Discussion
How do the Police (or anyone for that matter) "know" who is fibbing, and who is telling the absolute truth?
Everyone is fallible, and in an infinate world, an infinate number of possibilities may occur.
For example, Plod observes you speeding. Pulls you up, and you say "I was legging it from a road rager". Who is to know if this is true or not?
What I'm saying, is how does society function in this mystery area of trust?
We're all guilty of something, but most of the time we're decent people. So what gives it away?
Think carefully about what you say to a copper next time you are stopped. You may just get away with it!!
rgds.
Everyone is fallible, and in an infinate world, an infinate number of possibilities may occur.
For example, Plod observes you speeding. Pulls you up, and you say "I was legging it from a road rager". Who is to know if this is true or not?
What I'm saying, is how does society function in this mystery area of trust?
We're all guilty of something, but most of the time we're decent people. So what gives it away?
Think carefully about what you say to a copper next time you are stopped. You may just get away with it!!
rgds.
You've heard the one about the wife who tells the traffic cop pulling her husband "it's best not to argue with him when he's drunk." It never ceases to amaze me just how many people when put under the slightest pressure react by grabbing an imaginary gun, aiming at the ground, and shooting themselves in both feet. Cops and courts don't need to pick on people, though admittedly it's a perk of the job, we could keep ourselves busy just dealing with the plonkers who don't know when to shut up. But the experience gained from them, counts towards assessing who else is trying it on.
In most cases its simple, you just test out the story by asking a few questions, Eg
Q."whats your name"
A."Karl Morris"
so you write out the HO/RT/1 and ask him to sign it, he signs Karl Moris,
Q."are you sure that is your correct name"
A. "Yes boss"
Q. "have you ever been in trouble with the Police"
A. "no boss"
"right your locked up sec 25 PACE (power of arrest for a person who has commited any offence and whose details can't be ascertained)"
Q. "why don't you believe me"
A."simple Morris is spelt with 2 'r's and usually only ex-prison inmates use the term 'boss' to police officers"
A. "I'm illiterate I left school at 14"
A. "tell it to the magistrates".
The same technique seems to work well for most things, people are good at inventing the 'lie' but are usually not clever enough to fill in all the detail, so when you probe the events surrounding the lie it falls apart, anyway so far that works for me reasonably well.
Q."whats your name"
A."Karl Morris"
so you write out the HO/RT/1 and ask him to sign it, he signs Karl Moris,
Q."are you sure that is your correct name"
A. "Yes boss"
Q. "have you ever been in trouble with the Police"
A. "no boss"
"right your locked up sec 25 PACE (power of arrest for a person who has commited any offence and whose details can't be ascertained)"
Q. "why don't you believe me"
A."simple Morris is spelt with 2 'r's and usually only ex-prison inmates use the term 'boss' to police officers"
A. "I'm illiterate I left school at 14"
A. "tell it to the magistrates".
The same technique seems to work well for most things, people are good at inventing the 'lie' but are usually not clever enough to fill in all the detail, so when you probe the events surrounding the lie it falls apart, anyway so far that works for me reasonably well.
Carl
Do you have children?
Do you have contact with children through your family?
Do you know when they are lying?
It is not much different when you deal with an adult. Body language is a major factor as well as what John posted above.
To lie well, you have to have a really good memory and act out the lie all the time yo are being asked about the truth.
Very difficult to master. Most people who are questioned by the Police are under stress which makes it even harder to keep the lie from being discovered.
The majority of people that you talk to as a Police officer, who are not victims or witnesses (even some of these do), lie to you.
Those that are questioned about really serious matters are told that they do not have to say anything. Those that have something to hide normally take that option.
Innocent people sing like birds. When a suspect is being questioned and they are so deep in the sh1t that they realise that to lie would be futile, to bubble your mate will take the heat away from you.
Being a parent and a copper, you get a gut feeling when the truth is being bent.
Do you have children?
Do you have contact with children through your family?
Do you know when they are lying?
It is not much different when you deal with an adult. Body language is a major factor as well as what John posted above.
To lie well, you have to have a really good memory and act out the lie all the time yo are being asked about the truth.
Very difficult to master. Most people who are questioned by the Police are under stress which makes it even harder to keep the lie from being discovered.
The majority of people that you talk to as a Police officer, who are not victims or witnesses (even some of these do), lie to you.
Those that are questioned about really serious matters are told that they do not have to say anything. Those that have something to hide normally take that option.
Innocent people sing like birds. When a suspect is being questioned and they are so deep in the sh1t that they realise that to lie would be futile, to bubble your mate will take the heat away from you.
Being a parent and a copper, you get a gut feeling when the truth is being bent.
Well Madcop,
I didn't realise that all cops had a Pychologists degree. Well I never would have thought. I suppose that justifies why they get paid more than firemen then. Ah, now all becomes clear. It's got nothing to do with the fact that each cop is his own little private enterprise to charge fines as he sees fit and should a member of the public DARE to protect his family, his livelihood, his career, his life then the officer can say whatever the toss he wants in court to get the prosecution.
Whatever happened to Innocent Until Proven Guilty?
Seems to me that the police can't see what the hell this government is doing to the country. Or do you care? As long as your job is safe - it does'nt matter - eh?
Sorry - couldn't you tell by my body language what I am trying to say?
I didn't realise that all cops had a Pychologists degree. Well I never would have thought. I suppose that justifies why they get paid more than firemen then. Ah, now all becomes clear. It's got nothing to do with the fact that each cop is his own little private enterprise to charge fines as he sees fit and should a member of the public DARE to protect his family, his livelihood, his career, his life then the officer can say whatever the toss he wants in court to get the prosecution.
Whatever happened to Innocent Until Proven Guilty?
Seems to me that the police can't see what the hell this government is doing to the country. Or do you care? As long as your job is safe - it does'nt matter - eh?
Sorry - couldn't you tell by my body language what I am trying to say?
I dont see that just because a suspect says nothing, that it in anyway makes them guilty.
Maybe theyre shy, or just have nothing to say, or maybe they feel that whatever they do say will be twisted to make them look guilty?
Its been done before..remember the Birmingham six?
Say nothing...you have the right to remain silent, thats the first thing they tell you when under arrest or caution.
Thyre the smart ones, let them work it out for themselves...and no Madcop, ive never been a crim..
Maybe theyre shy, or just have nothing to say, or maybe they feel that whatever they do say will be twisted to make them look guilty?
Its been done before..remember the Birmingham six?
Say nothing...you have the right to remain silent, thats the first thing they tell you when under arrest or caution.
Thyre the smart ones, let them work it out for themselves...and no Madcop, ive never been a crim..
lucozade said: Well Madcop,
I didn't realise that all cops had a Pychologists degree. Well I never would have thought.
Its called life and living with it and dealing with mostly the dregs of it. Probably better than a psychologists degree. If that was the case then we would all be Dr
I suppose that justifies why they get paid more than firemen then. Ah, now all becomes clear. It's got nothing to do with the fact that each cop is his own little private enterprise to charge fines as he sees fit
Where on earth did you get the idea that Police could levy fines themselves
They are set by statute and we never take cash (well nearly never anyway)
and should a member of the public DARE to protect his family, his livelihood, his career, his life then the officer can say whatever the toss he wants in court to get the prosecution.
This is of course possible. But keep on protecting
Whatever happened to Innocent Until Proven Guilty?
Still the case ever since the Magna Carta
Seems to me that the police can't see what the hell this government is doing to the country. Or do you care? As long as your job is safe - it does'nt matter - eh?
Sorry - couldn't you tell by my body language what I am trying to say?
HaHaHaHahahahahahhhaah.........
You should see it from our side of the fence
You what!!!!!
I can see exactly where it is all going. I just have to live with it for maybe the next 30 years and then it won't matter anyway (well to me)
What on earth has this vehement attack got to do with whether you can tell if someone is lying.
If Police officers think someone is lying, the only tools they have to rebut them are factual evidence or evidence from interview in conjunction with factual evidence.
If Police officers lie in court, they may well be found out. To do so on oath attracts severe penalties. Ask Jeffrey Archer
Police officers do not convict and sentence anyone. That is left to Jurys and Magistrates who use probably the same methods that everyone else does to decide the truth.
When you have been lied to for over 20 years everyday, it becomes relatively easy to see when they are coming at you.
The prisons are overflowing with people that have been fitted up
Me, SYNICAL, Naaaaaaah....!
>> Edited by madcop on Thursday 5th December 15:53
Deltaf the Jury is not stocked up with people who have the relevant quals either. It can be gut feeling etc.. or body language, eye contact, breathing etc.. I am sure Plod who deal with lying scrotes day in day out know far more than any 'Professional' type who sits in an office all day long.....
Innocent until proven guilty has waned a bit now Fleet St seem to think they are Judge/Jury and Executioner. The sooner a few Editors end up in jail for that the better in my book
Innocent until proven guilty has waned a bit now Fleet St seem to think they are Judge/Jury and Executioner. The sooner a few Editors end up in jail for that the better in my book
Now that's a splendid idea!
Jason F said: Innocent until proven guilty has waned a bit now Fleet St seem to think they are Judge/Jury and Executioner. The sooner a few Editors end up in jail for that the better in my book
I'd like to nominate that nasty piece of work who edits the News of the World (Rebeccah Wade IIRC?) to be first up to the gallows.
So although it has been shown that their conviction was unsafe (i.e. they are not actually proven guilty), you are still willing to tar them with the tag of being murderers?
Is it this sort of thinkng that has been used to justify the framing of innocent people by certain members of the constabulary?
Although the police ore on the whole honest, the exceptions are serious enough that they do shake people's faith in the system as a whole.
It's not just dishonesty, it is sometimes criminal negligence, caused by things such as the institutional racism that's been shown to infect the met.
Refusal by officers to accept that there are more than one or two bad apples again harms the whole force. How do you think members of the public feel being told, for example, that "police are not above the law", when they are treated so differently by it (witness the member of CID whose speeding case was dropped as he "couldn't remember" who was driving).
Is it this sort of thinkng that has been used to justify the framing of innocent people by certain members of the constabulary?
Although the police ore on the whole honest, the exceptions are serious enough that they do shake people's faith in the system as a whole.
It's not just dishonesty, it is sometimes criminal negligence, caused by things such as the institutional racism that's been shown to infect the met.
Refusal by officers to accept that there are more than one or two bad apples again harms the whole force. How do you think members of the public feel being told, for example, that "police are not above the law", when they are treated so differently by it (witness the member of CID whose speeding case was dropped as he "couldn't remember" who was driving).
northernboy said: So although it has been shown that their conviction was unsafe (i.e. they are not actually proven guilty), you are still willing to tar them with the tag of being murderers?
Yep I am.
I read a lot about this case, the evidence, and the pasts of the individuals involved, I can safely say if I'd been on the jury I'd have wanted to hang the fluckers.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff