Help! The Mrs. is caught at 44mph in 30 limit
Discussion
I don't want to start a thread regarding the dangers of speeding etc, but Yesterday my girlfreind received a ticket, courtesy of the Scamera massive. Apart from arming me with an excellent comeback should the worst happen to me (hopefully not!), I have a couple of questions.
The ticket states that her vehicle was travelling at 44mph in a 30mph limit. Offence dated 3/11/05, letter dated 11/11/05. I know where the speed trap was (it's location is in the letter) and to make it worse, it's one of the totally crazy 30 limits just before a national limit.
Firstly, What is the likely outcome of doing 44mph in a 30mph limit?
There is 1 photo showing a rear view of her car but no driver or passengers are visible.
What is the "best way" to deal with this? Is there a specific procedure we can follow that may prove beneficial? (i.e ask for photo evidence etc?).
Many thanks,
Gallen (BPH).
The ticket states that her vehicle was travelling at 44mph in a 30mph limit. Offence dated 3/11/05, letter dated 11/11/05. I know where the speed trap was (it's location is in the letter) and to make it worse, it's one of the totally crazy 30 limits just before a national limit.
Firstly, What is the likely outcome of doing 44mph in a 30mph limit?
There is 1 photo showing a rear view of her car but no driver or passengers are visible.
What is the "best way" to deal with this? Is there a specific procedure we can follow that may prove beneficial? (i.e ask for photo evidence etc?).
Many thanks,
Gallen (BPH).
Play a waiting game. If they have given 28 days for you to reply take 27.
I'm guessing this was a camera van? Right? Camera vans use LTI2020 laser speed meters. LTI2020 laser speed meters are in deep deep trouble. The chances of all outstanding prosecutions being dropped are at least evens.
I recommend writing to your MP complaining that you have 'no confidence' in the evidence against your wife, and what is he going to do about it?
And visit Pepipoo.
I'm guessing this was a camera van? Right? Camera vans use LTI2020 laser speed meters. LTI2020 laser speed meters are in deep deep trouble. The chances of all outstanding prosecutions being dropped are at least evens.
I recommend writing to your MP complaining that you have 'no confidence' in the evidence against your wife, and what is he going to do about it?
And visit Pepipoo.
Hi
Well given the amount she was travelling above the limit I would expect the driver to be issued a standard SP30 - that's 3 points and £60 fine, with option to plead guilty by post and avoid court.
With regard to the photographic evidence, you can ask for this (they'll charge you a fee of course!!). However, unless you had reported the car as stolen or you lent it to someone then the driver can only really be you or your missus...hope there's not a problem here (i.e. I hope she was properly insured to use your vehicle!)
JJ
Well given the amount she was travelling above the limit I would expect the driver to be issued a standard SP30 - that's 3 points and £60 fine, with option to plead guilty by post and avoid court.
With regard to the photographic evidence, you can ask for this (they'll charge you a fee of course!!). However, unless you had reported the car as stolen or you lent it to someone then the driver can only really be you or your missus...hope there's not a problem here (i.e. I hope she was properly insured to use your vehicle!)
JJ
She will have been asked to name the driver of her car within 28 days of receipt of letter. Failure to do so - offence. Fine and points. But no offence if she can show she did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver was. Unless she has cast iron evidence to show SCP she was not the driver then it will go to Court and she will have to prove the above to the Bench who will be sceptical as they have heard it many times before.
Other course if she was the driver and has no other grounds for contesting, name herself as the driver. She will then get the Conditional Offer - £60/3 points - all opver and done with no Court.
DVD
Other course if she was the driver and has no other grounds for contesting, name herself as the driver. She will then get the Conditional Offer - £60/3 points - all opver and done with no Court.
DVD
jazzyjeff said:Not quite. You can ask, but likely you won't get. Most areas won't release pictures unless requested as evidence; i.e. you have to turn down the fixed penalty and opt for a day in court before you get to see any evidence. It stinks, because then of course you are liable to more points and a larger, means tested, fine, plus costs.
Hi
Well given the amount she was travelling above the limit I would expect the driver to be issued a standard SP30 - that's 3 points and £60 fine, with option to plead guilty by post and avoid court.
With regard to the photographic evidence, you can ask for this (they'll charge you a fee of course!!). However, unless you had reported the car as stolen or you lent it to someone then the driver can only really be you or your missus...hope there's not a problem here (i.e. I hope she was properly insured to use your vehicle!)
JJ
safespeed said:
Play a waiting game. If they have given 28 days for you to reply take 27.
I'm guessing this was a camera van? Right? Camera vans use LTI2020 laser speed meters. LTI2020 laser speed meters are in deep deep trouble. The chances of all outstanding prosecutions being dropped are at least evens.
I recommend writing to your MP complaining that you have 'no confidence' in the evidence against your wife, and what is he going to do about it?
And visit Pepipoo.
alternatively people could try to stick to 30mph limit which is there for good reason in built up areas as opposed to driving at 50% above the limit and whinging when they get caught.
Clearly most would argue that 30 is too low and they are a very careful driver but in this incident the driver has sped straight past either a bright yellow gatso or van - so clearly not paying attention either.
For 44mph in a 30 its a £60 fine and 3 penalty points, 47 or above is court appearance
Bennno
ds get away with it. Visit [quote=gallen (bph)]I don't want to start a thread regarding the dangers of speeding etc, but Yesterday my girlfreind received a ticket, courtesy of the Scamera massive. Apart from arming me with an excellent comeback should the worst happen to me (hopefully not!), I have a couple of questions.
The ticket states that her vehicle was travelling at 44mph in a 30mph limit. Offence dated 3/11/05, letter dated 11/11/05. I know where the speed trap was (it's location is in the letter) and to make it worse, it's one of the totally crazy 30 limits just before a national limit.
Firstly, What is the likely outcome of doing 44mph in a 30mph limit?
There is 1 photo showing a rear view of her car but no driver or passengers are visible.
What is the "best way" to deal with this? Is there a specific procedure we can follow that may prove beneficial? (i.e ask for photo evidence etc?).
Many thanks,
Gallen (BPH).[/quote]
www.pepipoo.com
Sean
The ticket states that her vehicle was travelling at 44mph in a 30mph limit. Offence dated 3/11/05, letter dated 11/11/05. I know where the speed trap was (it's location is in the letter) and to make it worse, it's one of the totally crazy 30 limits just before a national limit.
Firstly, What is the likely outcome of doing 44mph in a 30mph limit?
There is 1 photo showing a rear view of her car but no driver or passengers are visible.
What is the "best way" to deal with this? Is there a specific procedure we can follow that may prove beneficial? (i.e ask for photo evidence etc?).
Many thanks,
Gallen (BPH).[/quote]
www.pepipoo.com
Sean
bennno said:
For 44mph in a 30 its a £60 fine and 3 penalty points, 47 or above is court appearance
Only so if they have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Without that it's bluff and bluster all the way to the bank.
LTI2020 DOES NOT gather evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I've seen it fail time and time again.
Yugguy said:
Tell her you'll take the points in return for regular Oxo Tower action.
Or get someone with a licence who no longer drives to take them.
Apparantly 500,000 people a year pass the points on. As long as the 60 notes keep rolling in the Scam Prats aren't bothered - its not as if its about safety, is it?
safespeed said:
For 44mph in a 30 its a £60 fine and 3 penalty points, 47 or above is court appearance
Only so if they have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Without that it's bluff and bluster all the way to the bank.
LTI2020 DOES NOT gather evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I've seen it fail time and time again.
I can understand what safespeed is trying to do, but if somebody is caught at almost 50% over the limit, then its not a 'safespeed'.
Perhaps a laser detector is not 100% absolute but for sure if the speed read out said 44mph then even through blinkers you must realise she wasnt doing 30.
I am all for higher limits on motorways and sensible speed limits, but speeding past a flourescent yellow camera / van at 50% above the limit without realising is simply a fair cop of an ignorant driver.
Bennno
bennno said:
if somebody is caught at almost 50% over the limit, then its not a 'safespeed'.
Depends on whether or not the limit was set based purely on engineering grounds, or if a certain amount of political/nimby-esque meddling was involved... How many roads can you think of where, without any change in the nature of the road, the limit suddenly drops?
bennno said:
I am all for higher limits on motorways and sensible speed limits, but speeding past a flourescent yellow camera / van at 50% above the limit without realising is simply a fair cop of an ignorant driver.
If this was a talivan, and if they're marked up in the same way in the OP's area as they are down here in Thames Valley, then it's oh so easy to mistake them for just another anonymous white van - the yellow roof lights and red/yellow hi-vis markings on the back doors make them look remarkably like local council vehicles. They absolutely do NOT stand out as being something worthy of attention. And if it was a fixed camera - reflective yellow they may be (although on some of them, they seem to be losing their reflective abilities quite badly), but that doesn't help you one bit if the camera is tucked away in a mass of branches/bushes or hiding behind another piece of street furniture, especially if it's a road which you're not familiar with.
Then throw in the other demands on a drivers attention, particularly if something more important than scanning for scamming devices has just grabbed your full attention (is it more important for a driver to be on the look out for a camera, or, say, for that pedestrian who's just walked straight out of a shop and appears to be about to cross the road without looking?) and it's not difficult to imagine even someone who's familiar with the road and perhaps even knows full well exactly where the camera is, completely forgetting about it.
Benno, back in the old days I'd have been with you on the observation front.
Sadly, it's not so clear cut now.
I was driving down a dual carrigeway recently, at the limit as it happens, and right in the distance at the end of a half mile long straight I see a van that looks like a maintenance van. As the light is behind it I can just about make out that it's got orange lights on the roof. It looks for all the world like a maintenance van.
Only when I'm closing right in on the damn thing is it possible to make out that it's actually a scamera van. Unless you're going to go around driving with binoculars on your face, there is no way to tell it's a talivan before it's too late....
Sadly, it's not so clear cut now.
I was driving down a dual carrigeway recently, at the limit as it happens, and right in the distance at the end of a half mile long straight I see a van that looks like a maintenance van. As the light is behind it I can just about make out that it's got orange lights on the roof. It looks for all the world like a maintenance van.
Only when I'm closing right in on the damn thing is it possible to make out that it's actually a scamera van. Unless you're going to go around driving with binoculars on your face, there is no way to tell it's a talivan before it's too late....
bennno said:
I can understand what safespeed is trying to do, but if somebody is caught at almost 50% over the limit, then its not a 'safespeed'.
You can't say that. What if it was NSL last week? Even more commonly, what if it's 30ft from the NSL zone?
The speed limit is not a safety limit. It's just a number.
Theres a road around the corner from me thats about 3/4 of a mile long. For about 80 years, it was a NSL road.
About 5 years ago they changed it to a 40mph road. Why? Dunno. Its absolutely perfectly arrow straight and flat SCL, with huge flat fields on either side and clear, perfect visibility. Pavement down one side, and one entrance to a business park near the lights at the top. No other junctions, until you get to a sharp 90 right at the bottom, over a stone bridge - with the biggest chevrons you've ever seen in your life to warn people of the turn (protected by armco)
Nobody has any idea why it was changed.
About 5 years ago they changed it to a 40mph road. Why? Dunno. Its absolutely perfectly arrow straight and flat SCL, with huge flat fields on either side and clear, perfect visibility. Pavement down one side, and one entrance to a business park near the lights at the top. No other junctions, until you get to a sharp 90 right at the bottom, over a stone bridge - with the biggest chevrons you've ever seen in your life to warn people of the turn (protected by armco)
Nobody has any idea why it was changed.
safespeed said:
I can understand what safespeed is trying to do, but if somebody is caught at almost 50% over the limit, then its not a 'safespeed'.
You can't say that. What if it was NSL last week? Even more commonly, what if it's 30ft from the NSL zone?
The speed limit is not a safety limit. It's just a number.
Prescisely. Even better than that, it is advocated that the 'safe' speed to drive one foot one side of an imaginary line is 60, yet one foot the other side of the imaginary line is 30.
By definition the way that the scameras are funded are from theor own proceeds. Thus they will naturally be positioned where they will get most revenue. They will get most revenue not from the crazy sod doing 95 in a 40, but in the stretches of road where the general consensus of what speed feels safe to the majority of drivers (and thus the speed they are likely to drive) most conflicts with the number in mph which is allotted to a particular zone.
safespeed said:
The speed limit is not a safety limit. It's just a number.
So on this basis you think they should scrap all speed limits and any enforcement then?
What speed differential is acceptable and safe in built up areas? Should individual drivers decide this purely for themselves?
How do you establish safety limits if you dont enforce blanket speed limits, bearing in mind driver skill, reactions & observation, road conditions, cars all vary so widely.
Bennno
bennno said:
So on this basis you think they should scrap all speed limits and any enforcement then?
Have you ever read this ? www.motorists.com/pressreleases/montana.html
Extract said:
"... In 1999, after 4 years of no numerical or posted daytime speed limit on these classifications of highways, outside of urban areas, montana recorded its lowest fatality rate.
Research scientists and engineers have long known that there are sometimes unexpected results from changes in public policies. Ironically, the paradox of no posted speed limits and low fatalities is no surprise to the traffic safety engineering community..."
bennno said:
The speed limit is not a safety limit. It's just a number.
So on this basis you think they should scrap all speed limits and any enforcement then?
What speed differential is acceptable and safe in built up areas? Should individual drivers decide this purely for themselves?
How do you establish safety limits if you dont enforce blanket speed limits, bearing in mind driver skill, reactions & observation, road conditions, cars all vary so widely.
I think speed limits are a useful part of a road safety system. A 'good servant' if you like. But they have been promoted WAY beyond their level of competence and have become a cruel and incompetent master.
The answer is to return to discretionary enforcement. No competent and careful driver should fear for his licence, but skilled Police should use their skills to identify and prosecute those using speed carelessly or recklessly.
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