Legal - old car ins. co send demand for money

[davidra]

hiya

Received yesterday a letter from an old car ins. co., who last insured me oh... 2 years ago now. 2.5 maybe. Anyway, they say they have gone through their accounting again and discovered that I owe them 95 quid but they don't remember what for. The premium on the policy was ~350 and was definitely paid, so I don't know why there should be any money owing (was paid in full up front). The policy was cancelled when I left the country, and they were aware of this (got them to send me a letter of no claims). They are threatening court action though they admit this the first letter they have sent regarding the money. No claims or accidents occurred during the policy (or ever). Weird cos I did think they were quite a reasonable company (not scammers).

Long and the short of it is:
Can a company rock up 2 years later and demand money for unspecified reasons?
Can they make me pay it?

Bear in mind I am not in a good position to defend myself being 20000 km away.

Any advice much appreciated
dave

[supermono]

I'd have thought a letter saying you're very disappointed that they feel it's appropriate to inconvenience you for their small error so far in the past. However, you'd be happy to consider the request seriously as soon as they can provide a detailed explanation of why this amount is owing.

SM

[wiggy001]

Funny you should say this, but recently had a similar thing:

Left my insurance company in December (unfortunately one month into a new premium) and, at the time of cancellation, asked what the balance would be. This was just £40 admin fee (pretty steep but my own fault for not cancelling at renewal time) plus a few quid for the days in the new month I'd been insured for. Fair enough.

Got a letter just before Xmas demanding £25 that was still outstanding (the above £40+ was taken by my direct debit, which I then cancelled). No mention of what for or even who to make cheques payable to. I called them, asked who to make the payment to, and sent them a cheque (didn't have the time to argue about it for the sake of £25).

Last week, got a letter from a debt recovery agency demanding £50 for failure to pay their client (the insurance company). I explained that I'd sent them a cheque which has yet to be paid in.

If they've lost the cheque (or even if it was lost in the post), where do I stand regarding the payment? In my eyes, I had one letter demanding payment, and I sent the payment immediately - there's no way I'm paying another £25 for someone else's mistake...

(Sorry for the slight hijack)

[Mr Whippy]

Talk to the FSA that regulate all insurers and such like.

I had trouble with Flu* after I cancelled. "So were settled" "yep", "great"

Week or so later "you owe us £90"

If you honestly were not made aware of this cost at the time of taking out the insurance, it was mis-sold, and as such are not liable. Simple as.

FSA is handy because the responsibility is on the insurer to make sure YOU know what you have to pay for. If they come up with charges they didn't make clear or write down, then tough for them!

Dave

[Dwight VanDriver]

Wiggy

A debt recovery service will typically collect debts using 3 stages:

1. Formal Demand Letter

2. Telephone Call

3. Second Formal Demand Letter/Solicitors Letter

If after this stage the debt has not been recovered, they have the option of legal action through the Civil Courts. No Court Order, then as I understand it they cannot collect the debt.

dvd

[GreenV8S]

Unless they can prove that you owe them the money, I don't see how they have a leg to stand on. Just saying 'we reckon you owe us X' isn't proof, unless they can back this up with an itemised bill (which you can always dispute if you disagree) or statement of account showing the transaction(s) when the debt was incurred.

[pdV6]

supermono said:

However, you'd be happy to consider the request seriously as soon as they can provide a detailed explanation of why this amount is owing.

Spot on!

[justinp1]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Wiggy A debt recovery service will typically collect debts using 3 stages: 1. Formal Demand Letter 2. Telephone Call 3. Second Formal Demand Letter/Solicitors Letter If after this stage the debt has not been recovered, they have the option of legal action through the Civil Courts. No Court Order, then as I understand it they cannot collect the debt. dvd

Being on the bad end of a false claim like this myself from a Gas bill which was from six months after I left a house, Dwight is exactly right.

Knowing a bit about the law, and having twice already furnished them with the proof, over the last two years the gas company have employed at least five separate companies to send me threatening letters about how they are going to attach further costs, get the court to get my employer to take the money from my earnings, employ a baliff yada yada...

What they dont inform you is, is that they can only do this after they have applied to the court, the court has sent you the summons and you did not attend the trial, or you lost the case. After this point the court would have to send you the outcome of the case and give you the cahance to pay. If you fail to do this the company would then have to apply to the court to employ a bailiff.

The important bit is, if they say they owe you £100 and you dont pay, it wont go any further because is will cost them hundreds of pounds to pay a solicitor to fight the case in court, and even if they win they can only charge you an additional £50 for their court costs. Thus they will still be out of pocket.

Proof of this is that although the gas company have accepted I dont owe them the money, they have farmed the case out to at least 5 collection companies, and of course it has not gone to court yet...

If it does, not only will I win I will use the opportunity to counterclaim for the time taken to sort it out!

[Mr Whippy]

Justin, can the outstanding supposed "debt" still be applied to your name for future services and products?

Ie, if you wanted gas at another residence, would the company come after you there?

Sounds like something that will always be hovering over your name, because you won't pay it (as it's not yours), and they won't settle it by going to court

???

Dave

[justinp1]

Mr Whippy said:

Justin, can the outstanding supposed "debt" still be applied to your name for future services and products? Ie, if you wanted gas at another residence, would the company come after you there? Sounds like something that will always be hovering over your name, because you won't pay it (as it's not yours), and they won't settle it by going to court ??? Dave

Funnily enough yes, as the situation was is that the letting agency where I used to live put the debt fraudulently in my name, with the full knowledge it was not mine so they did not have to pay it themselves.

They also took the liberty of letting the gas company know of my new address, so yes, it did follow me.

However, this did not stop the gas company sending round representatives this week to sell me gas!

The only problem which could arrive is that if you have a credit account with the company, and an ongoing electricity/gas account is included - that they have the right to put your details on Experian/Equifax. The knock on effect of this is that if you apply for credit in an automated system, ie a credit card on the net, it may show up against your name as a default. However if it is for something run by humans, such as a mortgage application, when I explained the situation they ignored it.

[hanse cronje]

you need to contact the chief executive, well write a letter addressed to him, he won't answer it but someone will, then, if no joy, go to the Association of British Insurers ABI - not fsa, as it is a motor issue not a life/pension type issue, that assumes your company is a member but they usually are

[davidra]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just for interest, at what stage does a claimed "debt" affect your credit rating? Can a company blacklist you without a CCJ against you?

thanks
dave

[_dobbo_]

davidra said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just for interest, at what stage does a claimed "debt" affect your credit rating? Can a company blacklist you without a CCJ against you? thanks dave

I may be wrong - but unless you had a credit agreement with them they can't blacklist you at all. If you payed upfront for your insurance there was no credit agreement, ergo no "black mark" on your credit record.