Queries re. Fixed Penalty notice

[WWESTY]

This is going to be a bit long winded but hopefully the detail will help...

Wife got stopped at 11.30pm on 23rd December last year - zapped at 37 in 30 zone. She was flagged down, no police car in sight. Copper then walks up road, from where he was hiding, with speed gun in hand and tells her how he's zapped her. Reckons they are having purge in area (wouldn't disagree as the road is like a race track but why not be there in the day when its more dangerous???). Left WPC to take details while he made mobile phone call to his sarge to say that they had "got one". WPC seemed very inexperienced (called my wife "sir" , didn't have a watch, had to ask what the car was - only a small BMW badge on it.. - and then argued with my wife that she needed to produce an MOT when the car is only 6 months old...) and actuallly filled out FPN incorrectly by striking through section for licence details when they were to be presented at later date. While taking details, 3 or 4 cars passed at speeds nearer 50mph and of course nothing done about them.

Anyway, wife took licence to local station as required and officer on desk told her that

a) as a lone woman at night, since it wasn't clear that it was the police flagging her down, she shouldn't have stopped and

b) pointed out paperwork was wrong so

c) she should appeal

Sent appeal letter.

Just received standard letter this morning saying that case has been examined but no change - pay up and take the points...

Only alternative is to take to Court where she risks heftier fine. She has clean licence at the moment so no real issue with the points, but, understandably feels very aggrieved with the way she was treated.

Is there any time requirement in this sort of case and have they complied with it?

Any other observations/views?

Many Thanks



>> Edited by WWESTY on Friday 17th February 10:52

[WWESTY]

[F348]

It may well be worth a punt at court, both the PC and the inexperienced WPC will need to present evidence and be subject to cross-examination. Any half-decent solicitor should be able to tie her in knots so much that reasonable doubt must exist. Her evidence will probably not agree with the PC's and almost certainly not with the paper evidence of the completed forms.

[mg6b]

WWESTY said:

.... and actuallly filled out FPN incorrectly by striking through section for licence details when they were to be presented at later date.

You state that this has been examined by the FP office! They are obviously happy the form was filled in without any errors regarding the facts about the offence!

WWESTY said:

While taking details, 3 or 4 cars passed at speeds nearer 50mph and of course nothing done about them.

A standard comment when dealing with someone who has run out of luck!
"What about that one and that one and that one then?" is a usual comment.
'Its not fair' is the sentiment behind those remarks.

WWESTY said:

Anyway, wife took licence to local station as required and officer on desk told her that a) as a lone woman at night, since it wasn't clear that it was the police flagging her down, she shouldn't have stopped and

??? How was it not clear? Had she failed to stop she could have become l;iable to arrest. This is an offence with a specific power of arrest prior to SOCAP 2006. It is no different to ANY offence at all that now have a power of arrest attached under above Act.

WWESTY said:

b) pointed out paperwork was wrong so c) she should appeal Sent appeal letter. Just received standard letter this morning saying that case has been examined but no change - pay up and take the points...

The choice is now up to your wife! She has an opportunity to challenge the facts in court. Whinging about being alone and unclear it was the police will not impress a bench of magistrates. Neither will pointing out that sveral other drivers 'got away with it' whislt she was being processed.

WWESTY said:

Only alternative is to take to Court where she risks heftier fine. She has clean licence at the moment so no real issue with the points, but, understandably feels very aggrieved with the way she was treated.

Sour grapes perhaps?
Pinged by a 'Rooky' and that is why it is not fair?

WWESTY said:

Is there any time requirement in this sort of case and have they complied with it? Any other observations/views? Many Thanks

For speeding offences an NIP must be delivered. This can be in documentary form or verbally at the time. An NIP is the words " You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for....."

It is normal under these circumstances to give the NIP verbally at the time the offence is committed in conjunction with the 'caution' ("You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence etc...".

It can be given up to 14 days after the date of the offence by letter or verbally. Those are the only time limits regarding the process and documentation at the time of the offence. If your wife decides to ask to be dealt with by a court, then the Crown have 6 months from date of offence in which to lay the information (details for a summons before a court). After that the requiriement is met and the summons can be served years later if your wife become difficult to find!

I hope that helps!

[WWESTY]

mg6b said:

WWESTY said: .... and actuallly filled out FPN incorrectly by striking through section for licence details when they were to be presented at later date. You state that this has been examined by the FP office! They are obviously happy the form was filled in without any errors regarding the facts about the offence! And I also stated that it was the desk officer at the local Police Station who observed that the document was incorrectly completed..... WWESTY said: While taking details, 3 or 4 cars passed at speeds nearer 50mph and of course nothing done about them. A standard comment when dealing with someone who has run out of luck! "What about that one and that one and that one then?" is a usual comment. 'Its not fair' is the sentiment behind those remarks. OK, that's a fair comment....however, when you are told that they are "cracking down on speeding in the area - something that we would fully support when you see the way that traffic goes up and down the road during the day - it is somewhat annoying to see such dangerous driving...... WWESTY said: Anyway, wife took licence to local station as required and officer on desk told her that a) as a lone woman at night, since it wasn't clear that it was the police flagging her down, she shouldn't have stopped and ??? How was it not clear? Had she failed to stop she could have become l;iable to arrest. This is an offence with a specific power of arrest prior to SOCAP 2006. It is no different to ANY offence at all that now have a power of arrest attached under above Act. WWESTY said: Policewoman flagged down car at 11.30 at night (dark), no evidence of police car (hidden down side road) and no evidence of officer "zapping" her.... The choice is now up to your wife! She has an opportunity to challenge the facts in court. Whinging about being alone and unclear it was the police will not impress a bench of magistrates. Neither will pointing out that sveral other drivers 'got away with it' whislt she was being processed. WWESTY said: Only alternative is to take to Court where she risks heftier fine. She has clean licence at the moment so no real issue with the points, but, understandably feels very aggrieved with the way she was treated. Sour grapes perhaps? Pinged by a 'Rooky' and that is why it is not fair? WWESTY said: nope, absolutely no sour grapes nor worried about "Rooky"'s....quite simple, you expect someone to know what they are doing, and given that they are "the law" you would expect them to know "the law"....is that unfair? Any other observations/views? Many Thanks For speeding offences an NIP must be delivered. This can be in documentary form or verbally at the time. An NIP is the words " You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for....." It is normal under these circumstances to give the NIP verbally at the time the offence is committed in conjunction with the 'caution' ("You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence etc...". It can be given up to 14 days after the date of the offence by letter or verbally. Those are the only time limits regarding the process and documentation at the time of the offence. If your wife decides to ask to be dealt with by a court, then the Crown have 6 months from date of offence in which to lay the information (details for a summons before a court). After that the requiriement is met and the summons can be served years later if your wife become difficult to find! I hope that helps!

Hope that helps to clarify....and thanks for the input....




>> Edited by WWESTY on Friday 17th February 14:51

>> Edited by WWESTY on Friday 17th February 14:55