Insurance and car being stolen through obtaining keys...
Discussion
Last nights Car Wars prompted a bit of a discussion between friends.
Briefly I was explaining why we ALWAYS leave cars keys on the hall table so that if we are visited by a couple of balaclava wearning monkeys they can take the keys and feck off.
Some friends were saying that they'd been told by their insurance that if they didn't safeguard their keys (they were actually recommended to take their keys to bed with them!) that their insurance could be invalid in the event of theft.
Is this right?
Briefly I was explaining why we ALWAYS leave cars keys on the hall table so that if we are visited by a couple of balaclava wearning monkeys they can take the keys and feck off.
Some friends were saying that they'd been told by their insurance that if they didn't safeguard their keys (they were actually recommended to take their keys to bed with them!) that their insurance could be invalid in the event of theft.
Is this right?
Dont leave your keys on view on a hall table!
Make sure you have adequate locks on your downstairs doors and windows. Make sure your letter box has a guard over it so that nothing can be poked through (other than post) and fasten the cat flap. If you have an alarm set it when you go to bed and put your keys somewhere where they are not accessible.
If you leave keys accessible and they disappear, you may have a problem with any claim you make when the fishing rod method is used to retrieve them through your letter box or cat flap!
If you are one of the very few people who have a break in especially for the keys to your car and you are woken up and the intruder/s demand them, then it might be an idea to surrender them and I think you will find most insurers will accept the situation!
Make sure you have adequate locks on your downstairs doors and windows. Make sure your letter box has a guard over it so that nothing can be poked through (other than post) and fasten the cat flap. If you have an alarm set it when you go to bed and put your keys somewhere where they are not accessible.
If you leave keys accessible and they disappear, you may have a problem with any claim you make when the fishing rod method is used to retrieve them through your letter box or cat flap!
If you are one of the very few people who have a break in especially for the keys to your car and you are woken up and the intruder/s demand them, then it might be an idea to surrender them and I think you will find most insurers will accept the situation!
mg6b said:
Dont leave your keys on view on a hall table!
Make sure you have adequate locks on your downstairs doors and windows. Make sure your letter box has a guard over it so that nothing can be poked through (other than post) and fasten the cat flap. If you have an alarm set it when you go to bed and put your keys somewhere where they are not accessible.
If you leave keys accessible and they disappear, you may have a problem with any claim you make when the fishing rod method is used to retrieve them through your letter box or cat flap!
If you are one of the very few people who have a break in especially for the keys to your car and you are woken up and the intruder/s demand them, then it might be an idea to surrender them and I think you will find most insurers will accept the situation!
They are out of "fishing" reach but they are most certainly left where someone who broke into the house would be able to spot them and take them - the idea being we don't want to be woken up in bed by intruders and have to get into a threat/surrender situation (for which there'd only be one outcome if they were after the car(s) - surrender).
In this instance, what's the likely response from the insurers?
neil.b said:
In this instance, what's the likely response from the insurers?
I'm sure that insurance companies wouldn't encourage putting yourself at risk. After all that is surely one of the risks that you are paying to insure against. Leaving keys where they are accessible to an intruder who is already in your home sounds like the safest policy.
>> Edited by stone on Thursday 16th February 09:59
This is an issue that has always worried me. On the one hand we are bombarded by people saying that we must not give the crims an easy ride and to hide all your keys, take them to bed with you, lock them in a safe, etc and on the other we have a dramatic rise in violent crime and burglars carrying weapons and willing to use them! To be awoken by a noise, that probably woke my three year old a moment before me, and find that some scrote is now threatening her with a knife because he cannot find my car keys is many times more scary than discovering that my car is missing in the morning! I can understand that the car insurance company is not interested in my personal health and would probably prefer it if I was stabbed and did not hand over my keys (no claim on he car insurance!) but the reality must be personal safety first mustn’t it? My mother always believed that you had to make it to difficult for the opportunistic smash and grabs to break in but not so difficult that you annoyed the professional who was going to get in anyway! She had relatives who turned their home into Fort Knox and the professional burglar got in anyway and vandalised all the antiques and sentimental stuff before making off with the really valuable stuff. In her mind the sentimental value of her property, and the extra angst caused by petty vindictive damage, easily outweighed the cost of replacing electrical goods and other high value low bulk items, i.e. those likely to be stolen. And all the high value high sentimental stuff, normally jewellery, was hidden as well, normally by my father who then forgot where it was and spent the next two weeks looking for it!
My best defence is a pair of dogs! They are lovely (my setter would probably show the burglar round for a fuss!) but they will bark if someone/something disturbs them at night and that will always put off an intruder IMHO.
Apologies for the long rambling post!
My best defence is a pair of dogs! They are lovely (my setter would probably show the burglar round for a fuss!) but they will bark if someone/something disturbs them at night and that will always put off an intruder IMHO.
Apologies for the long rambling post!
Plotloss said:
Fact of life #249
If insurers can get out of paying, they will.
Very true.
I think a line has to be drawn though. They can't realistically expect you to fight over your car keys when in the end (a) you'll probably lose, (b) they'll still get the car and (c) you could probably end up in court charged with assault.
Then again, there's no comeback for them whatever the circumstances so on reflection, yes, they probably do hope you'll sacrafice your safety.
Ah the million dollar question. Why not ask them if they have guidelines on this subject they will share with you. That might sort out the wheat from the chaff!
Not all companies are the same and it's very easy to tar all of them as bad, bit like dodgy estate agents or overcharging builders.
I would be horrified if I ever learnt we had turned down such a claim.
Richard
Not all companies are the same and it's very easy to tar all of them as bad, bit like dodgy estate agents or overcharging builders.
I would be horrified if I ever learnt we had turned down such a claim.
Richard
Surely if there's evidence of a break-in, there's no argument about you having been negligent in looking after the keys? They would have to pay up, no questions asked.
If, however, they managed to get the keys without damaging the house, then there's an argument you didn't look after your property "as if it was not insured" and they'd baulk at paying out.
If, however, they managed to get the keys without damaging the house, then there's an argument you didn't look after your property "as if it was not insured" and they'd baulk at paying out.
I always thought (I don't do this mind) that if your place is unlocked, but you are in, then the insurance would be valid ???
Personally my car keys are in my room at night, but not hidden.
In my place, in the case of burglers, the rules are "there are no rules" ... My thoughts are simple, beat the **** out of them and drag them outside - no officer, never seen him before
Personally my car keys are in my room at night, but not hidden.
In my place, in the case of burglers, the rules are "there are no rules" ... My thoughts are simple, beat the **** out of them and drag them outside - no officer, never seen him before
You should be insuring your car from being stolen. Why does it matter how the keys were stolen?
This is exactly the problem today, the blame is always on the bloody victim. Can't have a dog to eat intruders, can't beat up intruders, can't leave your property safely in your house without worrying about "intruders"...
Insure everything, lock your door, but still worrying about intruders!
Insurers who don't cover theft, no matter how they got the keys, should be banned from providing insurance. Why is the owner responsible for the illegal actions of others, no matter how they managed to perpetrate it?
OK, there is a duty of care, but how is that defined?
Cars on hall table? Not enough?
On kitchen hooks, necessitating a break and entry? Not enough?
Take them to bed? Not enough?
Fight to defend them?
Where is the line? Surely by defining "duty of care" your leaving yourself open to the insurers interpretation, and enabling them to get out of paying?
Should be "car stolen by whatever means, ie, not taken with consent" == STOLEN...
Dave
This is exactly the problem today, the blame is always on the bloody victim. Can't have a dog to eat intruders, can't beat up intruders, can't leave your property safely in your house without worrying about "intruders"...
Insure everything, lock your door, but still worrying about intruders!
Insurers who don't cover theft, no matter how they got the keys, should be banned from providing insurance. Why is the owner responsible for the illegal actions of others, no matter how they managed to perpetrate it?
OK, there is a duty of care, but how is that defined?
Cars on hall table? Not enough?
On kitchen hooks, necessitating a break and entry? Not enough?
Take them to bed? Not enough?
Fight to defend them?
Where is the line? Surely by defining "duty of care" your leaving yourself open to the insurers interpretation, and enabling them to get out of paying?
Should be "car stolen by whatever means, ie, not taken with consent" == STOLEN...
Dave
mph999 said:
I always thought (I don't do this mind) that if your place is unlocked, but you are in, then the insurance would be valid ???
Personally my car keys are in my room at night, but not hidden.
In my place, in the case of burglers, the rules are "there are no rules" ... My thoughts are simple, beat the **** out of them and drag them outside - no officer, never seen him before
I agree entirely and I am 6'2" tall, a rugby player and studied a bit of self-defence (I also know where all the large bits of wood etc are in the house) so am not personally too bothered. My daughter, however, is 3 ½ years old and my wife, currently pregnant, is only 4’11” and very slight. The thought that they might be the first ones to fond an intruder do alter my opinion slightly. My keys are kept downstairs on a key holder but are out of sight form all of the windows and cannot be reached without breaking something to get in. I just don’t want them to come upstairs it’s as simple as that. The television and the stereo are also downstairs so there should be no need. The dogs might put them off though!
In 1994 I was part of a project team which included people from 5 Lucas Sites to design an Antitheft solenoid for the Million a year DPC Desiel Pump, to meet the upcoming imobiliser regulations. During the Project Launch meeting (a 4 day affair) I suggested that coming back to find an empty parking space, was preferrable to coming back to find a scrote with knife - politely asking for the keys/ or code. I predicted (after a couple of glasses of wine) that car jackings would go up.
I'd rather my car was taken and NEVER seen again.
I'd rather my car was taken and NEVER seen again.
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