Manchester Airport Parking Charge Notice for drop off.
Discussion
A couple of weeks ago, we had my OH's cousin and her husband staying with us.
We picked them up and dropped them off at T2 in the drop-off zone, for which the rob-dogs at Manchester Airport Group charge. They recently introduced barrierless payment, which has been quite controversial. You have to pay for parking within 24 hours by online payment.
We paid first time, but a couple of days after they left, my OH remembered she had forgot to pay. She contacted them and explained she had forgotten to pay and they sent a late payment link. She attempted to use the link but it was dead. She contacted them and told them and got no response.
She does not say who the driver was in the correspondence; she merely states she tried to pay (and as it happens, the driver was not the registered keeper).
A couple of days ago, we got a Parking Charge Notice from APCOA.
I told her I would have a look into it, and said we might be able to appeal it on the grounds we attempted payment and they did not respond when we told them the link did not work, however, they may challenge that by saying the T&Cs stated payment within 24 hours.
Just by chance, I saw the MP for Macclesfield had posted a video of him speaking in Parliament, saying he has taken on cases for constituents who have complained about unclear signage, problems with the payment systems, and unfair payment deadlines.
Somebody commented on the post that airport drop-off zones are not 'relevant land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act, so the registered keeper cannot be held responsible for parking charges.
I have done a bit of Googling, and apparently, "Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly excludes land under statutory control or subject to airport byelaws from being "relevant land".".
One of the first hits is this article referencing Nick Freeman's comments: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Any advice is appreciated.
We picked them up and dropped them off at T2 in the drop-off zone, for which the rob-dogs at Manchester Airport Group charge. They recently introduced barrierless payment, which has been quite controversial. You have to pay for parking within 24 hours by online payment.
We paid first time, but a couple of days after they left, my OH remembered she had forgot to pay. She contacted them and explained she had forgotten to pay and they sent a late payment link. She attempted to use the link but it was dead. She contacted them and told them and got no response.
She does not say who the driver was in the correspondence; she merely states she tried to pay (and as it happens, the driver was not the registered keeper).
A couple of days ago, we got a Parking Charge Notice from APCOA.
I told her I would have a look into it, and said we might be able to appeal it on the grounds we attempted payment and they did not respond when we told them the link did not work, however, they may challenge that by saying the T&Cs stated payment within 24 hours.
Just by chance, I saw the MP for Macclesfield had posted a video of him speaking in Parliament, saying he has taken on cases for constituents who have complained about unclear signage, problems with the payment systems, and unfair payment deadlines.
Somebody commented on the post that airport drop-off zones are not 'relevant land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act, so the registered keeper cannot be held responsible for parking charges.
I have done a bit of Googling, and apparently, "Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly excludes land under statutory control or subject to airport byelaws from being "relevant land".".
One of the first hits is this article referencing Nick Freeman's comments: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Any advice is appreciated.
Ganglandboss said:
A couple of weeks ago, we had my OH's cousin and her husband staying with us.
We picked them up and dropped them off at T2 in the drop-off zone, for which the rob-dogs at Manchester Airport Group charge. They recently introduced barrierless payment, which has been quite controversial. You have to pay for parking within 24 hours by online payment.
We paid first time, but a couple of days after they left, my OH remembered she had forgot to pay. She contacted them and explained she had forgotten to pay and they sent a late payment link. She attempted to use the link but it was dead. She contacted them and told them and got no response.
She does not say who the driver was in the correspondence; she merely states she tried to pay (and as it happens, the driver was not the registered keeper).
A couple of days ago, we got a Parking Charge Notice from APCOA.
I told her I would have a look into it, and said we might be able to appeal it on the grounds we attempted payment and they did not respond when we told them the link did not work, however, they may challenge that by saying the T&Cs stated payment within 24 hours.
Just by chance, I saw the MP for Macclesfield had posted a video of him speaking in Parliament, saying he has taken on cases for constituents who have complained about unclear signage, problems with the payment systems, and unfair payment deadlines.
Somebody commented on the post that airport drop-off zones are not 'relevant land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act, so the registered keeper cannot be held responsible for parking charges.
I have done a bit of Googling, and apparently, "Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly excludes land under statutory control or subject to airport byelaws from being "relevant land".".
One of the first hits is this article referencing Nick Freeman's comments: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Any advice is appreciated.
If you're going to challenge it on the pedantic (but perfectly valid and legal loophole) of refusing to name the driver and the RK being not liable for something they can't prove they did, it would be worth clarifying (doesn't need to be here - could be in your own mind) which one of you did what (driving the car, paying the first time, appealing the decision. AFAIK it is not normally possible for two people to simultaneously drive a car; the RK is a single name (can't be joint names), and typical online payment methods eg personal credit/debit cards are issued individually, with their own unique number, and a single name on them.We picked them up and dropped them off at T2 in the drop-off zone, for which the rob-dogs at Manchester Airport Group charge. They recently introduced barrierless payment, which has been quite controversial. You have to pay for parking within 24 hours by online payment.
We paid first time, but a couple of days after they left, my OH remembered she had forgot to pay. She contacted them and explained she had forgotten to pay and they sent a late payment link. She attempted to use the link but it was dead. She contacted them and told them and got no response.
She does not say who the driver was in the correspondence; she merely states she tried to pay (and as it happens, the driver was not the registered keeper).
A couple of days ago, we got a Parking Charge Notice from APCOA.
I told her I would have a look into it, and said we might be able to appeal it on the grounds we attempted payment and they did not respond when we told them the link did not work, however, they may challenge that by saying the T&Cs stated payment within 24 hours.
Just by chance, I saw the MP for Macclesfield had posted a video of him speaking in Parliament, saying he has taken on cases for constituents who have complained about unclear signage, problems with the payment systems, and unfair payment deadlines.
Somebody commented on the post that airport drop-off zones are not 'relevant land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act, so the registered keeper cannot be held responsible for parking charges.
I have done a bit of Googling, and apparently, "Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly excludes land under statutory control or subject to airport byelaws from being "relevant land".".
One of the first hits is this article referencing Nick Freeman's comments: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Any advice is appreciated.
But yes, the jist of is it right, its not "relevant land" so the RK is not able to be held liable; and does not have to name the driver, even if its himself (or herself).
Nicetobenice said:
If you appeal as the keeper and make the relevant points the appeal will be upheld.
It definitely works.
Yes, airports are not "relevant land" under the POFA so you are not required to identify the driver. Plus there is no way to read the terms and conditions before entering the drop off zone. The airports and their parking operators know this.It definitely works.
Parking legislation needs updating, it is way out of sync with the most recent traps set by parking companies.
There should always be a means of payment at the time and if not then a notices must be served on the RK before any fine can be imposed.
This "Remember" to pay needs to stop. More and more places are doing it.
Payment by mobile phone ONLY needs to go, there should always be a way to pay at the time by cash.
The government are miles behind on this.
It took 20 years to get clamping banned!
There should always be a means of payment at the time and if not then a notices must be served on the RK before any fine can be imposed.
This "Remember" to pay needs to stop. More and more places are doing it.
Payment by mobile phone ONLY needs to go, there should always be a way to pay at the time by cash.
The government are miles behind on this.
It took 20 years to get clamping banned!
The "remember" to pay can be done well though.
Eg dart charge always give you a free go if you forget (once per vehicle number plate at least)
And the pay immediately? Dartford is much nicer without the toll booths, and cash is expensive (and at risk of theft) to allow to build up in a machine and be emptied by someone.
The cost savings with online payment have helped keep parking charges down.
Note this has nothing to do with the op's point- I don't like airport fees and will use the free bus at Gatwick instead. But they charge because they have an asset they can moneterise, just like football clubs or anything else where entry can be controlled.
Eg dart charge always give you a free go if you forget (once per vehicle number plate at least)
And the pay immediately? Dartford is much nicer without the toll booths, and cash is expensive (and at risk of theft) to allow to build up in a machine and be emptied by someone.
The cost savings with online payment have helped keep parking charges down.
Note this has nothing to do with the op's point- I don't like airport fees and will use the free bus at Gatwick instead. But they charge because they have an asset they can moneterise, just like football clubs or anything else where entry can be controlled.
Ian Geary said:
The "remember" to pay can be done well though.
Eg dart charge always give you a free go if you forget (once per vehicle number plate at least)
And the pay immediately? Dartford is much nicer without the toll booths, and cash is expensive (and at risk of theft) to allow to build up in a machine and be emptied by someone.
The cost savings with online payment have helped keep parking charges down.
Note this has nothing to do with the op's point- I don't like airport fees and will use the free bus at Gatwick instead. But they charge because they have an asset they can moneterise, just like football clubs or anything else where entry can be controlled.
I had no real issue with the airport drop off until they were completely unreasonable about a situation. Since then I've not paid once and won't do so until they change the law.Eg dart charge always give you a free go if you forget (once per vehicle number plate at least)
And the pay immediately? Dartford is much nicer without the toll booths, and cash is expensive (and at risk of theft) to allow to build up in a machine and be emptied by someone.
The cost savings with online payment have helped keep parking charges down.
Note this has nothing to do with the op's point- I don't like airport fees and will use the free bus at Gatwick instead. But they charge because they have an asset they can moneterise, just like football clubs or anything else where entry can be controlled.
Nicetobenice said:
I had no real issue with the airport drop off until they were completely unreasonable about a situation. Since then I've not paid once and won't do so until they change the law.
Luton is £9 now, I was aware of the loophole but never been brave enough to do it. Do you respond to letters or just ignore?I was the victim of the much publicised Stansted trap at the McDonalds/Starbucks near Mid-Stay... If you don't know of it, Joe Lycett even did a programme on it. How that is legal, I have absolutely no idea!
In those cases where I feel very much unfairly treated, I'll fight tooth and nail out of principle. In that case my case was dropped. MSE has templated letters on their forum for how to fight these things, including escalation. Pepipoo also shares the same, personally I'd use those sites over PH for these issues.
But, last week dropped off my Mrs at Heathrow to which I knew about the £7 charge and made a point when I got home of paying it. It's a service I appreciated given it saved her 30 minutes faffing on shuttles. Nobody made me drive in there, nobody forced me to pay... I just did it out of principle.
Arguing the law and being deliberately avoidant of paying for services in my mind isn't really cricket. If there wasn't a charge and everyone used it, your convenient drop off would turn into an inconvenient mess.
Not necessarily speaking to the OP in the above though. In your case, just make sure you clearly define your role in this as RK only, who pays for the charge is also irrelevant as this also has nothing to do with who may have driven the car.
Good luck.
In those cases where I feel very much unfairly treated, I'll fight tooth and nail out of principle. In that case my case was dropped. MSE has templated letters on their forum for how to fight these things, including escalation. Pepipoo also shares the same, personally I'd use those sites over PH for these issues.
But, last week dropped off my Mrs at Heathrow to which I knew about the £7 charge and made a point when I got home of paying it. It's a service I appreciated given it saved her 30 minutes faffing on shuttles. Nobody made me drive in there, nobody forced me to pay... I just did it out of principle.
Arguing the law and being deliberately avoidant of paying for services in my mind isn't really cricket. If there wasn't a charge and everyone used it, your convenient drop off would turn into an inconvenient mess.
Not necessarily speaking to the OP in the above though. In your case, just make sure you clearly define your role in this as RK only, who pays for the charge is also irrelevant as this also has nothing to do with who may have driven the car.
Good luck.
James-gbg1e said:
Arguing the law and being deliberately avoidant of paying for services in my mind isn't really cricket. If there wasn't a charge and everyone used it, your convenient drop off would turn into an inconvenient mess.
I can sort of agree with this but in my case they were such dicks over something the can FRO.BertBert said:
Why? There was airport dropoff before charges that worked just fine.
It did 20 years ago, but apparently it got more and more congested; and many drivers were doing "laps" rather than stopping for a period of time etc. Also, they are trying to encourage people to use other transit options, for example the train. Appreciate its not suitable for the OP's situation but in a wider sense, it makes sense. The train station is not that far and its pretty easy to use, when the train is actually running that is (the trains are made by Alfa Romeo).Don't forget that there's the free drop-off on the other side of the M56 at Jetparks 1 (opposite the old Etrop Grange hotel) - where you can get a free shuttle bus to the terminal.
Not so useful for pick-ups though.
I'm appealing this confusing double-charging for a pick-up the other week
I'd paid paid for the longer of the two, as the driver had parked for 25 minutes (20 of which taken up to finally find a space on Level 7)...and they've automatically took out the the other one too, which was only due to the driver entering the Express pick-up, not finding a spot, and exiting. The driver was obviously in there looking for a spot for less than 5 minutes it took to exit, drive to the roundabout, wait at the lights, return and enter the multi-storey at 11:12.
Not so useful for pick-ups though.
I'm appealing this confusing double-charging for a pick-up the other week
I'd paid paid for the longer of the two, as the driver had parked for 25 minutes (20 of which taken up to finally find a space on Level 7)...and they've automatically took out the the other one too, which was only due to the driver entering the Express pick-up, not finding a spot, and exiting. The driver was obviously in there looking for a spot for less than 5 minutes it took to exit, drive to the roundabout, wait at the lights, return and enter the multi-storey at 11:12.
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 1st October 15:26
Nicetobenice said:
No need. It's free right outside the terminal!!
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 1st October 15:29
James-gbg1e said:
Arguing the law and being deliberately avoidant of paying for services in my mind isn't really cricket. If there wasn't a charge and everyone used it, your convenient drop off would turn into an inconvenient mess.
Yes, in my case I thought I had set up autopay and I hadn't. Part of my argument was that as I have residents' discount I clearly wasn't going out of my way to avoid a 50p charge.mmm-five said:
Nicetobenice said:
No need. It's free right outside the terminal!!
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 1st October 15:29
And they don't deal with stuff such a posted above in a straightforward and fair manner so absolutely f
k them.I fundamentally disagree with charging for airport drop off, and the way that many parking companies model only works if they can fine people.
But, the rules are there, the driver knew what they were and didn't do what they should have done - ie pay within 24 hours. If the money is owed, it should be paid.
But, the rules are there, the driver knew what they were and didn't do what they should have done - ie pay within 24 hours. If the money is owed, it should be paid.
blueg33 said:
I fundamentally disagree with charging for airport drop off, and the way that many parking companies model only works if they can fine people.
But, the rules are there, the driver knew what they were and didn't do what they should have done - ie pay within 24 hours. If the money is owed, it should be paid.
If they want to rely on the rules they should operate in a compliant manner.But, the rules are there, the driver knew what they were and didn't do what they should have done - ie pay within 24 hours. If the money is owed, it should be paid.
And then be fair and easy to deal with when their systems can't cope with certain situations.
Until then, I'll rely on the law.
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