recieved NIP today . . 4 months late!!
Discussion
Recieved NIP today, dated 27/02/06 for an alleged offence on 10/10/05 . . . just slightly over the 14 day time limit!!
The offence was for 36 in a 30, A422 farthinghoe . . . don't even know where farthinghoe is, and I'm pretty sure neither my missus or myself would have had any business going through there so I think there may be a mistake.
What should I do - file it in the bin, or ring them up . . .
The offence was for 36 in a 30, A422 farthinghoe . . . don't even know where farthinghoe is, and I'm pretty sure neither my missus or myself would have had any business going through there so I think there may be a mistake.
What should I do - file it in the bin, or ring them up . . .
If you are the registered owner of the vehicle mentioned, congratulations NOIP timed out unless there are grounds for SCP to show due diligence in attempting to serve.
If not confirm with Reg Owner that they did not receive NOIP within 15 days of the offence. If they did then the NOIP is valid.
By the sound of it could be they have recorded an incorrect number. As it remains an offence not to action the S172 request for drivers details by binning the form, even if it wasn't you, I would recommend contact with issuing SCP to clarify matters. If they persist then ask for a photo.
dvd
If not confirm with Reg Owner that they did not receive NOIP within 15 days of the offence. If they did then the NOIP is valid.
By the sound of it could be they have recorded an incorrect number. As it remains an offence not to action the S172 request for drivers details by binning the form, even if it wasn't you, I would recommend contact with issuing SCP to clarify matters. If they persist then ask for a photo.
dvd
It means that in some circumstances (your address not up to date at DVLA, change of ownership near time of offence etc etc), the SCP may have tried to serve the notice in good faith and not been able to for certain reasons. In these rare and special circs, their 14 days will have been met by first attempt at service.
As DVD has pointed out, you have a legal requirement under S.172 to provide details of the driver at the time of the alleged offence. Failure to do so would render you liable for prosecution which, if convicted, would give you a fine of 250-350 quid, 3 pips on your licence and an insurance hiking MS90 conviction...
Play this right though and you shoud be able to hit timeout without breaking into a sweat..
The offence date was 10.10.2005. The alleged speeding offence will 'timeout' on 10.04.2006 ie the date by which the SCP have to lay the (speeding) information with the court.
You have received a NIP / S.172 dated 27.02.2006 which gives you 28 days to respond ie by 27 March 2006.
Generally, calling the SCP is not the best suggested course of action, IMHO. I would be more inclined to write a letter, posted maybe 3 weeks into the 28 day period pointing out the lengthy delay between alleged offence and receipt of the NIP which has made it very difficult for you to remember who was driving at this time. Please could they supply photographic evidence to assist in identification of the driver.
All being well, they should send the photo(s) after a week or so.
Whilst there is nothing in statute to extend the 28 day period, most SCPs will extend by maybe a week. There is the slight risk that the SCP are on the ball and instigate proceedings for Failure to Furnish immediately after the 28 day period is up. IMO, this is more likely to happen if they suspect you are 'playing the game'. Hence no phone calls whch might flag your case or be unwittingly incriminating and keep any letters short and to the point..
Receipt of the photos should take you upto early April and with it, an additional 7 day response period. By this time, you should safely be able to return the NIP to arrive after Friday 7 April 2006. By doing this, you will have fulfilled your obligations under S.172 and will be immune from prosecution for the alleged speeding offence.. It will probably not stop the SCP trying it on and sending you a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty though (which you ignore)..
All the above IMHO, as always..
>> Edited by SS2. on Tuesday 28th February 20:16
Play this right though and you shoud be able to hit timeout without breaking into a sweat..
The offence date was 10.10.2005. The alleged speeding offence will 'timeout' on 10.04.2006 ie the date by which the SCP have to lay the (speeding) information with the court.
You have received a NIP / S.172 dated 27.02.2006 which gives you 28 days to respond ie by 27 March 2006.
Generally, calling the SCP is not the best suggested course of action, IMHO. I would be more inclined to write a letter, posted maybe 3 weeks into the 28 day period pointing out the lengthy delay between alleged offence and receipt of the NIP which has made it very difficult for you to remember who was driving at this time. Please could they supply photographic evidence to assist in identification of the driver.
All being well, they should send the photo(s) after a week or so.
Whilst there is nothing in statute to extend the 28 day period, most SCPs will extend by maybe a week. There is the slight risk that the SCP are on the ball and instigate proceedings for Failure to Furnish immediately after the 28 day period is up. IMO, this is more likely to happen if they suspect you are 'playing the game'. Hence no phone calls whch might flag your case or be unwittingly incriminating and keep any letters short and to the point..
Receipt of the photos should take you upto early April and with it, an additional 7 day response period. By this time, you should safely be able to return the NIP to arrive after Friday 7 April 2006. By doing this, you will have fulfilled your obligations under S.172 and will be immune from prosecution for the alleged speeding offence.. It will probably not stop the SCP trying it on and sending you a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty though (which you ignore)..
All the above IMHO, as always..
>> Edited by SS2. on Tuesday 28th February 20:16
Are SCP's that dumb SS2 that having a file open they do not put a marker on it with date of limitation on proceedings on it so that when it approaches they can lay an information in time?
When one of my gang were after a miscreant in order that when enquires were completed after time I took the precaution of having informations laid for the offences before hand so that they did not escape prosecution. Summons could then be taken out at leisure.
dvd
When one of my gang were after a miscreant in order that when enquires were completed after time I took the precaution of having informations laid for the offences before hand so that they did not escape prosecution. Summons could then be taken out at leisure.
dvd
The speed camera on that road is a Truvelo and its visible to all and sundry, partway thru the village. Im pretty sure youd have seen it as its got a big fluorescent panel on it and its positioned to take rear facing pics as well (iirc) as its aimed across the road.
Sounds like a cloner or another screw up by the "we dont make mistakes" scumerapartner skanks to me.
Id consider Filing it.
Sounds like a cloner or another screw up by the "we dont make mistakes" scumerapartner skanks to me.
Id consider Filing it.
Spoke to SCP today, said they had sent a NIP to my old address 8 days after alleged offence. . . . which was returned as I didnt live there anymore. DVLA then forwarded my new address to SCP, hence the delay in sending out the new NIP.
Thinking about playing the odds, saying we would like this to go to court, and see what happens. Do you think they would drop it for a 36 in a 30??
At what speeds to thy allow ("invite"
you to take part in a speed workshop??
>> Edited by PEVO on Wednesday 1st March 12:10
Thinking about playing the odds, saying we would like this to go to court, and see what happens. Do you think they would drop it for a 36 in a 30??
At what speeds to thy allow ("invite"
you to take part in a speed workshop?? >> Edited by PEVO on Wednesday 1st March 12:10
Sound like they've got you mate.
If you go to court, you'll have to plead guilty, as you clearly are.
They've served the NIP in time so no get out there.
They're not obligued to offer speeding courses,
What you could do is try for the 6months time out.
Continue stalling, ask for photos etc. Write letters, etc etc, tick tick tick.....
Then yo'll get a court summons when you elect.
Mags courts tend to book more cases than they can handle per day, so when a scrote doesn't attend they aren't left bored!
If everyone turns up, they work on a priority basis, and likely your case will be re-scheduled. With a bit of luck it'll time out, but I wouldn't put a any money on it.
It's a gamble. May pay off and you get away scot free, or you might get hammered with a bigger fine, more points, and massive insurance hike.
It's only 60 quid. - and yes I hate saying that!
If you go to court, you'll have to plead guilty, as you clearly are.
They've served the NIP in time so no get out there.
They're not obligued to offer speeding courses,
What you could do is try for the 6months time out.
Continue stalling, ask for photos etc. Write letters, etc etc, tick tick tick.....
Then yo'll get a court summons when you elect.
Mags courts tend to book more cases than they can handle per day, so when a scrote doesn't attend they aren't left bored!
If everyone turns up, they work on a priority basis, and likely your case will be re-scheduled. With a bit of luck it'll time out, but I wouldn't put a any money on it.
It's a gamble. May pay off and you get away scot free, or you might get hammered with a bigger fine, more points, and massive insurance hike.
It's only 60 quid. - and yes I hate saying that!
Another tact, which you may haev thought about, is that seems as the offence is now a long time ago, it will be very dificult for you to remeber who was driving, depending on what trip you were on at the time, which will mean it is easier to use that line. (As opposed to not knowing who was driving eight days ago if you got the original NIP).
Like above people have said, going down that route will delay and may take you over the 6 month limit also.
Like above people have said, going down that route will delay and may take you over the 6 month limit also.
my friend who actually works for a SCP informs me that they have software now that keeps a track of where they are re the 6 month period, and admits that in the 'old days' keeping quiet meant that 'quite a few' lots of paperwork just went in the bin.
Not so now, big red 24 point bold underlined fonts appear on the screen.
that said, considering the huge number of fines and limited number of staff, they are going to be pushing it.
You don't need to officially reply yet, which means they'll get the 'elect for court' on lets say 28th March. You can then ask to see the evidence against you, and I believe that they have to supply that AT LEAST 7 days before the court date.
The absolute last day for court would be Monday 10th April, so they must give you photos/video etc on or before Monday 3rd april.
Forget the weekend, it would need sorting on or before Friday 31st March.
So about 3 days to sort copies etc out, and rush you into the mags before 10th April.
pushing it!
Not so now, big red 24 point bold underlined fonts appear on the screen.
that said, considering the huge number of fines and limited number of staff, they are going to be pushing it.
You don't need to officially reply yet, which means they'll get the 'elect for court' on lets say 28th March. You can then ask to see the evidence against you, and I believe that they have to supply that AT LEAST 7 days before the court date.
The absolute last day for court would be Monday 10th April, so they must give you photos/video etc on or before Monday 3rd april.
Forget the weekend, it would need sorting on or before Friday 31st March.
So about 3 days to sort copies etc out, and rush you into the mags before 10th April.
pushing it!
bryan35 said:
my friend who actually works for a SCP informs me that they have software now that keeps a track of where they are re the 6 month period, and admits that in the 'old days' keeping quiet meant that 'quite a few' lots of paperwork just went in the bin.
Not so now, big red 24 point bold underlined fonts appear on the screen.
that said, considering the huge number of fines and limited number of staff, they are going to be pushing it.
You don't need to officially reply yet, which means they'll get the 'elect for court' on lets say 28th March. You can then ask to see the evidence against you, and I believe that they have to supply that AT LEAST 7 days before the court date.
The absolute last day for court would be Monday 10th April, so they must give you photos/video etc on or before Monday 3rd april.
Forget the weekend, it would need sorting on or before Friday 31st March.
So about 3 days to sort copies etc out, and rush you into the mags before 10th April.
pushing it!
Not quite, bryan35...If you have quoted your friend from the SCP correctly then it demonstrates a fairly fundamental lack of understanding of UK law on his part...
'Timeout' refers to the laying of an information with the court, NOT when an alleged offender has to appear before the court..
Process is -
an 'information' is laid with the court within 6 months of alleged offence.
summons issued to defendant, typically a few weeks later but can be much longer.
defendant appears before the court, possibly months / years after the alleged offence.
The 7 days you mention refers to the rules of disclosure of evidence prior to trial which, as pointed out above, could be months after the 6 month 'timeout' period had expired...
Dwight VanDriver said:
Are SCP's that dumb SS2 that having a file open they do not put a marker on it with date of limitation on proceedings on it so that when it approaches they can lay an information in time?
Honestly ?? There are good 'uns and bad 'uns in every 'job' but, as a collective, they do not come across as the sharpest tools in the box, IMO...
The point of my response to PEVO was that time could be on his side here. With one short extension to the 28 day period, he can achieve timeout for speeding AND comply with his legal obligations under S.172.
I did comment that there is a risk that the SCP could instigate proceedings for failure to furnish and explained the likely penalties for such a conviction.
My point of not flagging oneself for special attention is to minimize the risk of the SCP commencing these proceedings immediately after the 28 day response period has elapsed. If they think the accused is being 'helpful', then my opinion is that they are more likely to offer a 7 day extension and send the photos.. Job done for PEVO..
If they think the accused is trying it on, then not unreasonable to assume SCP is more likely to get paperwork to court forthwith..
Dwight VanDriver said:
When one of my gang were after a miscreant in order that when enquires were completed after time I took the precaution of having informations laid for the offences before hand so that they did not escape prosecution. Summons could then be taken out at leisure.
All with justifiable 'probable cause', I trust
[hypothetically]
PEVO is given 7 day extension
PEVO responds in time to S.172 request but more than 6 months after speeding offence.
PEVO receives a summons for speeding and finds the information was laid BEFORE the SCP received his S.172 response...
Wouldn't there now exist a 'probable cause' issue for the instigation of proceedings for speeding BEFORE the identity of the driver was known ?
Middleton_vs_Bath said:
Unless and until he admits being the driver of the vehicle in respect of which the section 172(2)(b) notice refers, he will not be charged with speeding.
>> Edited by SS2. on Wednesday 1st March 21:29
Dwight VanDriver said:
Are SCP's that dumb SS2 that having a file open they do not put a marker on it with date of limitation on proceedings on it so that when it approaches they can lay an information in time?
When one of my gang were after a miscreant in order that when enquires were completed after time I took the precaution of having informations laid for the offences before hand so that they did not escape prosecution. Summons could then be taken out at leisure.
dvd
Ahh, but DVD, who are they going to prosecute for speeding if they have no driver details within the six months? This should time out. The naming the driver can be eked out to time out the speeding without laying oneself open for prosecution under failing to name provided you are careful and submit requests (recorded delivery) within a reasonable time.
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