Oct 2002 - Gov't response to to TRL 323
Discussion
You may all have seen this, however I am drafting a quick letter to my MP now as this is basically bollox 
having read TRL 323 this just Pisses me off.
www.roads.dft.gov.uk/roadsafety/rtspeed/pdf/cm5621.pdf
having read TRL 323 this just Pisses me off. www.roads.dft.gov.uk/roadsafety/rtspeed/pdf/cm5621.pdf
THE GOVERNMENT’S RESPONSE TO THE TRANSPORT, LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE REGIONS COMMITTEE’S REPORT ON ROAD
TRAFFIC SPEED
(a) Illegal and inappropriate speed is a major contributory factor in crashes
and casualties in both urban and rural areas.
The Government welcomes the Committee’s recognition of the effects of speed
on road accidents, fatalities and serious injuries. Those critical of speed
management often misquote or selectively quote from TRL Report 323 (A New
System for Recording Contributory Factors in Road Accidents) to argue that it is
wrong to claim that speed is a major crash and injury causation factor. However,
this TRL report has been persistently misquoted and used out of context. If the
report is read in its entirety, it clearly shows that the factors that comprise
driving at both excessive and inappropriate speed effectively confirm the one third
figure of speed being a contributory factor in road accidents. Further
published research by TRL and a wide range of other internationally respected
institutions confirms beyond doubt that excessive and inappropriate speed are
the major causes of crashes on our roads. Much of this research was noted in
the bibliography and references accompanying the Memorandum submitted to
the Committee by the DTLR.
This also annoys me - theyre correct in that 'inappropriate speed' causes some accidents - but what i dislike is that the government then translate that as 'speed is ALWAYS inappropriate'.
What we need is not draconian speed limit enforcement but better driver training - something like 80% (IIRC) of accidents are shunts, ie, someone going into the back of someone else - why? becuase they were driving too close most likely. I know i now spend more of my time gazing at the speedo in an effort to ensure i dont exceed the posted limit - this cant be healthy as obviously the more time im looking at the dash, the less im concentrating on the road ahead! This 'speed kills' campaigning also instills in people that 'if youre not speeding, youre safe' - the number of people ive seen driving too close, with fogs on, erratically etc is ridiculous - but im sure they think theyre safe, as theyre not speeding. Also, now that the weather has taken a turn for the worse, it will be interesting to see how many people continue to stick to 60mph despite the road being strewn with thick ice - why? Because theyre safe, because the little round speed limit signs says they are.
All IMHO of course.
What we need is not draconian speed limit enforcement but better driver training - something like 80% (IIRC) of accidents are shunts, ie, someone going into the back of someone else - why? becuase they were driving too close most likely. I know i now spend more of my time gazing at the speedo in an effort to ensure i dont exceed the posted limit - this cant be healthy as obviously the more time im looking at the dash, the less im concentrating on the road ahead! This 'speed kills' campaigning also instills in people that 'if youre not speeding, youre safe' - the number of people ive seen driving too close, with fogs on, erratically etc is ridiculous - but im sure they think theyre safe, as theyre not speeding. Also, now that the weather has taken a turn for the worse, it will be interesting to see how many people continue to stick to 60mph despite the road being strewn with thick ice - why? Because theyre safe, because the little round speed limit signs says they are.
All IMHO of course.
Inappropriate speed is the real issue here. We all get on our high horses here about speed cameras, and rightly so, when they are located in money generating locations. I bet there are few here who would argue against them outside schools and at genuine accident blackspots.
However, speed cameras will not catch the numpties sitting 3 feet of your bumber at 60 mph, or overtake in stupid places, or just drive dangerously. These people are caught by the police, when they are out on the road. So if the police were out watching the roads for numpties, we would have a reduction in accident stats because the numpties would be taken off the roads.
Get rid of the inappropriate speedsters and a large part of the problem will go away. Keep putting up speed camaeras and you alienate the majority of car drivers.
Rant over.
However, speed cameras will not catch the numpties sitting 3 feet of your bumber at 60 mph, or overtake in stupid places, or just drive dangerously. These people are caught by the police, when they are out on the road. So if the police were out watching the roads for numpties, we would have a reduction in accident stats because the numpties would be taken off the roads.
Get rid of the inappropriate speedsters and a large part of the problem will go away. Keep putting up speed camaeras and you alienate the majority of car drivers.
Rant over.
It takes approximately 0.8 seconds to look at your speedo, register the speed, and then look back to the road.
If you check your speedo every, say 3 minutes(conservative estimate) then that equates to 16 seconds in every hour that your NOT looking where youre going.
On a 3 hour journey that would be 48 seconds not looking where youre going!
Thats just a conservative guess, the figures are most likely a hell of a lot higher.
No matter that youre doing 20mph, you still are not seeing where youre going!
Wheres the safety in that?
If you check your speedo every, say 3 minutes(conservative estimate) then that equates to 16 seconds in every hour that your NOT looking where youre going.
On a 3 hour journey that would be 48 seconds not looking where youre going!
Thats just a conservative guess, the figures are most likely a hell of a lot higher.
No matter that youre doing 20mph, you still are not seeing where youre going!
Wheres the safety in that?
deltaf said: It takes approximately 0.8 seconds to look at your speedo, register the speed, and then look back to the road.
If you check your speedo every, say 3 minutes(conservative estimate) then that equates to 16 seconds in every hour that your NOT looking where youre going.
On a 3 hour journey that would be 48 seconds not looking where youre going!
Thats just a conservative guess, the figures are most likely a hell of a lot higher.
No matter that youre doing 20mph, you still are not seeing where youre going!
Wheres the safety in that?
More like every 20-30 seconds .......
Can we just stop for a moment before we have the same tired old debate about speeding versus inappropriate speed.
We *know*.
The point of this is that TRL323 was never ever comissioned from TRL by the Department for Transport as a study of causality of accidents. It was comissioned as an exploration of the way in which causes of RTA are recorded.
The Department for Transport are guilty of commissioning a report for one thing and misrepresenting the findings for an entirely other purpose. This is the bnub of the matter.
The TRL have been put in a crappy position by the DfT and the media are lynching the TRL for the misdeeds of the DfT & government overall.
We *know*.
The point of this is that TRL323 was never ever comissioned from TRL by the Department for Transport as a study of causality of accidents. It was comissioned as an exploration of the way in which causes of RTA are recorded.
The Department for Transport are guilty of commissioning a report for one thing and misrepresenting the findings for an entirely other purpose. This is the bnub of the matter.
The TRL have been put in a crappy position by the DfT and the media are lynching the TRL for the misdeeds of the DfT & government overall.
deltaf said: It takes approximately 0.8 seconds to look at your speedo, register the speed, and then look back to the road.
If you check your speedo every, say 3 minutes(conservative estimate) then that equates to 16 seconds in every hour that your NOT looking where youre going.
On a 3 hour journey that would be 48 seconds not looking where youre going!
Thats just a conservative guess, the figures are most likely a hell of a lot higher.
No matter that youre doing 20mph, you still are not seeing where youre going!
Wheres the safety in that?
The ADAC did some research on concentration while driving and the results were horrifying. When they put a driver in a position where limits were enforced in a draconian manner the ROAD concentration fell by at least 50%, in some (numpty) cases over 85%.
Speed limits CAUSE accidents!
I can only confirm this.... driving at my choice of speed on a road whether 130mph or 30mph, (and not being lulled to sleep by some totally irresponsible facetious speed limit,) I'm concentrating more and drive better. Doing 70mph (with cruise control) I'm just about falling asleep within 10 minutes! Slightly exagerated to make the poinT!!!
I have asked the DOT number of questions relaling to driving and the responce is a load of B
s
below is an extract from an e-mail i recieved a couple of weeks ago.
Excessive speed is the biggest contributory factor in road accidents. This is clearly supported by the TRL Report "A New System for Recording Contributory Factors in Accidents" TRL Report 323.The report examined both overall and critical factors in road accidents using a standard report system in eight police forces around the country.
I aint letting them get away with that an email has been returned asking for evidence etc i'll let you Know if i get a reply but dont hold your breath
P.S if you ask TRL how they come up with their percentage (i.e evidence) the TRUE rate is below 5% you can read the ABD's responce on the link below
www.abd.org.uk/pr/195.htm
>> Edited by pies on Wednesday 11th December 15:14
s below is an extract from an e-mail i recieved a couple of weeks ago.
Excessive speed is the biggest contributory factor in road accidents. This is clearly supported by the TRL Report "A New System for Recording Contributory Factors in Accidents" TRL Report 323.The report examined both overall and critical factors in road accidents using a standard report system in eight police forces around the country.
I aint letting them get away with that an email has been returned asking for evidence etc i'll let you Know if i get a reply but dont hold your breath
P.S if you ask TRL how they come up with their percentage (i.e evidence) the TRUE rate is below 5% you can read the ABD's responce on the link below
www.abd.org.uk/pr/195.htm
>> Edited by pies on Wednesday 11th December 15:14
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