footway parking in greater london

[mhussa]

Are there any "Highway Code" and "Section 15 GLC General Powers Act 1974" experts in here?

I got a PCN whilst visiting a friend in Enfield, unfortunately I parked two wheels on the kerbstone and got a ticket for it. The pavement was very wide and the only reason I parked there was to allow traffic coming out of the junction opposite to turn without hitting the car.

OK, now all you londoners will say "tut tut" no footway parking its illegal, but I'm from outside of the M25 and had no idea it was a parking offence. I have to park 2 wheels on the pavement outside my house because it would obstruct traffic down the single lane.

Now Enfield Council parking offence processing is handled by NCP so I wrote a letter to them appealing that I was not a local and had no idea what "section 15 GLC General Powers Act 1974" had to say on the subject. I wasn't happy about having to appeal to an organisation which is privately held and whose main purpose is profit, and suprise surprise I was referred to the road traffic act and given 14 days for discounted penalty charge.

I'm going to appeal against it but I need more information to convince an adjudicator to allow the appeal.

The NCP letter states:

Enfield/NCP said:

It has been a contravention since the 2nd January 1985 to park a vehicle with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway within the Greater London Area. The contravention is mentioned in the Highway code.

I think the relevant bit of Highway code is here: www.highwaycode.gov.uk/22.htm

Rule 218

I've done a fair amount of research around the internet and can't find any reference in the highway code to the restriction in greater london. Not only that, its a "DO NOT" rule and not a "MUST NOT" which is backed up by Law. The rule implies its purpose is to prevent obstruction or inconvenience, and in my case I was doing neither.

I could actually just pay it, but it feels deeply unfair since I had no idea that this applies in Greater London. How was/am I supposed to know? signs are only placed for exempt areas so how can anyone visiting London be given fair advance notice of this restriction?

Any helpful advice appreciated.

Thanks

[7db]

Unlucky.

Unfortunatley ignorance of the law is no excuse, and the Highway Code is not the authority on the law.

If you push it, they might prefer to go for driving other than on the highway.

[matchless]

I do believe that if you laid some paper over the pavement and drove over that you have not commited any offence, am I right?, BIB?

[mhussa]

7db said:

Unfortunatley ignorance of the law is no excuse, and the Highway Code is not the authority on the law.

hmmm, interesting. A number of appeals have been granted because of inadequate signage meaning parking restrictions where not presented to the driver to make them aware. In this case how was I supposed to know? How is anyone driving in to london with limited traffic law knowledge supposed to know? for footway parking the signs work the other way around and are only displayed for exemption.

I think what the anonymous person who wrote the enfield/NCP reply was suggesting that its in the highway code so you have no excuse.

7db said:

If you push it, they might prefer to go for driving other than on the highway.

what offence is this? and can they legally change the offence if they "feel like it"? doesn't sound right.


>> Edited by mhussa on Sunday 29th January 08:38

[streaky]

mhussa said:

[ ... ] The NCP letter states: Enfield/NCP said: It has been a contravention since the 2nd January 1985 to park a vehicle with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway within the Greater London Area. The contravention is mentioned in the Highway code. I think the relevant bit of Highway code is here: www.highwaycode.gov.uk/22.htm Rule 218 I've done a fair amount of research around the internet and can't find any reference in the highway code to the restriction in greater london. Not only that, its a "DO NOT" rule and not a "MUST NOT" which is backed up by Law. The rule implies its purpose is to prevent obstruction or inconvenience, and in my case I was doing neither.

You could write and ask where the "contravention" is mentioned in the HC. If they refer to 218, then include this in your appeal, pointing out that they are relying upon a communication (the HC) that does not mandate not parking on the pavement and without signage there is no way for an out-of-towner to know it is a local offence. Pretty typical, BTW, that Londoners expect the world to know about their local rules - Streaky

[mhussa]

thanks streaky, thats exactly what I was thinking. I can't find any reference to this restriction in London anywhere in the highway code which is a national publication. I can't think how I else I'm reasonably meant to be informed about it. If It had a mention to the GLC act then I wouldn't have bothered but it clearly hasn't.

[sultanbrown]

Wow.
I don't live in London and never knew I could park on the pavement. It certainly would have made my driving test easier.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Parking on a footpath can be an offence under Road Traffic Act or Highway Act as an obstruction. For obstruction one would have to show unreasonable use of the highway, which includes footpath i.e.pedestrians having to go on the road etc.

Section 15 Great London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 will outline the specific absolute offence of parking with wheels on a footpath and the enforcement by the Local Authority who can sub contract out to a private firm. From the Camden site "In Greater London, pavement parking is specifically forbidden, except in particular streets [Section 15 of the Greater London (General Powers) Act 1974], and offenders may be fined."


Rule 140 Highway Code mentions DO NOT park at various places which includes a footpath AND also within 10 metres of a junction except in approved parking space. I think the majority of these areas are well known by the average motorists without the need to know the specific legislation.

dvd

>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Sunday 29th January 15:44

[streaky]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Parking on a footpath can be an offence under Road Traffic Act or Highway Act as an obstruction. For obstruction one would have to show unreasonable use of the highway, which includes footpath i.e.pedestrians having to go on the road etc. Section 15 Great London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 will outline the specific absolute offence of parking with wheels on a footpath and the enforcement by the Local Authority who can sub contract out to a private firm. From the Camden site "In Greater London, pavement parking is specifically forbidden, except in particular streets [Section 15 of the Greater London (General Powers) Act 1974], and offenders may be fined." Rule 140 Highway Code mentions DO NOT park at various places which includes a footpath AND also within 10 metres of a junction except in approved parking space. I think the majority of these areas are well known by the average motorists without the need to know the specific legislation. dvd >> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Sunday 29th January 15:44

DVD - as you know, "DO NOT" in the HC does not have the force of law. Those paragraphs of the HC that are backed by law are (generally) "MUST NOT" and the relevant section(s) referred to below.

BTW, Rule 140 refer to overtaking by large vehicles (at least in the current online edition).

Streaky

[Dwight VanDriver]

Wrist duly slapped Streaky - mines the HC 1993 booklet......

A failure on the part of a person to observe any provision of the Highway Code shall not in itself render that person liable to criminal proceedinmgs of any kind BUT ANY SUCH FAILURE may in any proceedings, civil or criminal and including offence under RTA etc be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is the question in those proceedings.
Section 38 Road Traffic Act 1988

dvd

[deva link]

mhussa said:

I have to park 2 wheels on the pavement outside my house because it would obstruct traffic down the single lane.

Unless local rules specifically allow parking on the footpath, you're committing an offence very time you do this.

[falcemob]

mhussa said:

I could actually just pay it, but it feels deeply unfair since I had no idea that this applies in Greater London. How was/am I supposed to know? signs are only placed for exempt areas so how can anyone visiting London be given fair advance notice of this restriction? Any helpful advice appreciated. Thanks

This made me think of my new neighbour who is from South Africa, he and his SA friends/relations tend to park at 90 degrees, right across the pavement blocking it completely, that way they can park two cars in the space of one although we have to walk in the road to get round them.
They seem to have got away with it so far but no doubt they will get a ticket one day.

[mhussa]

deva link said:

mhussa said: I have to park 2 wheels on the pavement outside my house because it would obstruct traffic down the single lane. Unless local rules specifically allow parking on the footpath, you're committing an offence very time you do this.

I live in a cul-de-sac with a roundabout in the middle and everyone in it has to park like this to allow traffic through. I know a few councils in London realised the problem with treating this as a blanket ban and are introducing exemptions. Exemption signage and traffic policy aren't the fastest things in the world to be decided or implemented especially with other services to focus on. There is quite a problem with parking in the town I live and if this was applied without warning, I think it would be political suicide for the council (especially if no alternatives were presented).

You mentioned it was an offence, now this is the bit which is unclear. In Greater London, it is (apparently) but not elsewhere. If it is clearly an offence outside of london why isn't there a nationwide law forbidding it?

As I mentioned before rule 218 implies that you should not cause an obstruction. If the car clearly causes an obstruction then fair enough there should be a consequence. But if it isn't then some flexibility is necessary to deal with the reality of so many cars in the "traffic network". I think a "jobsworth" attitude to applying this nationwide would aggravate people.

I live in Harlow and it was originally planned around families with a single car of a certain width, well we all know the reality today and in the evenings most of the residential areas are crammed with cars. Just imagine all those offending footway parkers! a veritable fantasy for some traffic "professionals". It really isn't a good idea to p*ss that many people off. Politicians can afford to disaffect smaller groups but not larger bodies of registered voters.

The council is meant to be "fair" in its parking enforcement dealings and certainly in the area that I live they have been because they have assessed the area and have not indicated any evil repeat offending footway parking offences are taking place. If councils take a more "communicative" approach people are much more understanding about what they have to do.

I will be appealing because I want a "fair" assessment, I do not believe an external parking enforcement contractor can give me this regardless of their "business ethics". The adjudicators decision will be final and it may go against me? so what? at least I'll have tried.

[mhussa]

falcemob said:

This made me think of my new neighbour who is from South Africa, he and his SA friends/relations tend to park at 90 degrees, right across the pavement blocking it completely, that way they can park two cars in the space of one although we have to walk in the road to get round them. They seem to have got away with it so far but no doubt they will get a ticket one day.

I would certainly not defend footway parking to that extent. Maybe telling them politely that it could get a ticket would be a nice gesture they may appreciate it. If they don't then certainly ticket/drag it away/whatever.

In my defence the traffic warden picture shows the wheels on the kerbstone, and six foot's worth of pavement, AND the junction across the road (sigh).

[7db]

streaky said:

Dwight VanDriver said: ... Rule 140 Highway Code mentions DO NOT park at various places which includes a footpath AND also within 10 metres of a junction except in approved parking space. I think the majority of these areas are well known by the average motorists without the need to know the specific legislation... DVD - as you know, "DO NOT" in the HC does not have the force of law. Those paragraphs of the HC that are backed by law are (generally) "MUST NOT" and the relevant section(s) referred to below...

Streaky - as you know there is no need for a law to be broken for a parking ticket to be issued. Especially in London.

[mhussa]

7db said:

Streaky - as you know there is no need for a law to be broken for a parking ticket to be issued. Especially in London.

and especially when targets have to be met.

[awager]

mhussa said:

I got a PCN whilst visiting a friend in Enfield, unfortunately I parked two wheels on the kerbstone and got a ticket for it. The pavement was very wide and the only reason I parked there was to allow traffic coming out of the junction opposite to turn without hitting the car.

Hang on, you parked on the kerb so as not to block traffic exiting a junction?? What were you doing parking where you would potentially block traffic exiting a junction anyway?

[falcemob]

mhussa said:

falcemob said: This made me think of my new neighbour who is from South Africa, he and his SA friends/relations tend to park at 90 degrees, right across the pavement blocking it completely, that way they can park two cars in the space of one although we have to walk in the road to get round them. They seem to have got away with it so far but no doubt they will get a ticket one day. I would certainly not defend footway parking to that extent. Maybe telling them politely that it could get a ticket would be a nice gesture they may appreciate it. If they don't then certainly ticket/drag it away/whatever. In my defence the traffic warden picture shows the wheels on the kerbstone, and six foot's worth of pavement, AND the junction across the road (sigh).

I have already had to complain on two occasions about them using a hammer drill and knocking a wall down at 1am, I don't want to sound like a whinging neighbour.

[7db]

mhussa said:

7db said: Streaky - as you know there is no need for a law to be broken for a parking ticket to be issued. Especially in London. and especially when targets have to be met.

All the easier to hit target with so many people parking badly...

[pdV6]

Skipping back to the original post, why differentiate between Londoners and non-Londoners.
Its pretty much common knowledge that the default rule for the entire country is "no parking on pavements".
There are certain exceptions, but these are usually signed and painted on the footpath as reinforcement.

Yes, there are many places where common sense dictates that you have to park with wheels on the kerb in order to maintain traffic flow (the cul-de-sac where I live is a good example) but we all do it in the full knowledge that "officially" we're in the wrong.

I suspect the mistake you really made was standing out in a crowd. From what you describe, it seems that you would potentially have been the only one out of several parked cars that was on the kerb. Yes, you had your reasoning but I reckon the execution of it was a bit suspect to say the least. Had the entire street been lined up on the kerb, I doubt it would have been an issue...