How is this for police response time...
Discussion
www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006050295,00.html
The Sun said:
A MOTORIST was hit with an £80 fine — for giving a speed camera the finger.
Simon Thompson, 41, made the middle finger curse when he spotted the mobile camera as he drove home from work WITHIN the speed limit.
He was stunned half an hour later when the two cops who had been operating the device knocked on his door — and handed him a fixed penalty notice for making offensive gestures under the Public Order Act.
Last night furious clerk Simon accused police in Colchester, Essex, of a vendetta against motorists.
He said his case was absurdly trivial compared to an attack at the town’s St Benedict’s college a few days earlier.
The school’s headmaster slammed cops for failing to react quickly enough when a staff member was battered by hoodie thugs who gatecrashed an exam.
Simon, who was travelling at less than 30mph on a single carriageway, said: “I accept what I did was foolish and it wasn’t my finest hour. But this shows the police have got their priorities completely wrong.
“I wasn’t giving the officers the finger, I was aiming my anger at the camera. I’ve got as much contempt for speed cameras as everyone else. I’m a careful driver. My licence has been clean for ten years.”
Referring to the school incident, Simon added: “A teacher gets attacked by thugs and by the time the police get there they’ve all scarpered. Yet they pursue me to my own front door for making a gesture at an inanimate object.”
Essex Police said: “The man received the fine because he was seen to gesture several times to officers operating a mobile speed camera in an obscene and offensive way.”
Yeah yeah yeah - I was just wryly commenting on the text of the article...
However, rights and wrongs of flipping the bird to a talivan aside, how is it in the public's benefit for the operators of a (so-called) "safety camera" to abandon their post and literally pursue somebody home for something this trivial? Beggars belief.
However, rights and wrongs of flipping the bird to a talivan aside, how is it in the public's benefit for the operators of a (so-called) "safety camera" to abandon their post and literally pursue somebody home for something this trivial? Beggars belief.
jamesson said:If we are grown ups we can cope with being called rude names or having people wiggling a finger at us mischeviously from a car. Handing out fines like this makes the Police look childish and petty. It reduces the public's respect for the police. It is therefore counter productive. If by trying to enforce respect for the police one's actions actually undermine respect for the police, I'd say that is incompetence.
So how are they incompetent for upholding the law when it's their job to do so? And how would you like people flicking the middle finger at you?
The bottom line is surely this: why on earth in a free society ought I not be allowed to flick the Vs at the Police? What harm does it do?
>> Edited by ATG on Wednesday 1st February 16:22
jamesson said:That would be for a court of law to prove "beyond reasonable doubt". Would be interesting to see how petty the CPS actually are, but on recent evidence I suspect I already know.
As it was a mobile camera, I'm assuming there were officers in attendance. And how are they to know he's giving the finger to the camera and not to them? And how are we to know he actually WASN'T giving the officers the finger and is now just covering up?
£80 - easy money for them. Guess they didn't catch enough massmurderers, sorry speeders that morning.
I dont give manned cameras the bird - no point in aggravating them into inventing a speed for me. As for unmanned cameras, why bother as noone will see it anyway (unless you're a kid in a stolen car thinking they're clever). Thus I draw the conclusion this guy did really mean to give the cops the finger but is bound to say what he said.
I dont give manned cameras the bird - no point in aggravating them into inventing a speed for me. As for unmanned cameras, why bother as noone will see it anyway (unless you're a kid in a stolen car thinking they're clever). Thus I draw the conclusion this guy did really mean to give the cops the finger but is bound to say what he said.
Personally, I'd refuse to accept the ticket. Surprised it was issued at the door, in my force Penalty Notices for Disorder can only be issued from custody. Then the Officer would have to report you and complete a file, which he probably wouldn't be arsed to do. Get summons, plead guilty by post and the fine will probably be less than £80. Well it usually was when we put scrotes up for Drunk/Disorderly etc... and they got fined £20 by the useless cretinous lay bench.
jamesson said:Interesting point. This morning a police car parked on the yellow zig-zags outside my childrens school. This was when the children were being dropped off to make matters worse. There were other parking places available on a single yellow where he wouldn't obstruct the view of the children, but he chose to park on the zig-zags. Now I considered reporting him but couldn't be arsed as I knew it would just be aggravation for me. But in hindsight, perhaps I shouldn't have tolerated it after all.
If you tolerate something it becomes acceptable. Raising the middle finger to police is not acceptable and deserves to be punished. Would you tolerate it if a police officer raised his or her middle finger to you?
jamesson said:Merely making a point about tolerance. Arrest is unlikely as it's a primary school in a reasonable area. Whatever the circumstances, it was bad PR. Doesn't help that parking on zig-zags at drop off time is one of my personal pet
Neither of us know the circs, but he could have been going to arrest someone in which case you want the car parked as close as you can to the house/building. If you feel strongly about it and don't believe it should be tolerated, report it. It's your right to do so. Who knows, perhaps you'll change something. Nothing will get changed by sitting on your ar$e.
sjamesson said:I don't see the two cases as equivalent. The Police are paid to do a job. Regularly giving the public the finger would undermine their ability to do that job. Once a policeman takes off his uniform, he can feel free to flick the Vs at me, if he thinks it is a good way of expressing himself.
If you tolerate something it becomes acceptable. Raising the middle finger to police is not acceptable and deserves to be punished. Would you tolerate it if a police officer raised his or her middle finger to you?
You may not like something, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be tollerated. A free society only prohibits behaviour that causes others real harm. Where is the harm in flicking the Vs at a policeman out of a car window?
Obviously there are occaisions where expressing your opinions to the Police may need to be curtailed if it is seriously risking a breakdown of public order, e.g. if a drunken argument is about to get out of hand. But would anyone claim that a motorist flicking the Vs is risking a breakdown of public order?
I see no reason to try to protect the police or anyone else from other people's speech except in extreme cases. Dishing out a fine is an extreme reaction to this trivial act. As you can see from some of the reactions in this thread it actively undermines respect for the police and their judgement.
jamesson said:
monkeyhanger - disobeying lawful orders from superior officers would result in docked pay and potentially dismissal. I doubt few are willing to risk their job/pension/house to be a martyr. I certainly wouldn't. Would you?
Actually yes, i have refused to carry out duties i consider unsafe, not part of my job or simply wrong.
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