Dangerous Driving NIP
Discussion
This is a post I never thought I would have to write but looking for some thoughts - I will be taking proper legal advice.
My son is 18 and going through a tough time with mental health but he loves his cars - a real petrolhead.
Last Sunday he decided to attended a local static meet of cars. He had had a bad day and we asked him not to go because we did not think his head was in the right place.
He insisted on going so my wife said that he could go but only on condition that she joined him and that she shared the driving, declaring that she would stay well out of his way.
Meet took place and some decided to move 3-4 miles up the road, my son wanted to join them, wife was not keen but relented but on condition that she drove. She said the driving of others was scary. After re-convening at this second place loads of cars were going out and being driven really idiotically.
Deciding that enough was enough wife said that they were leaving and again, because cars were coming and going she had people driving badly all around her.
This morning my son received an NIP for Dangerous Driving - it was his car they were in but wife was driving.
Wife completely panic stricken, has no memory of seeing any police cars out or officers filming but son has said that others at the meet said that NPAS were out in a plane.
Long story short, wife is 54 years of age, not really in to street racing and driving stupidly but found herself in a group of cars that were being driven really badly.
To me it seems like sons car has been identified and simply lumped into a load of other cars (guilt by association) that are also being issued with NIP?
My son is 18 and going through a tough time with mental health but he loves his cars - a real petrolhead.
Last Sunday he decided to attended a local static meet of cars. He had had a bad day and we asked him not to go because we did not think his head was in the right place.
He insisted on going so my wife said that he could go but only on condition that she joined him and that she shared the driving, declaring that she would stay well out of his way.
Meet took place and some decided to move 3-4 miles up the road, my son wanted to join them, wife was not keen but relented but on condition that she drove. She said the driving of others was scary. After re-convening at this second place loads of cars were going out and being driven really idiotically.
Deciding that enough was enough wife said that they were leaving and again, because cars were coming and going she had people driving badly all around her.
This morning my son received an NIP for Dangerous Driving - it was his car they were in but wife was driving.
Wife completely panic stricken, has no memory of seeing any police cars out or officers filming but son has said that others at the meet said that NPAS were out in a plane.
Long story short, wife is 54 years of age, not really in to street racing and driving stupidly but found herself in a group of cars that were being driven really badly.
To me it seems like sons car has been identified and simply lumped into a load of other cars (guilt by association) that are also being issued with NIP?
Edited by Andy665 on Saturday 20th June 18:18
paul_c123 said:
Firstly, is your wife insured to drive the car?
Anyway, son fills in NIP with mum's details and moves on with life. Wife defends DD claim successfully. I doubt it would get to court - it sounds like a fishing expedition at this stage.
Yes, wife is insured as a named driver, main reason why she went with him and not myselfAnyway, son fills in NIP with mum's details and moves on with life. Wife defends DD claim successfully. I doubt it would get to court - it sounds like a fishing expedition at this stage.
Your son is going to have to return the NIP to fulfil his obligations and then a further NIP will be issued to your wife with her details on, she will have to complete the document and return it to confirm she was the driver at the time.
It is then a waiting game for further paperwork to come through though it may cause someone to review the details again when they get informed a 50 year old female was the driver of the car.
It may be as an aside that someone else present other than Police has been filming and has sent the recording to the Police through operation Snap.
I am guessing at this point but I suspect the chances are they have issued NIP's to all identifiable vehicles on whatever footage they have to fulfil their obligations of issuing NIP's within 14 days of the offence and any investigation is still ongoing
It is then a waiting game for further paperwork to come through though it may cause someone to review the details again when they get informed a 50 year old female was the driver of the car.
It may be as an aside that someone else present other than Police has been filming and has sent the recording to the Police through operation Snap.
I am guessing at this point but I suspect the chances are they have issued NIP's to all identifiable vehicles on whatever footage they have to fulfil their obligations of issuing NIP's within 14 days of the offence and any investigation is still ongoing
Worrying about nothing, its a blanket trawl of NIPs to gather details before they even decide what to do. NPAS alone won't be sufficient for prosecution, they would need ground asset and corroborative evidence to prosecute, and to get a prosecution for dangerous the threshold is seriously high.
This is all a non problem, just explain the above, case closed.
This is all a non problem, just explain the above, case closed.
Ubiquitous2024 said:
Worrying about nothing, its a blanket trawl of NIPs to gather details before they even decide what to do. NPAS alone won't be sufficient for prosecution, they would need ground asset and corroborative evidence to prosecute, and to get a prosecution for dangerous the threshold is seriously high.
This is all a non problem, just explain the above, case closed.
It makes my day when a decent man makes an intelligent , reasoned and accurate comment on here without rushing to judge others .This is all a non problem, just explain the above, case closed.
Well done mate .
_Rodders_ said:
Sounds like a pain but surely they're going to have to produce evidence at some point. Assuming there is none it'll go away at that point I would have thought.
They'll just make it up. Like they did to this guy (who won on his day at court): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHc_i9OSb4AStick Legs said:
I'm going to no doubt get some stick for this but...
Nice try getting some 'corroborating evidence' for your noble but misguided attempt to get your son off the hook for hooning about in his car.
Have you looked up the consequences of 'perverting the course of justice'?
Your nasty. The actions the OP took are totally in line with parents trying their best to support a son struggling with life.Nice try getting some 'corroborating evidence' for your noble but misguided attempt to get your son off the hook for hooning about in his car.
Have you looked up the consequences of 'perverting the course of justice'?
Stick Legs said:
I'm going to no doubt get some stick for this but...
Nice try getting some 'corroborating evidence' for your noble but misguided attempt to get your son off the hook for hooning about in his car.
Have you looked up the consequences of 'perverting the course of justice'?
Well, I expected at least one "knob" comment and you have delivered Nice try getting some 'corroborating evidence' for your noble but misguided attempt to get your son off the hook for hooning about in his car.
Have you looked up the consequences of 'perverting the course of justice'?
You are of course welcome to that point of view but it was going through my mind also.
As long as the is evidence in the video / images or whatever she was driving then of course all fine. However just bear in mind the police will think the same as many on here. 54 year old mums don't typically drive to car meets and then why would she take his car as opposed to her own ?
As long as the is evidence in the video / images or whatever she was driving then of course all fine. However just bear in mind the police will think the same as many on here. 54 year old mums don't typically drive to car meets and then why would she take his car as opposed to her own ?
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
You are of course welcome to that point of view but it was going through my mind also.
As long as the is evidence in the video / images or whatever she was driving then of course all fine. However just bear in mind the police will think the same as many on here. 54 year old mums don't typically drive to car meets and then why would she take his car as opposed to her own ?
Facts:As long as the is evidence in the video / images or whatever she was driving then of course all fine. However just bear in mind the police will think the same as many on here. 54 year old mums don't typically drive to car meets and then why would she take his car as opposed to her own ?
Our son attempted suicide a number of weeks ago, he is really struggling to get over the death of his best friend in a car accident 15 months ago - he loves his cars and had been looking forward to going to the meet.
He has a car that he is proud of, only an Ibiza Cupra but he takes great care of it and wanted to attend in his own car, which my wife is insured on as a named driver, I am not.
He had been struggling that day and we requested that he did not go to the meet but stayed at home instead. He had been really looking forward to attending and as we want to try and give him as many positives in life as possible at the moment we reflected and suggested that he could attend in his car but my wife would go with him. My wife is also a petrolhead so not really an issue for her.
My wife, on reflection said that she made a mistake when the meet moved to other locations, she should have removed herself and my son from a situation where drivers could get carried away.
I hope none of you ever have to try and balance the fragile mental health of an 18 year old with what, under normal circumstances, would be considered a good / bad idea.
Edited by Andy665 on Saturday 20th June 17:24
There isn t an option on here to give you a like . So I hope this will do instead.
Mental illness is a hidden, corrosive thing that affects many, many more of us that will be prepared to admit it.
If more people had the understanding and gave the support that it looks like you and your wife do, the world would be a considerably better place.
Mental illness is a hidden, corrosive thing that affects many, many more of us that will be prepared to admit it.
If more people had the understanding and gave the support that it looks like you and your wife do, the world would be a considerably better place.
But still remember OP that as your wife wasn't driving dangerously, there can't be any evidence that she was.
For any suspicion plod have that your wife was not driving, there is no proof that your son was driving.
A very unhappy event to have to deal with especially with your son's current mental health, but stay calm and deal with any steps that come along with legal advice as needed.
Ping Agtlaw and see if it's the kind of thing he deals with.
For any suspicion plod have that your wife was not driving, there is no proof that your son was driving.
A very unhappy event to have to deal with especially with your son's current mental health, but stay calm and deal with any steps that come along with legal advice as needed.
Ping Agtlaw and see if it's the kind of thing he deals with.
Oceanrower said:
There isn t an option on here to give you a like . So I hope this will do instead.
Mental illness is a hidden, corrosive thing that affects many, many more of us that will be prepared to admit it.
If more people had the understanding and gave the support that it looks like you and your wife do, the world would be a considerably better place.
Thank you. Its hell on earth at the moment. Every time our son leaves the house we do not know if we will ever see him alive again. We are trying desperately to provide a balance, giving him things to focus on, be positive about.Mental illness is a hidden, corrosive thing that affects many, many more of us that will be prepared to admit it.
If more people had the understanding and gave the support that it looks like you and your wife do, the world would be a considerably better place.
Its taking a serious toll on myself, my wife decided to let him go with her in attendance purely to give me a break. He did some of the driving, she said that there were no concerns, since he lost his best friend in a car accident he tends to be pretty sensible behind the wheel, he has seen the consequences. She also did some of the driving and the moment she realised that the comings and goings of other people, especially whilst driving between the "stop" points was getting a little concerning she removed them from the environment.
Receiving this NIP today has obviously put him in to a tailspin. The driving my wife did would have been 100% responsible, I cannot see any of the driving my son did being "dangerous" with his mum in the car and can only assume the police have issued a blanket NIP to all cars in attendance.
BertBert said:
But still remember OP that as your wife wasn't driving dangerously, there can't be any evidence that she was.
For any suspicion plod have that your wife was not driving, there is no proof that your son was driving.
A very unhappy event to have to deal with especially with your son's current mental health, but stay calm and deal with any steps that come along with legal advice as needed.
Ping Agtlaw and see if it's the kind of thing he deals with.
I would love to believe that it would be as simple as that but do not have much faith in the police. My son had a very troubled girlfriend, brought up in care, ADHD, vile temper etc. After she assaulted him in the house they had just taken a rental agreement out on he went to the police and reported it. She stated that the reverse was true. There was zero evidence but he was still issued with a formal caution whilst his allegation was completely ignored, apparently "women do not assault men". I wanted him to turn down the caution and take it to CPS for a charging decision. He just wanted it over and done with and took the caution, moved out of the property but still has to pay his half of the rent until the agreement has finished..For any suspicion plod have that your wife was not driving, there is no proof that your son was driving.
A very unhappy event to have to deal with especially with your son's current mental health, but stay calm and deal with any steps that come along with legal advice as needed.
Ping Agtlaw and see if it's the kind of thing he deals with.
Formal complaint made to the police which has been "lost"
Edited by Andy665 on Saturday 20th June 17:57
Ubiquitous2024 said:
Stick Legs said:
Your nasty. The actions the OP took are totally in line with parents trying their best to support a son struggling with life.Andy665 said:
Well, I expected at least one "knob" comment and you have delivered
You have elaborated further on the details, which you have my sympathy for, genuinely.My comment is what my first impression was, and for that I won't apologise.
The Police have form for 'fishing expeditions' like this and it is a pity if that is the case on this occasion due to the stress caused, however if what you say is true then will be no corroborating evidence, and therefore no need for concern. They cannot prosecute on a whim, and you have a right to ignore a FPN and attend court.
If the Police have no evidence you will not end up before a magistrate.
OP I'm really sorry to hear about your son's problems. It just goes to show that the risks of young people driving, and having accidents (in this case leading to your son's friend getting killed), doesn't just affect those individuals but can have a much wider impact. I hope your son is OK.
I'm a little concerned that in your first post the implication was that your wife did ALL the driving however in your last post it appears that your son also drove, or am I missing something? If the latter is true then you will need to ascertain exactly who was driving at the time of the NIP.
I'm a little concerned that in your first post the implication was that your wife did ALL the driving however in your last post it appears that your son also drove, or am I missing something? If the latter is true then you will need to ascertain exactly who was driving at the time of the NIP.
Edited by Enut on Saturday 20th June 18:17
Enut said:
OP I'm really sorry to hear about your son's problems. It just goes to show that the risks of young people driving, and having accidents (in this case leading to your son's friend getting killed), doesn't just affect those individuals but can have a much wider impact. I hope your son is OK.
I'm a little concerned that in your first post the implication was that your wife did ALL the driving however in your last post it appears that your son also drove, or am I missing something? If the latter is true then you will need to ascertain exactly who was driving at the time of the NIP.
Have dug deeper and transpires that my wife allowed him to drive there and between two of the "stop" points", I would think that having mother in the car with you would ensure at least half reasonable driving and wife said that she had no concerns about his driving but did about the antics of some of the other vehicles that would have been around at the same time.I'm a little concerned that in your first post the implication was that your wife did ALL the driving however in your last post it appears that your son also drove, or am I missing something? If the latter is true then you will need to ascertain exactly who was driving at the time of the NIP.
Edited by Enut on Saturday 20th June 18:17
Its clear that we need legal advice and that neither my wife or my son can say with any certainty who was driving at 21.03. Keeping a time stamp of all events is not something that anyone does but that should not really matter as neither of them believe that they were guilty of driving dangerously
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