten... so you can understand we're pretty eager for some recompence!
>> Edited by aldi on Sunday 9th October 10:05
I think you will find that the kitten is not such a grey area. IIRC a cat is not property (but a dog is). Therefore DWD is wrong with his burglary charge (trespass yes, theft no).
I would have thought that a breach of the peace under the 1361 Act would take care of this, specifically the conduct prior to entering the house.
>> Edited by kenp on Sunday 9th October 10:04
I would have thought that a breach of the peace under the 1361 Act would take care of this, specifically the conduct prior to entering the house.
>> Edited by kenp on Sunday 9th October 10:04
Beg to differ Kenp.
Pets and animals that are tamed or ordinary kept in captivity are ALWAYS PROPERTY for the purposes of the Theft Act.
Breach of the Peace would have been fine at the time but its all over now so doubtful CPS would wear a summons for a bind over. Now in the realms of Public Order - using towards another person threatening behaviour etc..
However, more information has come to hand above than originally reported that there is some dispute on the ownership of said moggie which could lay claim to a claim of right so no theft and no intention on entering said dwelling to steal merely to reclaim own property so no burglary. Further assault seems not to have attracted any 47, 18 injury so as stated common - complainant to take own action. Private prosecution through Mags Clerk.
Only advice now is to consider having a free session with CAB Solicitor who on being acquainted with ALL the facts can make a more judgemental decsion that we can.
dvd
Pets and animals that are tamed or ordinary kept in captivity are ALWAYS PROPERTY for the purposes of the Theft Act.
Breach of the Peace would have been fine at the time but its all over now so doubtful CPS would wear a summons for a bind over. Now in the realms of Public Order - using towards another person threatening behaviour etc..
However, more information has come to hand above than originally reported that there is some dispute on the ownership of said moggie which could lay claim to a claim of right so no theft and no intention on entering said dwelling to steal merely to reclaim own property so no burglary. Further assault seems not to have attracted any 47, 18 injury so as stated common - complainant to take own action. Private prosecution through Mags Clerk.
Only advice now is to consider having a free session with CAB Solicitor who on being acquainted with ALL the facts can make a more judgemental decsion that we can.
dvd
Thanks for the advice, will pass it on. The main concern was the cost of persuing it privatley might be exessive but will pass on the advice re: CAB solicitor. Sorry I didnt make it clear enough that they thought the cat was theirs, I didnt realise it had that much significance.
It just seems so outrageous, we were so angry - I know I was, can't imagine how he feels. They turn up unanounced on the doorstep at 9am, asking for the kitten back, get told no (they've had it for a bit now, its settled, they love it etc.), then return with the heavy mob when the woman is alone and take it by force! I just feel like they have to understand that they just can't do that.
Will persuade my friend to persue the private legal route.
Thanks again.
It just seems so outrageous, we were so angry - I know I was, can't imagine how he feels. They turn up unanounced on the doorstep at 9am, asking for the kitten back, get told no (they've had it for a bit now, its settled, they love it etc.), then return with the heavy mob when the woman is alone and take it by force! I just feel like they have to understand that they just can't do that.
Will persuade my friend to persue the private legal route.
Thanks again.
Tell me about it!!!
Thats whats so strange, its just completely disproportionate!
Say you give someone a kitten you don't want... a few weeks later you think 'hmm... I fancy that kitten back now I've had more time to think about it'. You're not sure about being cheeky and asking for it back but what's the worst that could happen.. they say no right? So you ask, they say no. Now do you make a mental note not to give something away that you might want back again, or do you get a gang together, commit assault on a stranger and search their house for it while she screams for help? Hmm, choices choices...
Thats whats so strange, its just completely disproportionate!
Say you give someone a kitten you don't want... a few weeks later you think 'hmm... I fancy that kitten back now I've had more time to think about it'. You're not sure about being cheeky and asking for it back but what's the worst that could happen.. they say no right? So you ask, they say no. Now do you make a mental note not to give something away that you might want back again, or do you get a gang together, commit assault on a stranger and search their house for it while she screams for help? Hmm, choices choices...
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