Driving away from Wardens?
Discussion
Saw a bloke returning to his car the other day to find a traffic warden ticketing it. He proceeded to have a heated argument for the entire time it took the little gestapo officer to enter the details, print off the ticket and take the photo and was still shouting as the warden wandered off to find his next victim.
As I stood watching the fun I started to wonder. As he had clearly only just begun issuing the ticket, would the bloke have been better off just getting in and driving off? The ticket hadn't been served and the photo evidence hadn't been taken so would you get away with it?
puggit said:Which presents the possibility that the warden was "prevented from isuing it" because the vehicle was never there.
Within London the law allows the ticket to be valid if the warden is prevented from issuing it.
And how about ... stationary at traffic signals alongside double yellow lines. Warden claims "parked" and issues ticket but cannot afix it. Onus is upon driver/keeper to prove they were not parked.
Debate.
Streaky
"Well, Sir. I issue hundreds of tickets every working day. I can't be expected to remember one ticket issued over six months ago. But I wouldn't issue a ticket to a vehicle that was simply waiting for the lights to turn green. I issued 189 tickets that day. Not one other ticket has been successfully appealed."
"Guilty. Next case."
Perjury is only very serious if it can be proved.
And, BTW, see CCTV Parking Ticket.
Streaky
"Guilty. Next case."
Perjury is only very serious if it can be proved.
And, BTW, see CCTV Parking Ticket.
Streaky
DVD will be along shortly to tell us that TfL can issue tickets as part of the decriminalised scheme where the warden is prevented from issuing the ticket.
Since they wouldn't be able to do this except for the provisions of the decriminalised scheme (for criminal parking they would need to affix the ticket, I think), does this invalidate their ability to ask DVLA for the RK's details?
Since they wouldn't be able to do this except for the provisions of the decriminalised scheme (for criminal parking they would need to affix the ticket, I think), does this invalidate their ability to ask DVLA for the RK's details?
Basically,Schedule 4 Road Traffic Act 1991 allows LA's to apply for a Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area Order (PPSSP)for their area. Once granted the effect is to take away the criminal aspect of offences without endorsement of DL for parking etc and replace enforcement from Police to LA by Parking Attendants. The old 'fine' for such an offence is replaced with a 'Penalty Charge Notice' (PCN) that is levied on the Registered Keeper from the outset.
Issue of a PCN had to be either by handing one to the driver where present or by placing it on the offending vehicle. If neither were done then it was held that service had not been effected.
Under Road Traffic (Special Parking Area) (Greater London Authority Roads and GLA Side Roads)Order 2004 this made virtually all road in London a PPSSP and authority for enforcement Transport for London.
The Transport for London (Consequential Provisions )Order 2005 inserted an amendment allowing GLA to issue PCN's by posting for offences detected by Camera and also where a Parking Attendant is prevented by anyone from issuing a PCN, which to me making off falls within this scope.
As yet I have seen nothing that this applies outside GLA but no doubt it will be in the mind of City Councils elsewhere so it could be coming to a Town near you.
It may be of interest but under the Bus Lane Contraventions (Approved Local Authorities)(England) Order 2005 and The Bus Lane Contraventions(Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement)(England) Regs 2005 which come into force on 1st November 2005, then those authorities that have been granted PPSSP and are listed under the first mentioned Order in this para, can decriminalise Bus Lane Contraventions and instead serve a PCN on the REGISTERED KEEPER of offending vehicle who is held responsible. Non payment of a PCN to be treated as a Civil Debt. Same avenues of appeal through LA and then an appointed Adjudicator will apply.
DVD
Issue of a PCN had to be either by handing one to the driver where present or by placing it on the offending vehicle. If neither were done then it was held that service had not been effected.
Under Road Traffic (Special Parking Area) (Greater London Authority Roads and GLA Side Roads)Order 2004 this made virtually all road in London a PPSSP and authority for enforcement Transport for London.
The Transport for London (Consequential Provisions )Order 2005 inserted an amendment allowing GLA to issue PCN's by posting for offences detected by Camera and also where a Parking Attendant is prevented by anyone from issuing a PCN, which to me making off falls within this scope.
As yet I have seen nothing that this applies outside GLA but no doubt it will be in the mind of City Councils elsewhere so it could be coming to a Town near you.
It may be of interest but under the Bus Lane Contraventions (Approved Local Authorities)(England) Order 2005 and The Bus Lane Contraventions(Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement)(England) Regs 2005 which come into force on 1st November 2005, then those authorities that have been granted PPSSP and are listed under the first mentioned Order in this para, can decriminalise Bus Lane Contraventions and instead serve a PCN on the REGISTERED KEEPER of offending vehicle who is held responsible. Non payment of a PCN to be treated as a Civil Debt. Same avenues of appeal through LA and then an appointed Adjudicator will apply.
DVD
DVD is correct with the basic premise that CCTV can now be used to issue PCNs over the whole of London.
However may I point out that TfL only has control over the old GLA roads/ trunk roads which number about 580km in total (and these became the red routes). The other 14,000 kms are controlled by the individual london boroughs and there are a different set of rules and regulations covering these roads. The one covering CCTV in the boroughs was the London Local Authorities Act 2000.
However may I point out that TfL only has control over the old GLA roads/ trunk roads which number about 580km in total (and these became the red routes). The other 14,000 kms are controlled by the individual london boroughs and there are a different set of rules and regulations covering these roads. The one covering CCTV in the boroughs was the London Local Authorities Act 2000.
as per the CCTV post
If a warden hasn't issued you a ticket (stuck on the car or handed it to you ) then it's not issued
The key is to protest it - and then get them to confirm the Car Tax number (which is part of the ticketing process)
I've won 3 protests this way
Just protested the Enfield <a href ="www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=214030&f=10&h=0"> CCTV </a>ticket on 3 points
The photo doesn't show the car unattended only stationary
the photo also clearly shows the parking restriction sign to be covered over
the time between the 2 photos is only 28secs
Not so sure that I'll get anywhere with this one - but worth ago
If a warden hasn't issued you a ticket (stuck on the car or handed it to you ) then it's not issued
The key is to protest it - and then get them to confirm the Car Tax number (which is part of the ticketing process)
I've won 3 protests this way
Just protested the Enfield <a href ="www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=214030&f=10&h=0"> CCTV </a>ticket on 3 points
The photo doesn't show the car unattended only stationary
the photo also clearly shows the parking restriction sign to be covered over
the time between the 2 photos is only 28secs
Not so sure that I'll get anywhere with this one - but worth ago
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