What IS "PARKING"!? [i.e. the Legal Definition]
Discussion
A recent PCN got me thinking - what IS parking?
When does a car's state change from being driven, to being legally parked? It sounds simple but there are a considerable number of potential states transitioned through during the parking process, and I've been unable to ascertain exactly what the law deems as 'parked'.
There are at least the following states of parking (in a privately owned carpark):
1. Time of entering the carpark
2. Time spent finding and maneuvering into the space
3. Time the vehicle actually stops in the parking space
4. Time the paid parking session commences
5. Time spent unloading dogs, bags, kids and gubbins (not my wife's actual name)
6. Time the vehicle is locked
7. Time the vehicle is technically unattended (out of view?)
8. Time the parking session ends
9. Time spent reloading
10. Time the vehicle begins to move out of the spot
11. Time spent navigating to the exit
12. Time the vehicle actually exits the carpark
There is a fairly well accepted 10 minute grace period after your session expires, designed to cover off most of this ambiguity. But that still doesn't answer the question of when a car is technically 'parked'.
I'm genuinely interested, what's the legal (and PH) definitions of when a car becomes parked..!?
When does a car's state change from being driven, to being legally parked? It sounds simple but there are a considerable number of potential states transitioned through during the parking process, and I've been unable to ascertain exactly what the law deems as 'parked'.
There are at least the following states of parking (in a privately owned carpark):
1. Time of entering the carpark
2. Time spent finding and maneuvering into the space
3. Time the vehicle actually stops in the parking space
4. Time the paid parking session commences
5. Time spent unloading dogs, bags, kids and gubbins (not my wife's actual name)
6. Time the vehicle is locked
7. Time the vehicle is technically unattended (out of view?)
8. Time the parking session ends
9. Time spent reloading
10. Time the vehicle begins to move out of the spot
11. Time spent navigating to the exit
12. Time the vehicle actually exits the carpark
There is a fairly well accepted 10 minute grace period after your session expires, designed to cover off most of this ambiguity. But that still doesn't answer the question of when a car is technically 'parked'.
I'm genuinely interested, what's the legal (and PH) definitions of when a car becomes parked..!?
There is no general statutory definition of “parked” applicable across England. The term is applied in context, with consistent principles: if a vehicle is stationary other than due to traffic conditions, and not within a recognised exemption under the applicable TRO/signage, it will ordinarily be treated as “parked” for enforcement purposes—even if occupied and even for a short period. TROs and enforcement regimes distinguish parking from activities such as picking up or setting down passengers, or genuine loading or unloading, with an expectation of continuous activity and proximity to the vehicle.
1 and 2, and 10, 11 & 12 in the list above are clearly not 'parking' by any normal use of that term.
1 and 2, and 10, 11 & 12 in the list above are clearly not 'parking' by any normal use of that term.
There are some car parks, St Michaels Mount in Marazion for example, where users are told to buy enough time for the time you actually entered to the time you leave. So if you enter at 11.45am on a busy summers day, drive around a few times for a space, get a 4 hour ticket at 12pm and leave at 4pm, you haven't paid for your stay and will get a PCN. Scam? Yessir!
To leave a vehicle in a carpark and then leave when said space is no longer required ?
Doesn't address how long it takes to leave said car when parking or indeed how long it takes to load the car up again prior to leaving and of course how long it takes to find said space in the first place !
Doesn't address how long it takes to leave said car when parking or indeed how long it takes to load the car up again prior to leaving and of course how long it takes to find said space in the first place !
K4sper said:
1 and 2, and 10, 11 & 12 in the list above are clearly not 'parking' by any normal use of that term.
Right but I parked at a station car park that was cheap rate after 11am. Having entered the car park, found a space, then walked back to the ticket machine imagine my surprise that I'd been clocked by the ANPR camera entering the car park at 10.59am, and would have to pay the "expensive" rate. Clearly I hadn't parked when I entered the car park. 
I would say the time parking starts is when you enter the car park.
For example, if it's a car park with a barrier, where you take a ticket to raise the barrier after pressing the ticket button, and you pressed the button at 10:59, but you did not find a space until 11:01, then so what? It's the time on the ticket that counts, not the time you spent driving round the car park.
For a second example, if it's a pay and display car park, with no cameras, it would be the time you paid at the machine, because there's no way of knowing what time you entered.
In your case, do you expect the cameras to follow you round the car park until your car comes to a rest in space, and then use that time as the time you parked?
For example, if it's a car park with a barrier, where you take a ticket to raise the barrier after pressing the ticket button, and you pressed the button at 10:59, but you did not find a space until 11:01, then so what? It's the time on the ticket that counts, not the time you spent driving round the car park.
For a second example, if it's a pay and display car park, with no cameras, it would be the time you paid at the machine, because there's no way of knowing what time you entered.
In your case, do you expect the cameras to follow you round the car park until your car comes to a rest in space, and then use that time as the time you parked?
carl_w said:
snuffy said:
In your case, do you expect the cameras to follow you round the car park until your car comes to a rest in space, and then use that time as the time you parked?
There are some car parks that have sensors in the parking bays (Westfield Stratford, as I recall)Terminator X said:
I've had an argument before when I've been sat in a car in a space waiting for someone. They said I was parked and I said no not parked, I'm waiting. Imho you'd need to be out of the car for "parked" to occur.
TX.
You can be in the vehicle and still parked. If someone goes to eg. a supermarket, and stops in a bay, one person goes and buys stuff and one person stays in the car, that would still be parked.TX.
Super Sonic said:
Terminator X said:
I've had an argument before when I've been sat in a car in a space waiting for someone. They said I was parked and I said no not parked, I'm waiting. Imho you'd need to be out of the car for "parked" to occur.
TX.
You can be in the vehicle and still parked. If someone goes to eg. a supermarket, and stops in a bay, one person goes and buys stuff and one person stays in the car, that would still be parked.TX.
TX.
Highway Code typically sees waiting and parking as very similar, although not necessarily the same. On the other hand although waiting on a pedestrian crossing isn't specifically mentioned I think you can guess the outcome. Separately, the word Stop or Stopping is sometimes used.
Rule 238
You MUST NOT wait or park on yellow lines during the times of operation shown on nearby time plates...
You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passengers, on school entrance markings...
Rule 191
You MUST NOT park on a pedestrian crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines.
Signs for Clearways and Red Routes are specifically "No Stopping".
Railway stations round my way have signs saying "No Loading" which are intended to prevent people dropping off or picking up passengers/luggage at the station. There are also bays which say "Loading Only".
Rule 238
You MUST NOT wait or park on yellow lines during the times of operation shown on nearby time plates...
You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passengers, on school entrance markings...
Rule 191
You MUST NOT park on a pedestrian crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines.
Signs for Clearways and Red Routes are specifically "No Stopping".
Railway stations round my way have signs saying "No Loading" which are intended to prevent people dropping off or picking up passengers/luggage at the station. There are also bays which say "Loading Only".
Terminator X said:
Super Sonic said:
Terminator X said:
I've had an argument before when I've been sat in a car in a space waiting for someone. They said I was parked and I said no not parked, I'm waiting. Imho you'd need to be out of the car for "parked" to occur.
TX.
You can be in the vehicle and still parked. If someone goes to eg. a supermarket, and stops in a bay, one person goes and buys stuff and one person stays in the car, that would still be parked.TX.
TX.
If being in the car means you're not parked, does this give you carte blanche to 'wait' in a disabled bay while your passenger goes in and gets the shopping?
Super Sonic said:
Terminator X said:
Super Sonic said:
Terminator X said:
I've had an argument before when I've been sat in a car in a space waiting for someone. They said I was parked and I said no not parked, I'm waiting. Imho you'd need to be out of the car for "parked" to occur.
TX.
You can be in the vehicle and still parked. If someone goes to eg. a supermarket, and stops in a bay, one person goes and buys stuff and one person stays in the car, that would still be parked.TX.
TX.
If being in the car means you're not parked, does this give you carte blanche to 'wait' in a disabled bay while your passenger goes in and gets the shopping?
If you're not moving you've "stopped". If you are able to move, but choose not to (possibly because you're not in the car...) then you're at least "waiting". If you're loading/unloading, you're loading/unloading (and definitely not parked), for up to 20 mins. Waiting is basically the same as parking but parking would suggest you've occupied a space if there are marked bays; if it were parallel parking on a street then it could be waiting not parking or parking (not waiting).
The difference between "waiting" and "parking" is you're waiting for something - for example, a space to become clear; to pick up someone; to make/complete a phone call.
The difference between "waiting" and "parking" is you're waiting for something - for example, a space to become clear; to pick up someone; to make/complete a phone call.
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