Which driver was it.

[slim_boy_fat]

Yet another speeding question.

Just got an NIP through last week, thing is not sure if it was myself or the wife who was driving.

I am going to send the NIP back with a letter asking for a photograph to aid identification.

What happens if i cant id the driver from the pic?

Surely i cant just take a guess at the driver, as if its wrong then I will have suppled a false statment.

Hypothetical i suppose as the pic might come back with the driver clear as a bell.

Cheers

[Mr Whippy]

Well if it does, then name the driver, but use the PACE letter thingy. Then they don't have anything to use as evidence in court to convict do they?

Then you can go along and ask for proof of calibration etc etc... Even if it costs you £500 who cares, money can be replaced with work, principle's can't!

Dave

[Cooperman]

If the photo doesn't show who was driving and you don't know you must tell them that. They will probably respond with a letter telling you that you must know and if you don't name someone then you'll be prosecuted. Perhaps you should reply by stating that clearly your car broke a speed limit and a fine is due. However, since you genuinly don't know, both you and your wife will plead guilty and pay the £60 each, unless they tell you from whom they choose to receive the confession and give a written indemnity for you and your wife from prosecution for perversion of the course of justice should evidence ever come to light showing that the confession has come from the wrong person. Ask them if they have any further and better evidence which could help you.
If you both drive the vehicle regularly along the road where the camera was located and the photo is not definitive then in theory you have a good defence. It depends on how strong you are in resisting the demands.

[slim_boy_fat]

Mr Whippy said:

Well if it does, then name the driver, but use the PACE letter thingy. Then they don't have anything to use as evidence in court to convict do they? Then you can go along and ask for proof of calibration etc etc... Even if it costs you £500 who cares, money can be replaced with work, principle's can't! Dave

Thanks, can i PM you with my address etc so you can send me the cheque for £500.

I think you should rephrase your statment "money can be replaced by work, principles can't, especially if its not my money!!"

[SS2.]

slim_boy_fat - YHM..

[puggit]

This is known as the 'Hamilton Defence' after the celebrity seeking couple who won in court with this defence.

Google for it and have a look at www.pepipoo.com also

Good Luck!

[Mr Whippy]

slim_boy_fat said:

Mr Whippy said: Well if it does, then name the driver, but use the PACE letter thingy. Then they don't have anything to use as evidence in court to convict do they? Then you can go along and ask for proof of calibration etc etc... Even if it costs you £500 who cares, money can be replaced with work, principle's can't! Dave Thanks, can i PM you with my address etc so you can send me the cheque for £500. I think you should rephrase your statment "money can be replaced by work, principles can't, especially if its not my money!!"

Oh hahaha, haha, ha.

OK, accept 3 points, and notice how with the £60 fine, and a few years of raised insurance premium you soon add up £500 here and there.

Again, if you just lay on your belly they will make you pay, thats the whole point!

Dave

[slim_boy_fat]

SS2. said:

slim_boy_fat - YHM..

Cheers

I might be up for a fight but i am not sure the wife would.

I fear 3 pts and £60 fine might be the easy way...

>> Edited by slim_boy_fat on Tuesday 21st February 20:04

[lunarscope]

Who´s the ´Registered Keeper´. If you received the NIP then it´s nothing to do with your wife , unless you named her as the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

[slim_boy_fat]

lunarscope said:

Who´s the ´Registered Keeper´. If you received the NIP then it´s nothing to do with your wife , unless you named her as the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

I think your missing the point.

[cptsideways]

lunarscope said:

Who´s the ´Registered Keeper´. If you received the NIP then it´s nothing to do with your wife , unless you named her as the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

The registered keeper is not always the driver, nor always the owner. So if they send the NIP to the RK how can they be sure they've got the right person?

[Dwight VanDriver]

Section 172 RTA 88 - duty to give information as to identity of driver etc.

Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence to which the section applies and that includes speeding, the person KEEPING the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as he may be required to give by or on behalf of the Chief of Police... fails to do so shall be guilty of an offence unless he did not know or could not with reasonable diligence have ascertianined who the driver was.

So first line of attack is the person who is registered as the Keeper at DVLA. I presume this is on the presumption as a Keeper is thge most likely one to know or who can find out who a driver was.

Bear in mind also if they get to know that ANYBODY has such information they can serve them too with a A172 request and that could be far reaching?

dvd

[stone]

I recently had a similar situation. The photo they sent provided little help. I ended up in magistates court and found guilty with 3 points and a £250 fine. The magistrate explained that due to the fact that I had received the original NIP within 10 days of the offence I should have been able to remember who was driving Proceed with caution. With hindsight I would have been far better off accepting the 3 points and £60 fine regardless of who was driving. I think the decision on the verdict had been made before I arrived at the court irrelevant of any evidence presented.

[Boosted Ls1]

It's certainly worth sitting on the NIP for as long as possible before sending it back.

Boosted.

[slim_boy_fat]

stone said:

I recently had a similar situation. The photo they sent provided little help. I ended up in magistates court and found guilty with 3 points and a £250 fine. The magistrate explained that due to the fact that I had received the original NIP within 10 days of the offence I should have been able to remember who was driving Proceed with caution. With hindsight I would have been far better off accepting the 3 points and £60 fine regardless of who was driving. I think the decision on the verdict had been made before I arrived at the court irrelevant of any evidence presented.

Cheers, points it is then.